Diversity and Transformation in the Print Media Indaba: Day 1

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Communications and Digital Technologies

21 September 2011
Chairperson: Mr S Kholwane (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee hosted a Communications Indaba on transformation in the print media, during which several stakeholders made submissions to the Committee.

The Association of Independent Publishers (AIP) queried the rationale for the Indaba, since it felt that there was a lack of direct relevance in the Indaba between journalistic and media freedom issues and ownership issues. These two areas were mutually exclusive and needed to be discussed separately. The AIP was of the view that the sustainability of grassroots newspaper organisations should receive high priority in the Committee’s agenda. It noted the need to draft a charter that would address grassroots organisations specifically, with a view to transforming the sector. AIP also called for a serious review of the Media Development and Diversity Agency and its funding structures, as that Agency could not effectively carry out its job, because of serious underfunding.  AIP called for a review of the government line on advertising and expenditure, as most of its R1 billion budget was used for advertising at major media houses, and there needed to be more fairness in this allocation.

The Right2Know campaign registered its objection to the manner in which the Media Indaba had been organised and the poor communication on the focus of the conference. There was a need for public inclusiveness if the Indaba was to be effective. South Africa’s community media operated in a complex environment, and community papers should have the necessary space to operate. They formed a critical link in the democratic system, facilitating dialogue, and enabling social change to emerge from the grass roots and reach national and international stakeholders. Community media also provided citizens with an avenue to exercise their constitutional rights to freedom of expression and access to information, as well as serving as a conduit to hold elected officials and public servants accountable. Both print and broadcast projects were primarily dependant on advertising for their income. Many projects were located in communities that had limited consumer power and thus did not represent attractive markets to private sector advertisers. Advertising agencies, responsible for the ad-spend of large corporations, perceived community media projects as ineffective vehicles for advertising, due to their large number, small footprints, and sometimes poor administration. Editorial
independence of media projects was compromised, as they would be prepared to broadcast or publish anything coupled with sponsorship. If a Media Appeals Tribunal was introduced in South Africa, it would serve to restrict freedom of expression, media freedom and democracy, as seen elsewhere in Africa. Right2Know suggested that the media could be made more accountable to the public, and more responsible, without draconian statutory regulation. Only 68 out of 196 countries surveyed by the Freedom House report were rated as having an entirely free press, and only Mali and Ghana had this rating in Africa.

The Competition Commission identified several concerns relating to the ability of small and/or historically disadvantaged newspapers to compete effectively. Most concerns related to the exclusionary behaviour, through abuse of dominance, against community news, and an investigation was ongoing against Media 24 for predatory pricing. Other strategic barriers threatening viability of community newspapers included exclusion from the “golden hour” printing slots (This Day), bundling, and attracting away advertisers, a key revenue source. The Commission suggested the need for merger control to prevent increased concentration in the sectors. Competition in the provision of information to the public sector was still dominated by few large vertically-integrated (printing, publishing and distribution) media houses. Barriers affecting new entry and the expansion of emerging enterprises were described. Increased printing capacity was needed by both private and public interventions, as well as support for community newspapers in different languages, in remote areas, and for independent publishers. A deeper understanding of the competition dynamics in print media was also required.

Members asked whether skills management took place at a managerial level in the print industry, and what efforts were
being made to assist small organisations in the print industry. They asked to what extent smaller papers were being supported financially. Some members commented that the newspaper industry was a business like any other, and should be looked at in that light. Members asked what could be done to address the dominance of certain conglomerates in the media industry and what regulatory measures had been taken in other countries to prevent such dominance. They wondered whether the Media Development and Diversity Agency was doing enough to assist media transformation, and whether the Competition Commission took a proactive stance on anti-competitive behaviour or acted only on complaints

The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA) noted that although its mandate did not necessary include print media, it was expected to regulate cross-control matters, and was seeking a Memorandum of Understanding with the Media, Development and Diversity Agency (MDAA). Print media was quickly invading the electronic space, with most being found on line. The broadcasting sector was serious about empowerment, but the 20% ownership could be redebated. The regulatory framework was explained, and the ownership trends were outlined. Members asked if ICASA could play a role in encouraging community newspapers and radio, and noted the convergence of the space. 

The Eastern Cape Community Media Forum said there were still many challenges to transformation. The large media houses tended to cater for the metropolitan areas, reporting little about the smaller towns, and it was suggested that the print media should have more input from community members, perhaps via their Boards. It suggested that it would be necessary to promote other official languages, and to give more support to the MDDA. Rural media houses also had to be capacitated, with finance, recruitment and training. It would be necessary for them to get the support of provincial and local government. Members asked about participation from local authorities, what advertising support was obtained, and the nature of MDDA support. They also asked exactly how communities should become more involved, and how a young person wishing to open a newspaper should be assisted. Members asked about the languages used, suggesting that since more youth tended to use the language of their education, perhaps there was a lessening need for media in several languages.

Media Monitoring Africa noted that its aim was to build a responsible media that engaged in Africa, and said that it had conducted a lot of studies around media coverage on various topics. It challenged assumptions that the print media and / or government were not acting always for the public good, and said that there was useful engagement on a number of fronts. Concerns were expressed about the limited time to prepare for this indaba, and the limited number of invitations issued, and it urged that good quality consultation, with sufficient time and with a sufficient number of people, should be held. The media could always strive to improve. There were now more than 200 independent publications, with African language media growing significantly, so there was significant development. Members enquired whether more funding would help MDDA, asked about the trends in readership, noted efforts by the media to support education, and asked about the apparent slant to urban and elite readers.

The Kwa Zulu Natal Commercial Publishers Forum represented eight monthly, isi-Zulu publications in KwaZulu Natal, and was formed with the aim of sourcing advertising revenue for independent media. It had been quite successful, particularly in forming relationships with the Provincial government, generating R1 million of advertising revenue. The eight papers carried a broad spectrum of news, and had opened up business opportunities for young media entrepreneurs. However, the trends showed that many emerging newspapers would be forced to close, bought out, or have their best staff poached by bigger players, and it urged that the larger groups had nothing to fear from community papers, because their focus was so different. Other solutions might be to capitalise diversity. Transformation was needed in attitudes, and at an economic and government level.

Members asked to be sent examples of smaller media who had been forced to close, with their publications, and asked about the success of the presenter’s own publication, how the eight publications in the Forum were selected, how they had empowered others, and how they had been successful. Members were interested in the relationships with local government as well as provincial government, and asked how the Competition Commission could perhaps be more effective.

