PC Home Affairs: Outstanding Committee Minutes

Home Affairs

29 October 2013
Chairperson: Ms M Maunye (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee was not able to approve or amend minutes in the first few minutes of the meeting because there was no quorum. When the Committee reached quorum, all minutes were approved with amendments. After the last minutes for consideration of the Committee, the Chairperson had to once again table minutes dated from 23 July to 30 July. All minutes were approved with amendments due to errors in grammar and wording. There were also a few instances where amendments were made pertaining to wording.

 

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed everyone to the meeting and said the Committee would deal with the amendments. She announced that there were apologies from Ms H Makhuba (IFP) and Mr M Mnqasela (DA), who arrived late to the meeting.

The Chairperson reminded the Committee that nothing could be adopted until there was quorum.

Committee Minutes Dated 23 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from all Members.

Mr Adam Solomon, Committee Researcher, noted grammatical errors on page 4.

Committee Minutes Dated 24 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from all Members. She stated that these were further deliberations of the Electoral Amendment Bill. She further stated that this was a Private Member’s Bill and that there was a briefing by Provincial Managers from Free State and Eastern Cape.

The Chairperson also noted that all Members were present in this meeting, except for Ms Makhubu and Mr Mnqasela. She further noted a grammatical error on page 3.

Mr Solomon also noted another grammatical error on page 4. The font size was also noted to be bigger.

Committee Minutes Dated 25 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from all Members. She stated that this was a briefing by Provincial Managers of Gauteng, Limpopo and Mpumalanga.

Mr Solomon noted that on the apologies (page 1), the acronym for the DA was not written, whereas acronyms for other political parties written next to the full name of each political party. This was noted on the list of people who were absent. He also noted that there were formatting errors and this, he stated, did not look professional.

Ms P Peterson-Maduna (ANC) stated that the DA did put in an apology.

Mr Solomon stated that the reason why he did not put in an apology was because he was at the Zimbabwean elections and was under the impression that apologies were to be submitted by Members only.

Mr Solomon noted a grammatical error on page 3.

Committee Minutes Dated 30 July 2013
The Chairperson noted that most people were not present in this meeting.

Mr Solomon noted a grammatical error.

The Chairperson stated that these were briefings from KwaZulu-Natal and Western Cape.

Mr Solomon noted that Mr Eddie Mathonsi, the Committee Secretary, did not mention the full names of the Inkatha Freedom Party and Congress of the People Members and that he only mentioned the full names for the African National Congress.

The Chairperson responded that this was fine.

Mr Mathonsi said that the full name of each party had to be there, and then the acronym.

The Chairperson welcomed Ms H Makhubu (IFP), who then apologised for being late.

The Chairperson briefed Ms Makhubu and stated that they were busy with the minutes of 30 July. She noted that a word had to be added on page 2. She also noted grammatical errors on page 3.

Committee Minutes Dated 13 August 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that on page 1, there was a list of people who were present and those who were absent. She noted a grammatical error on page 2.

 

Other Members also noted more errors on page 2 and 3.

The Chairperson noted something that was said on the meeting, that the voter's roll should be presented annually to the Committee. She stated that she did not understand why the voter’s roll should be presented to all Members annually. She did not know what Members would do with it.

Members laughed and it was suggested that this should be deleted.

The Chairperson further reminded Mr Mnqasela that they were in a meeting and that he should not disturb anyone, but rather join in the meeting quietly.

Font problems were noted; font size was smaller in some parts than others.

A suggestion was made by Mr G McIntosh (COPE). He suggested that a word be changed because there was no such word as the one that was used on the minutes in the English vocabulary. The word was “comprensive” and it was changed to “comprehensive.”

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 20 August 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated the meeting on the above-mentioned date dealt with the Electoral Amendment Bill.

Ms Makhuba asked where her apology was because she did not see it on the minutes and she had submitted an apology on that day.

The Chairperson stated that it was on the minutes and that she was present on that day. She also stated that Mr Mathonsi needed to delete certain things from the minutes.

Another Member enquired about her apology, the Chairperson asked if she did send in the apology and she asked the Chairperson to ask Mr Mathonsi. The Chairperson then assured the Member that Mr Mathonsi would address that problem.

Members noted grammatical and wording errors on page 2.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 10 September 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that these were public hearings on the Electoral Amendment Bill. There was one apology for that meeting.

