Films and Publications Act Implementation; Department Information and Technology Systems: briefing

Meeting report

HOME AFFAIRS PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
26 October 2004
FILM AND PUBLICATIONS ACT IMPLEMENTATION; DEPARTMENT INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY SYSTEMS: BRIEFING

Chairperson: Mr H Chauke (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Film and Publications Act: Department briefing
Information and Technology Systems: Deputy Minister's briefing
Film and Publications Act 65 of 1996 (Government Gazette No. 22083)
Committee report of visit to Mpumalanga, 13-16 October 2004

SUMMARY
The Deputy Minster gave the Committee an update on the extent to which the Department had implemented the Film and Publications Act. He also gave an update on the progress that had been made regarding the Information and Technology Systems (ITS) 'crisis' that the faced Department. The discussion about the Film and Publications Act mainly centred on child pornography and the relationship between television broadcasters and the Film and Publications Board. The ITS update centred on the Department's challenges and the gains that had been made. The ITS discussion was cut short when the Department was ordered to meet with SITA and report back to the Committee with clearer answers to the problems. Members were most disappointed that HANIS was not yet up and running.

MINUTES

Film and Publications Act: Department briefing
The Deputy Minister explained that the Film and Publications Act amendments had not yet been signed by the Presidency. The Department had started looking at the Act to see what regulations needed to be amended. He outlined the problems with child pornography, the escalation of pornographic material in South Africa, the provision of pornographic channels by hotels, the proliferation of adult shops, and the fact that television movies fell outside the scope of the Film and Publications Act. A Child Pornography Toll-free Helpline would be launched on 26 November..

Discussion
Mr S Swart (ACDP) said that his Party endorsed the concern about the adult shops and supported the Department's attempts to eradicate child pornography. He said that the ACDP also supported bringing television broadcasters under the authority of the Film and Publications Act. He asked what could be done to get the issue looked at urgently. He suggested that the Department look into the discussions being held in the Portfolio Committee on Justice, that was currently looking into reducing the age of consent.

Adv Chetty (Film and Publications Board) explained that the Board had always been in support of bringing television under one authority. The Board was dealing with images that were harmful and inappropriate and so television should be brought under their authority. He mentioned the Netherlands, which had brought films and television and film under one authority. Television could not broadcast XXX material, but they could broadcast X18. Under the amendments, a broadcaster would have to get an exemption under section 24 to bring such material in. Television was under no obligation to submit their films for classification.

Mr Swart wanted clarity that there was no control of television. Adv Chetty said that television was subject to a code in the Broadcasting Act, which the Broadcasting Commission regulated themselves. The Broadcasting Board did not monitor computers, schools or offices. There was a need to monitor official computers. However the Board's work was limited by staff limitations. There were no full-time monitors. Things should improve with the launch of the Hotline.

Mr W Skhosana (ANC) questioned the figures which indicated that most of the perpetrators of child pornography were mainly Indian and white. He wanted to know how rife child trafficking was. Some African female children were being adopted so they could be used as prostitutes at a later stage. He also wanted to know how rife child trafficking was globally, and in Africa.

The Deputy Minister said that child trafficking was rife all over the world. In all areas, the adoption of children was being used to traffic. In South Africa, the Immigration laws had changed so it was no longer easy to adopt a child and leave the country. There were stringent requirements to deal with this problem. South Africa had signed the International Convention on Child Trafficking, and the country was currently working with SADC countries to counter the problem. The issue had to be taken up by all sectors seriously.

Mr K Morwamoche (ANC) wanted to know how effective the inspectors were in rooting out child pornography. Did they do daily, weekly or monthly inspections?

Mr Swart (ANC) was concerned that the prosecution and sentencing was sub-optimal. This issue had to be taken up with South African Police Services and the courts. He agreed that the television broadcasters and films should to be under one authority.

Adv Chetty explained that an amendment had been made to make it possible for a court to increase sentences. Before the maximum sentence for possession, distribution and creation had been five years. Now the maximum sentence was ten years each - thus a perpetrator could now be given 20 or 30 years jail sentence. Courts needed to be sensitised to the seriousness of the crime. There was a tendency for the courts not to see child pornography crimes as serious. He mentioned a case of a child aged two months, being used in pornography.

The Deputy Minister elaborated that it was also an offence to purchase and obtain child pornography. The minimum sentence was 10 years. There was a need for a joint campaign between the Departments of Justice, Safety and security, Education and Health. They had to ensure that there was a whole process to curb the problem. Parents distributing photographs of their children naked was a crime. Parents had to take greater responsibility for their children. "It had to be everyone's campaign".

Mr Swart suggested an addition to the regulations in 2b of 23 February 2004, which had said that adult shops should not to be close to schools and churches. The addition should be 'and any other area the board may see as inappropriate'.

Adv Chetty explained that the regulations governing adult premises were authorised by two authorities. Registration had to be done with the Board, and local government authorities issued the license. There were no national agreements on what the conditions should be. Some local governments had repealed the Local Business Act of 1991 in favour of the Provincial Business Act, but sections of the Act could not be repealed. There were different opinions between the Board and local government authorities. The Board felt that the public should be given the opportunity to comment. The amendments had added government buildings to schools, churches and hospitals. The main problem was that there were two authorities. The problem was not with the Board. The Board had been having regular meetings with local government authorities on these issues.

The Deputy Minister said that the Committee should indicate their displeasure to ensure that the matter of the adult shop outside Parliament was dealt with. The shop had to be moved away from Parliament. There were concerns that there were renovations happening in the shop.