The MICT Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA) outlined the work of the SETAs, the distinction between the different types of ownership in the sector, and set out some statistics distilled from reports over the years about the viewership and readership, universal access, and employment in the sector. The presenter suggested that there was a need to move to development of the space, rather than a transactional approach. He outlined the levels of skills that could be used in the sector, and suggested a need to focus more on school leavers. Although many companies subscribed in theory to principles of employment equity, they were not always putting it into practice, particularly for the disabled. Barriers to entry in the sector included a perceived lack of skills, less than 100% uptake of interns after training, inadequate funding of new ventures, and inadequate enforcement and monitoring of employment equity initiatives against the Workplace Skills Plans. More partnerships were needed to utilise the funding effectively, and more training, research and better funding models were needed. Members asked about the spread of the advertising and ICT and media in the SETA, asked about assistance to small companies, asked about the database of graduate skills, and noted the need for proper checks on what was paid back to employers, and how it was used. The bursary allocation was questioned, as well as the principle of assisting people with higher qualifications rather than helping them to find real jobs. The barriers to the disabled were described.

Meeting report

Indaba on Transformation in the Print Media
The Chairperson stated that the Indaba had been established to get different views on ownership and transformation in print media, as well as to address the issue of anti-competitive behaviour in the print industry. It was not intended to explore issues of media accountability or the proposed media tribunal in the Protection of Personal Information Bill.

Association of Independent Publishers Presentation
Ms Louise Vale, Executive Director, Association of Independent Publishers, thanked the Committee for the opportunity to present its views. The Association of Independent Publishers (AIP) was a national association that sought to advance the interests of local, grassroots independent newspapers. There were 230 AIP members nationally, who were small, community-based, grassroots publishers owned by local community members.

The AIP queried the rationale for the Indaba, saying that there was a lack of direct relevance in the Indaba between journalistic and media freedom issues and ownership issues. These two areas were mutually exclusive and needed to be discussed separately.

The AIP was of the view that the sustainability of grassroots newspaper organisations was important and should be afforded high priority in the Committee’s agenda. The landscape of grassroots press had been eroded significantly since 2008. The difficult environment in the industry had seen the ending of 43 publications. There were limited funds from advertising, unfair competition practices by major publications, and a lack of in business management skills in the sector. The AIP highlighted that most of its members did not have to conform to the Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) Act and the Codes of Good Practice as they were classified as micro-enterprises with turnovers of less than R5 million a year. That needed to be addressed and changed urgently. AIP felt there was a need to draft  a charter that would address grassroots organisations, specifically with a view to transforming the sector. The AIP called for a serious review of the Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) and its funding structures, as the Agency was seriously under funded and could not carry out its job effectively. It also called for a review of the government policy on advertising, pointing out that most of its R1 billion budget for advertising was spent at major media houses. Advertising represented a key part of funding for newspapers and there needed to be fairness in how government advertising was allocated.

Discussion
Ms J Kilian (COPE) asked whether skills development was taking place at a managerial level in the print industry. She asked what efforts were being made to assist small organisations in the print industry. She asked what extent smaller papers were being supported financially.

Ms Vale responded that the Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) was best place to answer the question on training and skills development at a managerial level. She noted that increased advertising would be beneficial for training, because with increased revenue came increased power to fund training. Obtaining funding was the major challenge for small organisations. Printing costs were the biggest cost driver, with wage costs closely following. Advertising funding varied, but national and provincial government funding of small newspapers was rare. The long term sustainability of small newspapers remained a dominant issue, and would remain an issue for the foreseeable future.

Ms W Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC) asked what role the AIP played in the print industry. She asked how many female journalists there were in the industry. She asked how the AIP could assist people in rural areas to get access to electronic media.

Ms Vale responded that the AIP was a national association which sought to advance the interests of local, grassroots independent newspapers. The AIP did not have statistics on how many female journalists were working at grassroots newspapers, but this information could be obtained and sent to the Committee. Access to electronic media in remote and rural areas remained a challenge, but that could be mitigated with the growth and spread of small community newspapers.

Mr N Van Der Berg (DA) commented that the newspaper industry was a business like any other and should be looked at in that light.

The Chairperson commented that the Government Communication and Information Systems (GCIS) had stated that it spent 40% of its budget on funding small newspaper organisations, and questioned whether that seemed correct. He noted the importance of government publications such as Vuk’uzenzela.

Ms Vale responded that the problem with GCIS funding local newspaper organisations was that the definition of what constituted a “local organisation” was vague. The distribution and creation of Vuk’uzenzela was both good and bad. There could be arguments in favour of the existence of a government publication that reached out to people who would not ordinarily have access to newspapers, but there could equally be arguments against government taking the space that could be  better utilised by an independent small newspaper.

Right to Know Campaign presentation
Prof Jane Duncan and Prof Julia Reid, representatives of the Right2Know campaign, presented their submission to the Committee.

Prof Duncan expressed her organisation’s objection to the manner in which the Media Indaba had been organised, and the poor communication on the focus of the conference. There was a need for public inclusiveness if the Indaba was to be effective. South Africa’s community media operated in a complex environment, and in that environment it was important for community papers to have the necessary space to operate. They formed a critical link in the democratic system, facilitating dialogue, and enabling social change to emerge from the grass roots and reach national and international stakeholders. Community media also provided citizens with an avenue to exercise their constitutional rights to freedom of expression and access to information, as well as serving as a conduit to hold elected officials and public servants accountable.

Media projects had shown remarkable tenacity, sustaining themselves and growing in numbers over the last 17 years, and showing innovations in the areas of governance, management, resource mobilisation, and programming. Projects – both print and broadcast - were primarily dependant on advertising for their income. Many projects were located in communities that had limited consumer power and thus did not represent attractive markets to private sector advertisers. Advertising agencies, responsible for the ad-spend of large corporations, perceived community media projects as ineffective vehicles for advertising, due to their large number, small footprints, and sometimes poor administration. The public sector, although it was the largest contributor to advertising and programme sponsorship, and civil society either failed to realise the importance of communication to their programmes, or choose to spend their communication resources in traditional forms of mass media.

The dependence on the whims of individuals controlling advertising budgets (both private and
Government) severely impacted on the editorial independence of media projects, as they were loath to offend those with money, and were thus prepared to broadcast or publish almost any content that came with sponsorship. Because of the general under-funding of media projects, these projects lacked the funds to secure and retain the necessary skills and other resources to produce quality programming and facilitate community participation. The establishment of the Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) in 2005 had created a conduit to facilitate access to State and private sector resources for media projects. However the MDDA was born within the frame of neo-liberal State policy and the Agency remained woefully under-funded, being unable to fund even the core running costs of media projects, and it was controlled by a Board dominated by representatives of the private media sector and government. The community print sector remained unprotected from competition. Many print projects that had demonstrated some success were either bought by large media houses or faced unfair competition as the big houses launched competing titles with syndicate editorial and advertising, or offered grossly reduced rates to attract advertisers. This resulted in the community print sector becoming virtually nonexistent, comprising only a handful of niche publications and some struggling community newspapers that published intermittently.

Prof Reid focused on media accountability and the proposed establishment of a media tribunal. She stated that the Right2Know campaign held the view that if a Media Appeals Tribunal was to be introduced in South Africa, it would significantly close off freedom of expression, media freedom and therefore democracy, as had occurred in a number of other African countries post-colonialism. The Right2Know believed that there were ways to make the media more accountable to the public, and more responsible in its reporting, without having to resort to draconian statutory regulation. If the current system of press self-regulation was changed to one of co-regulation, statutory or even “independent” regulation, there was a danger of political interference in the regulatory mechanism by the ruling political party.

Right2Know highlighted that the Freedom House Report on press freedom had highlighted that of the 196 countries surveyed, only 68 countries, and only two in Africa (Mali and Ghana) scored the rating of having an entirely free press in 2011. The fact that South Africa was not rated as having a free press was alarming because South Africa prided itself on being “a shining beacon of democracy” in Africa.

Discussion
Ms Kilian stated that members of the Committee had not been aware of the Media Indaba until the previous night. She apologised, on behalf of her party, for the poor organisation and lack of clarity on the agenda. She commented that there was a need to have a common understanding of what press transformation was. The focus was on ownership in the industry, since dominance in the media by any one group endangered democracy. People needed to be allowed to express their displeasure. She asked what could be done to address the dominance of certain conglomerates in the media industry, and what regulatory measures had been taken in other countries to prevent such dominance. She asked how all eleven official languages could be encompassed in addressing the issue of dominance.

Prof Duncan replied that she did not have a comprehensive answer on what could be done to limit dominance in the print industry, but this highlighted the need to have initiatives such as the Indaba, to try to come up with strategies. She spoke of permissible interventions in democracies and said that the introduction of government subsidies in the print industry may be beneficial in stopping media dominance. She highlighted the example of Sweden, which had two forms of subsidies. There, direct subsidies came from its Parliament, and indirect subsidies focused on funding secondary or community newspapers. There was a lot to learn from that system, as small newspapers still struggled with funding and access to printing. Regulation of ownership could be another approach in trying to stem dominance in the industry, although this was more controversial, as it might infringe on freedom of expression. It was important to focus on measuring diversity, prior to assessing what to do about dominance in the industry. France had placed a limit on the concentration of newspapers and provided an example of controlling dominance. She agreed that it would be a challenge to provide a media inclusive of all the national languages, and this would require debate and further interaction.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked whether the MDDA was doing enough to assist media transformation. She commented that community newspapers needed to be promoted, and asked what the Right2Know was doing to assist community newspapers. She agreed that there was lack of freedom of expression in South Africa, as opinions were dictated by those who owned media houses. She said that the voiceless were unprotected and someone needed to fill that void.  

Prof Duncan replied that the MDDA’s impact and effectiveness needed to be reviewed. The role of that organisation needed to be broadened and strengthened, as it was a vital tool in addressing some of the issues under discussion. The lack of formal funding for it had to be addressed. However, more time was needed if the MDDA issues and media transformation were to be interrogated properly.

Mr K Zondi (IFP) asked how the Right2Know would have liked to see the Indaba organised, and which other organisations it would have liked to have been invited to the Indaba.

Prof Duncan responded that small and community newspapers should have been invited to the Indaba to share their experiences. More time for the Indaba should have been provided, so as to accommodate a wider viewpoint and audience.

The Chairperson commented that the funding model for the MDDA, which was essentially a “pay as you go” model, was not ideal and presented serious challenges to the work done by that organisation. The Committee did interact with community and grassroots newspaper organisations in the conduct of its oversight work.

Mr Van Der Bergh asked what should be done to address the drop in the press freedom rating in South Africa, which was unfortunate.

Prof Reid responded that Freedom House had dropped this freedom rating owing to some of the recent events in the country relating to media freedom, and the proposed Media Tribunal.

Competition Commission of South Africa presentation
Mr Oliver Josie, Division Manager: Cartels, and Mr Hardin Ratshisusu, Adviser to the Deputy Commissioner of the Competition Commission, noted that the Competition Commission (CCSA) had the power to monitor merger control, which involved preventing concentration. Its enforcement powers included investigation and prosecution of anti-competitive behaviour, such as price fixing, or abuse of dominance. The CCSA reported to the Competition Tribunal, which had the power to adjudicate on issues investigated and recommended upon by the CCSA .

They highlighted the number of mergers that had occurred in the print industry. Most involved acquisitions by Media 24, mainly aimed at increasing previously acquired stakes. The CCSA had identified several concerns relating to the ability of small newspapers, and/or those owned by historically disadvantaged individuals (HDIs) to compete effectively. Most concerns related to the exclusionary behaviour (through abuse of dominance), mainly found in the community newspaper segment. An investigation against Media 24 on predatory pricing was almost concluded. Various strategic reactions that impeded entry could include predatory pricing to assert dominance, exclusion from the “golden hour” printing slots (which had meant that This Day could not compete), and bundling. All these threatened the viability of small community newspapers and their ability to attract advertising, which was a key revenue source.

The CCSA had highlighted some steps that needed to be taken to address issues in the industry. These included the need for merger control to prevent increased concentration in the sectors, and allow for entry of new players. Competition in the provision of information to the public sector was still dominated by few large vertically integrated media houses (who attended to printing, publishing and distribution). There were barriers affecting new entry and the expansion of emerging enterprises. There were no signs of effective competition between mainstream media houses (mainly at printing, advertising and distribution levels), and independent community newspapers.