The Chairperson said that the problem of adult shops was not just a problem outside Parliament. They were found everywhere. He wanted to know why the shops could not be regulated. Currently there was one person controlling the whole Western Cape. The Committee would take up the issue with other Portfolio Committees. Implementation of the legislation was very important and the budget for the Board had to be increased to ensure that resources went to building capacity.

Ms M Maunye (ANC) expressed her concern about the 18XX movies being shown on television. She pointed out that television did not help by broadcasting pornographic material. Children watched a large amount of television and such shows were 'killing moral values. Sex work was also 'killing families'.

Ms S Mars (DA) voiced her concern about Internet service providers. What co-operation was there, and was there ongoing dialogue? Without the support of Internet service providers, there could no control.

Adv Chetty defended the Internet Service Providers Association by highlighting how the Association had publicly credited the Department on the way that they had dealt with the amendment. They had assured the Board of their full co-operation in the implementations of the amendments. Clean images were good for businesses. There had been concern over the issue of 'blame', but this had been resolved. There were regular meetings between the Board and the Association, and there was close co-operation between the Board, the Association and the Deputy Minister.

The Chairperson commented that Members should not forget the laws that had been put in place. If children downloaded or watched material while parents were sleeping, for example, the parents could be arrested.

The Deputy Minister suggested that the Portfolio Committees on Communications and Arts and Culture needed to be brought in to bring the television under the Board and ministerial level.

Information and Technology Systems: Deputy Minister's briefing
The Deputy Minister said that the ITS was at the core of business of the Department of Home Affairs. The presentation outlined the challenges and the solutions. A new Deputy Director of IT had been appointed to lead the IT strategy. He discussed the staffing situation, HANIS, HANIS Reloaded, the capturing of fingerprints, the Smart Identity Card and the new population register and the reviewing of spending patterns.

Discussion
The Chairperson reminded the meeting that the Committee had asked the Department to meet with SITA to deal with the problems in their working relationship and the outputs. He asked SITA to respond.

SITA response
Mr J Begoshi (Manager: Client Services) explained that SITA was going through internal restructuring. The 'turnaround strategy' was responsible for the appointment of new executives, such as himself. They were currently reviewing SITA's relationship with the Department. He had realised that partnerships with the Department were weak. The Department's IT systems were currently running on the SITA network and SITA was responsible for the telephone services. SITA was currently mapping out the Department's priorities, depending on the services they were offering. SITA believed that they played a role with the Department in the Department's radical computerisation and the remodelling of their processes. Mr Begoshi explained that because of his new appointment, he was not able to give more information at this time. He did reassure the Members that there was a new team at SITA that would work very well.

Discussion
The Deputy Minister commented that his office had observed that the provincial and front line offices were unable to provide the necessary IT support on time. They had also discovered that all the old computers from the head office were being sent to the provinces. There was a clear issue of reporting because people were not reporting problems. The Committee should play a larger role in informing the Department of these problems. They were working on the crippling management crisis. He admitted the Department and SITA were crucial to each other, but they were not working together. The Deputy Director-General (DDG) of IT would expand on this.

Mr M Sibande (ANC) raised concerns that the Committee had constantly requested SITA to report back, and they knew about this meeting. He was vexed that they had sent a new member to account, who was not aware of the history. Why was an member of longer standing not sent?

Mr M Radebe (SITA) highlighted the institutional changes that had been taking place in SITA. At the time of the last meeting, SITA did not have the critical resources to take the Department forward. They had been engaging with the DDG of IT and the Deputy Minister. This was a new practice because they never had relations at this strategic level before. With this new urgency, relations had improved. Internally, SITA was going through changes because there was a 'need for new blood'. Last year, the leadership in the Department had not been able to take the problems forward. With the new appointments, SITA would play a stronger role. A newer member had been sent because it was his portfolio, and he had to 'learn the ropes'.

Mr Sibande wanted to know about the loopholes, such as the 46 advertised posts in the IT branch. How soon would the staff be appointed?

Mr K Hlahla (DDG: ITS) said that they were busy with the interviewing process for the 46 posts. Before the end of the week, positions would be filled.

Mr Sibande said that on their study tour to Lindela, they had learned of had been many developments and installations. How long would it take for the system to be linked to the mainframe? The staff had indicated that there were still loopholes.

Mr Hlahla explained that Lindela was linked to the main frame. They had 27 terminals linked to the population register.

The Chairperson wanted to know why HANIS was not up and running since the government had been pumping millions into the project since 1996. What was happening? When they had received the budget of 2003/4, the report said that the Department had captured 2.4 million records. How could this figure not have moved?

Mr Hlahla said that there had been an increase. It had been 2 million, and now it was 2.4 million. There was a backlog because the Department was getting more applications than the system could handle. Once the tender had been awarded, the system would be able to handle the backlog.

The Chairperson asked where the problem was? Mr Hlahla said that the problem had been the political dynamics in the Department. Projects had also taken longer because of the inter-departmental approach. His presentation would answer all these questions.

The Chairperson then cancelled the Department's presentation. He ruled that the Department would have to meet with SITA and then give a joint presentation. In the last budget vote, the Department had said that by the end of the financial year, refugees would have a 'smart card', but now this was not going to happen. There were no systems in place and there were larger problems. The Department and SITA would have to return in two weeks and present to the Committee. Members had to pass the budget for 2004/05 but were unable to do so for IT under the current circumstances. In that presentation, the Department should provide a list of all the consultants, when and how they were appointed and exactly who these people were. What were they doing? Since 1996 there had been no progress. The Portfolio Committee wanted to know the full picture.

Mr M Phala (ANC) added that in a particular directory, there was one consultant for every official. He wanted to know in the presentation if the consultants hired had worked on assignments similar to the ones of the Department.

The meeting was then adjourned.