Lack of effective competition and diversity in media had adverse effects on issues that affected the public, such as content plurality, and development of niche newspapers at national, regional and local levels that catered for different communities’ interest. There needed to be even coverage of the news across the nine provinces. Lack of competition also led to denial of educational opportunities. Increased capacity in printing was needed, through both private and public interventions. There needed to be support for community newspapers, especially those in remote areas catering for different language needs, and for independent publishers. There further needed to be a deeper understanding of the competition dynamics in print media, as highlighted by investigations into this sector.

Discussion
The Chairperson commented that the presentation had been useful but lacked detail as to exactly what the CCSA could do to limit dominance in the industry. There had been little regulatory progress since the ComTask report on transformation in the industry was produced in 1996. That report had also touched on anti-competitive behaviour in the industry.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked what predatory pricing schemes were. She asked what fines the CCSA had given thus far for anti-competitive behaviour in the industry.

Mr Josie responded that predatory pricing occurred when a dominant firm wanted to price its competitors out of the market or industry, and set printing prices higher than its competitors could afford. The CCSA only recommended fines, but the Competition Tribunal could accept or reject those recommendations. Fines could be calculated as being 10% of the annual turnover of an offending company.

Mr Zondi commented that “predatory” aptly described the behaviour of dominant organisations in the print industry. He asked whether the CCSA took a proactive stance against anti-competitive behaviour, or whether it acted only on complaints. He asked about the outcomes of cases that the CCSA had investigated.

Mr Josie replied that the CCSA did a lot of proactive work, although it was still waiting on amendments to its founding legislation to grant it more power. The CCSA did research into various markets and looked into areas where there seemed to be a case to be answered. The CCSA strongly advised offending companies to cease their anti-competitive behaviour, or face the consequences of an investigation and possible fine.

Ms Kilian asked what the CCSA had done to get a better understanding of the print industry. He asked why cases took so long to resolve.   

Mr Ratshisusu replied that the CCSA was working with stakeholders to understand trends in the industry and was applying international best practice from other countries to its practices in the industry.

Mr Josie replied that cases took a long time until resolution, because of the number and complexity of investigations needed prior to a case being prosecuted. There was a high volume of cases to be investigated, and the CCSA had capacity problems.
 
Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA): Transformation of the Media: Cross Ownership issues
Dr Stephen Mncube, Chairperson, ICASA, said that he was happy that context was being given to the media matters. There were journalists observing this process, and they could contribute to the unfolding drama, but it was unfortunate that an active role had not been taken by parties in the past. ICASA’s mandate did not include print media necessarily, but it was expected to regulate cross-control matters, so media still fell into certain domains that it regulated. For this reason it was trying to solicit a Memorandum of Agreement with the Media, Development and Diversity Agency (MDAA). Print media was quickly invading the electronic space, with most being found on line. ICASA’s responsibility pertained largely to electronic issues.

Ms Miki Ndhlovu, Councillor, ICASA, noted that the broadcasting sector was one of the first to be serious about reform and putting empowerment at the centre. All commercial radio stations licensed had to prove some partnerships with historically disadvantaged individuals (HDI). Most of the licenses had, however, since changed in ownership, which was unfortunate, because many of those changes were done for financial reasons. The findings document of ICASA was available on its website, and ICASA was checking what the industry had said, with a view to determining what needed to be changed. It thought that the 20% ownership could probably be increased.

She outlined the evolution of the broadcasting sector after 1994. This was informed by the Triple Enquiry Report and the Constitution’s requirement to look at public interest, and it embarked on a process of privatising the SABC radio stations, who were sold to private operators. It licensed eight commercial radio stations and the first free to air commercial television.

She explained the regulatory framework, noting that section 64 of the Electronic Communications Act (ECA) had to do with foreign control. She personally thought it might be time for the broadcasting sector to get foreign investment, although not foreign control. There would have to be a number of conditions attached to this. Section 65 was about control of commercial broadcasting services. There were no radio stations operating in the medium wave band, although the Act still spoke of the AM band. Exemptions may be granted, but only on good cause. Section 66 dealt with financial control and cross-media control of commercial broadcasting stations. The print media had never exceeded what had been prescribed and regulated.

She outlined the ownership trends (see attached presentation for full details), for African Media Entertainment Limited, New Africa Media Investments, Sabido Investments, Mine Workers Investment Company, Kagiso Media, MSG Afrika Holdings, and Naspers. She tabled a list of who had been licensed so far in Television (Mnet and eTV, with subscription services Multichoice and ODM), and Sound / Radio (where there were 13 licensed commercial radio stations. ICASA was in the process of licensing other commercial radio stations in Cape Town and Gauteng. There were no commercial stations in Northern Cape. She outlined the shareholders for the companies licensed.

She concluded that ICASA had done much work in implementing the provisions of the relevant legislation, resulting in diverse licensing, and was implementing the ownership and control regulatory frameworks.

Discussion
Ms J Kilian (COPE) asked what the purpose was of evaluating the electronic media at the moment, seeing that this meeting was discussing the print media.

Ms Ndhlovu said that section 66 was relevant, because it governed the situation if a newspaper dominant in one area set up a television or radio in the same area. ICASA could not say that AVUSA or Media 24 owned a radio station at this time, and even if they did, they must not do so in a manner that they “controlled” the media. She noted that for this reason it was necessary to cross-check.

Ms W Newhoudt Druchen (ANC) asked what role ICASA could play to encourage community newspapers to be sustainable. She also noted that the Competition Commission had cited a number of different complaints and hoped that it could play a bigger role in the future. She asked what protection and assistance could be offered by ICASA to protect community radios and newspapers.

Ms Ndhlovu said that the challenges faced by community radio and newspapers were similar. ICASA realised that it could not deal with some matters alone, but had to partner with others. It was possible that community stations and media could form some partnerships.

The Chairperson noted that the space was converging. If South Africa looked properly to the future, it could determine what structures it would need to deal with the challenges.

Dr Mncube said that the MDDA needed to revisit the Report produced some years ago. ICASA had found that radio penetration was very important in community areas and wherever print and radio media could be housed together, they could carry a lot of weight. He thought that it was necessary to have a MoU, as there was bound to be convergence, and both areas did not have money to sustain themselves. There were 95 submissions made leading up to the Report, and he urged that the parties should not re-invent the wheel but look again at some of the suggestions. ICASA had suggested that the Department of Communications (DOC) should set up a special fund for radio. Many radio stations were not currently able to pay their licence fees.

Eastern Cape Community Media Forum submission
Ms Thembisa Mbija-Makasi, Representative, Eastern Cape Community Print Media, noted that the print media had become one of the most powerful forces in human society, spreading across every field. Democracy would not have been possible without printed newspapers to provide the daily information that citizens needed.

There had been much development in the broadcasting and media spaces since 1994, including legislative changes. There were still transformation challenges. Information in newspapers was intended to create awareness and they had to cater for the wide diversity of their readers. However, the major newspapers tended to cater for the metropolitan areas and little was reported about the smaller towns. Many of the well-established and sustainable media houses were still run by elites. Print media should be controlled by community members and individuals with a better understanding of a particular environment, although she did state that regulation would also be necessary, to achieve a balance and to avoid domination.

This structure should inform the relevant language of the media, and promote the use of other official languages. It would also create an enabling environment for media development and diversity and self-empowerment. It would increase access to media diversity, and ensure that marginalised sectors were heard and seen. It would promote a new culture of an informed society able to make informed decisions in a modern world. Many newspapers were still predominantly in English or Afrikaans. The diminishing use of other languages, and lessening of cultural groups were a great concern. Development agencies such as MDDA needed more support, to work primarily with inadequately serviced rural communities. The work of the MDDA in the Eastern Cape was appreciated, but more had to be done.

There was a dire need to capacitate rural media houses. Newspapers had to be evaluated to see how they created or increased awareness. Capacity building interventions such as recruiting and training more social journalists, managers and editors had to be prioritised. This would create more employment for journalists, and, in turn, enhance the standard of journalism. She thanked the Eastern Cape government for supporting smaller print media in the placing of government notices, and said that if other sectors followed suit it would help the sustainability of the grassroots projects. She also extended thanks to the Committee for visiting this small project in Eastern Cape, and providing this platform to voice its challenges.

Discussion
Ms Kilian asked if there had been any positive participation from local authorities, such as placing their advertisements in the local community newspapers.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen echoed this question, and wanted to know if there was any other work being done with local government, and what advertising support was given. She also asked what the community media would like to see in the future.

Ms Mbija-Makasi explained that there was not much advertising coming through from local government, despite approaches to the municipality to do so. This was something that was found across all municipalities.

Ms Kilian also asked what the nature of MDDA support was, whether there were specific subsidies, and how the support was utilised in Eastern Cape.

Ms Mbija-Makasi said that MDDA had assisted the local papers to get off the ground, and this included providing a mentor who assisted with the drawing of the business plan, and providing a computer and printing materials to allow the office to work professionally. There was also training by way of workshops, on different topics.

Mr K Zondi (IFP) noted that the established newspapers tended to cater for the metropolitan areas only, with little being reported in smaller towns. He noted that other presentations had pointed out that there were difficulties, particularly financial problems, that militated against the objective of trying to transform the established print media. He asked what might help to ensure that communities could become involved in ownerships of established media houses, or asked if the presenter was referring to representation on boards.

Ms Mbija-Makasi said that it would useful if Board members could be drawn from communities directly, perhaps those who had worked in the media sector, who could then add value to the Board. In some cases, radio stations and community papers failed because the people on their Board were not properly in touch with the situation on the ground.

Mr Zondi thought that the substance of the suggestion was that dominant newspapers needed to be infused with other community people, but this answer perhaps also suggested that the dominant newspapers needed to have better outreach to prevent them becoming too elitist. He asked how, for instance, in Eastern Cape, members of the community could be effectively represented on the Boards, or how poor members of the community could acquire shares in thee companies.

Ms Mbija-Makasi said that if local people benefited from the service offered by the large newspapers, there was no objection to having them continue. However, she would not like to see he position where no benefit came to the local communities.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked if the presenter was a journalist, or owner.

Ms Mbija-Makasi said that she was the owner and founder of an independent newspaper operating in a municipality and was Secretary of the Eastern Cape Corporation of other small media.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen noted that several presentations earlier had outlined the challenges. She posed a hypothetical scenario of a journalist who had recently graduated, and wanted to return to his/her own area to set up an independent newspaper. She asked if that person might be able to apply to the MDDA for funding, (although she noted that this might last for one year only), or if it might be possible for that person to approach the National Youth Development Association, for assistance in drafting a business plan. She asked how the challenges could be overcome.

Ms Mbija-Makasi responded that it would be useful to run community projects in tandem with other newspapers operating in local government areas. She again stressed that it would be necessary to have sufficient controls to avoid too much power being placed in some hands only. It would be useful to assist those who wanted to form new projects in places where there were no existing projects. There were many good ideas out in the marketplace, and it was necessary to find a way to assist them.

Ms Kilian asked if it would be feasible to extend the languages used in the media, particularly since most of the youth were now tending to use the major languages in which they had been educated.

Ms Mbija-Makasi said that it was necessary to try to preserve cultures and it was necessary to take youth back and still try to marry their modern education with respect for their roots.

Ms Kilian asked if it would be proper for government to select and assist some newspapers, or whether government should rather try to strengthen the industry to ensure that voices were heard from communities.

Ms Mbija-Makasi did not think that selection of some media companies would be a good solution. However, it might be useful for government to intervene and try to assist them to meet the same goals and objectives, and strengthen that particular establishment.

Media Monitoring Africa
Mr William Bird, Director, Media Monitoring Africa, noted that Media Monitoring Africa (MMA) had grown out of the Media Monitoring Project. Its aim was to build a responsible media that engaged in Africa. MMA did a lot of media monitoring, including into questions of race, elections, gender, children and HIV, geared towards trying to build and improve the quality of overall media contributions.

He outlined a number of submissions, made to ICASA and to this Committee, including those on advertising. He noted that the Constitution did have a strong human rights protection. It was necessary to correct and alter incorrect assumptions that the print media and / or Government were not concerned with the public good. He was delighted to note the public participation in democracy and said that there was useful engagement on the hate speech ruling, particularly in Media Freedom Week.

Mr Bird noted his concerns about the very short notice given to presenters about this indaba, and the fact that a limited number of invitations were submitted, and that there seemed to be a lack of consultation. These issues were important because they generated conspiracy theories, and a perception that Parliament wanted to limit media freedom. That did not assist anyone. These concerns also flew in the fact of the considered and consultative approach by the Department of Communication. The Committee and ICASA had expressed their concerns about the comprehensive review of the regulator, and he saw this presentation as the start of a far more comprehensive debate on these issues. He urged that consultation of a good quality should be held, which meant that it should not be rushed, and should be comprehensive, involving key stakeholders and all citizens. This would promote entrenchment and realisation of the rights in the Constitution.

Ms Carol Netshifhefhe, Researcher: Policy Unit, Media Monitoring Africa, noted that there had been significant change and transformation, but perhaps the South African media was not the best in the world, and could always strive to do better. The media in South Africa had changed, becoming more relevant to the needs of young people. Transformation must be seen as ongoing, including efforts such as these debates and consultations. Pressure and incentives from civil society were evident, to promote change. On the positive side, there had been significant positive shifts to cover gender and gender-based violence, race, racism and xenophobia. There were also new newspapers coming though and more than 200 independent publications. African languages media were growing significantly, and there were many efforts from government. Even if not everything had positive results, the MDDA and government had achieved significant and progressive movement in the media. She noted that MMA looked forward to participating in more comprehensive process, and was willing to provide research, detailed input and assistance.

Mr Bird urged everyone to support Media Freedom Week on Twitter. There were overwhelming changes, despite the difficulties and challenges.

Discussion
The Chairperson said that it was a pity that Parliament was not sitting and could have highlighted Media Freedom Week in the House.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen agreed. She noted that more new newspapers were coming into the market but the biggest concern was that they were not sustainable. She asked if MDDA needed more funding,

Ms Kilian asked if there had been research into trends on the African Continent about readership of daily and weekly newspapers. At the moment, it was felt that the news was not penetrating deeply enough into society, which posed a risk to democracy. She asked what could be learned from other countries who had managed to get increased readership and reach of their media.

Mr Bird said that generally, across the world, readership was declining, primarily because of electronic media and the fact that information was available from a range of other sources. One of the countries who challenged that was India, because of the sheer scale and size. There were a number of younger readers, which was a positive trend. There did appear still to be potential for growth of readership. He noted that a publication such as the “Daily Sun” was young, but had managed to capture a big market of young readers. Although not everyone liked its content, its impact must be understood. That paper did tell the stories of people in communities, which were not covered by other media, although it was driven by a large media house, who was better able to carry the risk that other smaller houses could not.

Mr Bird added that some countries would have more radio stations, and some would emphasise print media over radio. South Africa was reflecting the worldwide trends of moving to electronic media. The internet was an area of potential growth and transformation, particularly for smaller media houses. He suggested that in order to achieve true equality, more people needed to have access to “real” or non-Telkom broadband.

Mr Bird added that there were concerns about the quality of the education system, and obviously instilling a good ability to read and understand, as well as interest in current affairs, was important for future readership. The media had made some excellent contributions to education, through production of weekly supplements and educational supplements, and had made significant effort to assist students and young people. Possibly this had not gone far enough, but there were indications of improvement.

Mr Bird fully supported the MDDA and said that it had done a significant amount over the years with its small budget. It probably did not have enough funding, but most departments in the country could probably complain that they did not have enough funding.

Ms Kilian said that there had been some very useful comments about what was happening, but there were some significant shortcomings. She asked for comment on the statement that the media structure remained unfavourably slanted to the metropolitan areas, reporting for the elite and not reflecting the lives and concerns of rural communities, or women, or people with disabilities.

Ms Netshifhefhe responded that the mainstream media did focus on urban areas, and tended to sideline gender-related issues and children’s matters. She reported back on the MDA’s investigation into elections, noting that out of the 1 558 stories about local elections, only one had looked at the impact on children, and very few about the impact on gender. Prior to the elections, the MDA had tried to encourage a particular focus in respect of reporting.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked if MDA agreed that there was not enough freedom.

Ms Netshifhefhe said that the South African media was still one of the best media system in Africa and credit must be given to that.

Mr Bird added that, compared to other countries in the Southern African region, South Africa showed a very high level of freedom, which was protected from various levels, and that was something to be proud of.

Ms Kilian asked for comment on the effect of banning advertisements on alcohol.

Mr Bird said that when tobacco advertising was banned, there was organised and substantial resistance from the smoking industry. It had been found that most of the advertising had been supporting sporting codes, and it was known that this was targeting mostly young people, hence the move to ban advertising at this level.  He noted that a substantial part of the violence in South Africa was alcohol-related, including family violence. This made for a compelling argument to ban alcohol advertising. 

Kwa Zulu Natal Commercial Publishers Forum / Genuine Magazine
Ms Mbali Dhlomo, Editor and Founder, Genuine Magazine and Inthuko Newspapers, said that she was making this presentation as a representative and Board member of the KwaZulu Natal (KZN) Commercial Publishers Forum. She said that the province of KZN had produced a number of high-profile writers and journalists, editors and publishers, who were prepared to risk the cut-throat world of the media.

The KZN Commercial Publishers Forum was founded in 2008, with the aim of sourcing advertising revenue for the isi-Zulu community newspapers in KZN. There were eight publications affiliated to the Forum, although this was only a very small portion of the overall number of publications in indigenous languages in KZN. The Forum would accept more publications to become members. It had a good working relationship with provincial and national government and the private sector. In the past financial year R1 million of advertising revenue was generated for its eight community newspapers. The footprint covered all of KZN and the Forum created a unique platform for sharing relevant and specific news, No community newspaper was similar to the others and the a broad spectrum of news was carried. The emergence of these papers had opened up business opportunities for young media-preneurs eager to make their mark. This media diversity was, regrettably, sometimes overshadowed by lack of support from some houses that had led to the closure of several publications.

She elaborated on the challenges presented by the larger media houses. If a young person managed to start a newspaper in a township that had never before had such a publication, and this showed some success, it was very likely that within six months or so a larger media conglomerate would set up a competitive, well-resourced effort, and attract the advertisers across to the new paper. Alternatively, the large conglomerate would seek to buy out the smaller one, or even simply poach its most capable staff, including, perhaps, the founder, which would lead to the demise of the smaller publication. It was necessary to find solutions to this situation.

She suggested that some possible solutions might be to capitalise diversity, with financial resources being offered by all stakeholders, including government, the private sector, and mainstream media players. Some major print media players were contributing a percentage toward the MDDA, but this needed to be increased. The mainstream media players did not need to feel threatened, because the streams were flowing in different directions. Community print media aimed to fill a void that the mainstream would never fill, and for this reason, the mainstream players should not interfere with the smaller players by using their financial muscle.

Ms Dhlomo emphasised that transformation must take place at various levels. Firstly, there had to be transformation of the mind, with negative attitudes to community media changing. Secondly, serious economic transformation was needed. Advertising agencies needed to bring the community media on board, not ad hoc, but on a regular basis. Corporate companies had to be fair in their advertising distribution and level the playing fields. Officials in government needed to transform and recognise that it was usually the community papers who carried their message across, as often issues of rural, community and social development were disseminated by the very same publications that government officials would ignore. Community print media would never be successful if this transformation did not occur.

Ms Dhlomo encouraged every media player to breathe and grow and make its mark. All role players needed to support the efforts, and if that happened, print diversity would become a reality.

Discussion
Mr N van der Berg (DA) referred to the question of unfair play by major players, noting other comments earlier in the day to this effect. He asked for examples of where this had occurred, who the large player was, and when this had happened.

Ms Kilian noted that Competition Commission had also reported on complaints of take-overs.

Ms Dhlomo said that this happened quite often. In some townships, like Umlazi, a newspaper had launched about a month ago, while other publications were running, and it would use its financial resources to overpower the other publications. This was probably also happening in other provinces. She confirmed that she would send through to the Committee a copy of the new newspaper and the rival publications.

Ms Kilian asked for more information about the GENUINE magazine, and to what Ms Dhlomo had ascribed her success.

Ms Dhlomo noted that her company was registered in 1999 but the first edition of “GENUINE” was published in 2001. This publication aimed to highlight what was happening in KZN, in a more positive and educational way, although it did face challenges. She herself had attended to the publication until 2003, when she applied to the MDDA. Her application was approved, but because the funding was linked to capacity-building, she had followed that process. Print funding had been given in 2006. She herself was driven by resilience, and passion for the industry and her own publication.

Ms Kilian asked for more details on the eight publications in the Forum, asking if they were selected geographically, or were interest-driven, and also asked what languages were used. Ms Kilian noted that there was clearly proficiency in canvassing advertising revenue, but she asked to what extent the experiences in the Forum had empowered other community papers.

Ms Dhlomo noted that the Forum was formed in 2008, with the aim of sourcing revenue. Two people were delegated to run the Forum, and it had concentrated on looking for advertising revenue. From that time, the relationship with the Provincial Government of KZN had grown, through substantial investment of time and effort. All  eight of the publications in the Forum were based in KZN, but from different geographical regions, so that, broadly speaking, they were representative of the whole Province. All the papers were published in isi-Zulu and were monthly publications. The Forum would mentor other possible publishers, and could give advice, based on its own experience from various challenges, as well as advising if the new papers were on the right track. The aim of all was to get messages to communities who otherwise were hampered by lack of communication in their area.

Ms Kilian asked if the good relationships existed with the provincial departments, or the Government Communication and Information Systems (GCIS), and if job advertisements were placed in these papers. She also asked how the local authorities gave support, and, if they did not, how this might be overcome.

Ms Dhlomo stressed that most of the publications carried articles about projects happening in their areas, although they were not the mouthpiece of government. Most of the support from advertising came from the Premier’s Office. The Forum had made a formal presentation to the provincial government, and the advertisements were mostly diary advertisements; at the moment no posts were advertised, but the Forum was hoping that this could grow, as well as the publication of notices from local government.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen noted that the Competition Commission’s complaints dated back some years, and it seemed to take quite long to resolve. She asked Ms Dhlomo how she thought that the Competition Commission could be more effective and what type of solutions it could perhaps effectively put in place.

Ms Dhlomo said she did not have an answer on this. There were complaints and numerous challenges encountered on a daily basis. It would be ideal if the investigations could be speedily resolved so that people could go on with their work and their lives.

MICT Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA) briefing
Mr Oupa Mopaki, Chief Executive Officer, MICT Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA), noted that many of the issues in the first few slides had been outlined in other presentations. He noted that the his Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA) covered the media, information and communication technology industries. The media was currently categorised into Broadcast (radio and TV), Print (newspapers, magazines and Knock and Drop) and New Media (online, through internet and mobile phones). He said that the print media were covered by another SETA. He outlined the changes since 1994, on a social, political, economic level, and the country’s advantage level (see attached presentation for details).

He noted that there was a distinction between public ownerships, the SABC content and Sentech signal distribution. It was difficult to know exactly how much private ownership there was. There was both public control, and private players, both of whom operated in terms of the controlling legislation.

He noted that the SETA had distilled some information from annual reports submitted by companies, which included electronics, telecommunications and IT companies. There were about 1 113 managers, about 4 600 professionals, and 3 000 technicians employed in the sector. 59% were African, about 27% were white, 10% were coloured and 5% Indian. 47% were female and 53% were male. In the New Media sector, the occupational divisions were more or less the same. However, he noted that the largest numbers of employees were in the technicians sector, with more or less the same number of professionals and clerical workers. In this sector, 36% were female and 64% were male.

Most of the public entities covered the eleven official languages, but the private entities mostly used English and Afrikaans. Some information was available from the MDDA report on viewership and listenerships. There were about 11.1 million TV households in South Africa, and the SABC channels accounted for 69.3% of the TV audience, while eTV had about 22%. He said that universal access in the rural areas was poor, with many areas not having access to telephones, and experiencing challenges with TV sets.

In terms of capacity building strategies and problems, he noted that a new way of doing business had to be found. The SETA had to change its mindset and it had to influence stakeholders to follow suit. There was a need to move to space development, rather than the transactional approach. Companies were required to submit Workplace Skills Plans (WSPs). It was necessary to become a total partner with stakeholders and various options had been proposed. In the MICT space, not everyone needed high level skills. He noted that a huge number of matriculants left the school system, and only about 15% made their way to tertiary level studies, with only about 8% being able to complete their degrees or diplomas. Matriculants would have “entry-level” skills (NQF Level 3) and could therefore enter this sector, through a one-year learnership programme, to do the academic training, and their workplace training could be simulated. There could be cooperation with the Further Education and Training (FET) colleges on this, and cooperation with he universities of Technology and ICT companies (for internships) for intermediate skills, whilst cooperation with universities and Research and Development (R&D) units should take place for high level skills. If people were properly skilled, they could also work elsewhere in the global community.

The SETA must also promote employment equity, equal opportunity for the historically disadvantaged, and fair treatment in employment. Many companies had initially claimed that they did not have the correct ratio of women or the disabled because there was a lack of skills. That was why the Skills Development Act was promulgated. SETA insisted that 85% of black people, 54% women and 4% of people with disabilities should be trained, when funding was giving. The SETA itself did not recruit learners, but it still found that many companies did not specifically target training of those with disabilities, so they failed to reach the 4% target for disabilities was not reached. The SETA would work closely with the MDDA to confront issues of diversity and transformation.

The barriers to entry included the perceived lack of skills with regard to designated groups. In addition, there was never 100% uptake of learners who had been trained. There was inadequate funding for new ventures, and inadequate enforcement and monitoring of employment equity initiatives. SETA believed that more research was needed. There should be closer alignment of WSPs with employment equity provisions. There was a need for better workplace skills implementation and monitoring to improve credibility of the system, coupled with sanctions for non-performance. There also had to be opportunities for further funding. The ICT Charter had some positive elements.

Mr Mokapi illustrated the position of SETA, and how it distributed its annual levies of about R400 million. He explained that about 50% was paid back to employers who produced the WSPs. Other shares would be put to SETA administration, a portion would be paid to the National Skills Fund, and about R80 million was discretionary. There were currently 21 SETAs, and about R20 billion was generated every five years. He believed that the system had enough funding to address skills development. However, there was still information coming through of shortage of skills. He said that more partnerships and conscience was needed to use the money in the system far better to achieve the right impact.

Mr Mokapi concluded that there seemed to be disjuncture between skills development and employment equity initiatives. There was inadequate enforcement of the provisions of the Employment Equity Act by the Department of Labour. The Broad Based Black Economic Empowerment (BBBEE) initiatives did not make sufficient impact, particularly in regard to control and management. The biggest barrier was lack of finance for new ventures. More training, research, and better funding models for new ventures were required.

Discussion
The Chairperson asked whether the figures quoted were current figures, and asked what might happen, when advertising and ICT were also added to expand the mandate.

Mr Mokapi said that out of the R400 million income, the media and advertising sub-sectors contributed around R70 million. The MICT SETA was not divided into chambers, and therefore did not face the problems of other SETAs who split their income proportionately, so that those chambers contributing less also could train less, despite the fact that they may have greater needs. This SETA could concentrate on individual needs.

The Chairperson said that clearly the well-established media would benefit, but he asked whether the small media could also be seen as up and coming employers.

Ms Kilian referred to the lack of finance for new ventures and asked what Mr Mokapi proposed as a solution to make sure that ventures did not fall through the cracks.

Mr Mokapi said that the SETA would like to work with small companies and help them, but they would have to participate as a levy-playing employer, which meant that they must have a payroll threshold above R500 000. This threshold tended to cut off smaller companies. The SETA did not think that they should be excluded, which was why it was building a partnership with the MDDA, and would try to help to address some challenges, although it could not fund capital ventures. A link was needed to pull all the entities together. 

Ms Kilian noted that there were perceptions around lack of ICT skills. However, she asked whether people were aware of the databases of graduates, and how it could be advertised, as individuals found it very demoralising not to be able to find work.

Mr Mokapi said that over the years, he had been engaging with the body who tried to help unemployed graduates, but he could not actually get database information from them. They appeared to be doing business as a placement agency, and were thus unwilling to give out the information. Systems would have to be put in place to ensure that any database was properly administered, and he conceded that perhaps the SETA had not done enough on this in the past.

Ms Kilian noted that there did not seem to be a proper check on what was being paid back to employers. She asked if the SETA played a role in handing cases over to the Department of Labour and how that gap could be bridged.

Mr Mopaki said that government believed that employers would take skills development seriously if they wanted to have a competitive advantage, so they would be encouraged to upskill their employees. However, that was not always the case; employers tended to let their unskilled employees go and source others. The SETAs should be checking up when the WSPs were submitted. Companies employing 50 people or more were supposed to have training committees with equal representation from employers and labour, but he was sure that many were never set up. The Unions should be exercising more influence in the workplace.

Ms Kilian asked if any bursaries were offered for studies at Universities of Technology, and, if not, the reasons.

Ms Kilian asked if it was wise to offer a stipend to extend academic qualifications, when the country was already sitting with so many people without any qualifications at all. Many families were surviving on the income of one family member, and young people had to take jobs rather than study further. She wondered if more people should not be prepared for immediate employment, as they could further their qualifications later. She was concerned that perhaps the country was producing an over qualified elite, pointing out that it was these people who would tend to leave the country for better jobs elsewhere.

Mr Mopaki said that in the past there had been a focus on bursaries for university studies. The SETA had found that many people at FET or University of Technology level completed the academic component of the training, but did not have the workplace experience training, and could not get their final certificates. The SETA therefore had to address this, and focus more on the lower and level skills. The National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) could also assist. Around R22 billion had been committed to pay outstanding fees. He said that many employers were not willing to take those with occupational-directed qualifications (the NQF qualifications), and this perception must also be addressed.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked for clarity on the funds paid back to the employers.

Mr Mopaki said that for employer-initiated training, the employer would receive back 50% of the skills levy once it had submitted a WSP, and had provided proof of training. However, it was not possible for the SETA to tell the companies how to train. The SETA could initiate further training, if an employer provided a Letter of Intent to train unemployed people.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked for clarity on “knock and drop” media.

Mr Mopaki noted that these would be “free” papers and campaign-type documents.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen noted that there were many barriers for the disabled in the workplace. Although many were willing to hire those with disabilities in theory, they then faced practical barriers, such as no sign-language interpreters, or lack of computer software for the blind. Many colleges were not accessible to those with disabilities. She also asked if disabled students would be assisted into tertiary institutions.

Mr Mopaki noted that there were a number of training providers who could train people with disabilities, and this was the one area in which the SETA would not rely on an employer. However, there was still not the uptake it had expected for this training He noted that companies should comply with the law around disability access. There was a need to work on changing mindsets of employers and employees in the workplace.

Ms Newhoudt Druchen asked how many students of different races entered the SETA.

Mr Mokapi noted that about 3 000 students were trained each year, but there was also training through employers.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked why the interns were not being hired, after they were trained.

Mr Mokapi said that companies were employing some of the people they had trained as interns. In the past, a company might claim the full amount for 100 learners, despite knowing that it could not place more than 30 of them. SETA was now calling on employers to submit a letter of commitment to employ a high percentage of the learners, or insist that those companies should place the interns elsewhere. This had led to a drop in the demand for training. The system, however, did not allow SETA to look for learners on the outside. He believed that it was necessary to build a critical mass of skills. One view was that people should not merely be trained for the sake of it, but another was that people should be given the opportunity to be trained notwithstanding the lack of jobs at the moment.

The meeting was adjourned.




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