Mr McIntosh noted that a Member’s name had been misspelled.

The Chairperson and Mr A Gaum (ANC) noted more errors. They suggested some minor word changes and stated that there were many other articles that could be used.

Mr Mnqasela highlighted a presentation by Ubuntu Centre on page 2, stating that there was a sentence which was open to many interpretations and he did not want to associate himself with it. It was suggested that the sentence be deleted and Members agreed.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 17 September 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that they were dealing with the Electoral Bill.

Mr A Gaum (ANC) and Mr McIntosh noted wording errors on page 2 and both suggested changes that could be made. Mr McIntosh noted that changes could be done either way, meaning that they could be done the way he was suggesting or the way Mr Gaum was suggesting. Mr Gaum agreed with Mr McIntosh’s suggestion.

Mr Gaum also noted that a word should be added on page 2. He also stated that he was not the Island Guam, correcting the misspelling of his surname, which was visible throughout. He further noted more errors, stating that certain words were not supposed to be written in bold letters.

Mr McIntosh made a comment that he thought that the minutes were written at 3am. Members laughed.

Mr Gaum stated that he would not refer to the Island Guam every time. Mr Mathonsi then responded by saying that he would correct this.

The Chairperson asked Members if they could look at the proposed changes.

Mr Gaum stated that on page 3, they were further examples of “with amendment” written in bold.

Mr McIntosh noted that it was deliberate and Mr Gaum agreed. 

Mr Mnqasela stated that English was not his home language, that he spoke IsiXhosa at home. He further went on to correct some wording errors, stating that the wording did not sound right.

Mr McIntosh stated that it did not matter, but the point was that all minor issues be fixed.

Mr Gaum suggested also that words be added.

The Chairperson asked if all Members were comfortable with such changes.

Some Members agreed.

Mr McIntosh noted that the date of the meeting was written twice, on the first and the last page of the minutes.

Mr Mathonsi stated that there was a particular format that was sent for that day which he had to follow. He also added that there was no standard agreed format of writing minutes, so changes could be made.

The Chairperson asked Members if it would be a problem if the dates were left as they were.
A Member responded that they should rather move on to another point.

Mr McIntosh then stood up to excuse himself, stating that he was very sorry he had to leave for a Trade and Industry Portfolio Committee meeting. He added that he enjoyed this Committee very much. He was leaving the task of making minor corrections to Mr Gaum, adding that he was conscious that Mr Gaum’s English was very good, even though it was not his first language.

Mr Gaum then noted some wording and grammatical errors.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 18 September 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that they were considering the adoption of the A list and the B version of the Electoral Amendment Bill.

Mr Guam suggested a word change on page 2 because he felt that it was inappropriate. He also asked what the A list of the Electoral Amendment Bill was. He stated that certain words should be changed to make things clearer.

Ms Makhubu noted a word that needed to be removed.

Mr Gaum suggested that the Shadow Minister be welcomed. He also noted that clause 2 of the minutes was not in bold, when it should have been.

The Chairperson and Mr Mathonsi responded that there were no minutes tabled for that day.

Mr De Freitas (DA) apologised for being late. He then went on to suggest grammatical corrections.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 8 October 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that this was a meeting with the Auditor-General, the Department, IEC, FPB and GPW.

Mr De Freitas had a query about the acronym used for the Auditor-General. He stated that he was under that impression that it was written as AG and not AGSA. He was seeking clarity pertaining to this matter. He also noted that once an acronym had been used, there should be consistency in using acronyms instead of using the full name in some parts and the acronym in others.

The Chairperson responded by stating that she was also not sure about the acronym for Auditor-General because at times the acronym AG was used, and sometimes, the acronym AGSA was used. She then asked Members if they had a problem with that.

Mr Gaum stated he was also confused as to which acronym should be used. He then suggested that Mr Mathonsi finds out which acronym is indeed the correct one and that he should make changes in accordance with his finding. He further noted some missing words that were supposed to be added.

Mr De Freitas also noted the clumsy wording of some sentences, he suggested changes as a result and he also noted that the acronym for the Independent Electoral Commission had been stated as EC in some places, and this was incorrect because it is still abbreviated as IEC. He further corrected other minor issues.

Mr Gaum  suggested minor wording changes. He also suggested that from there on, the full name for the Department of Home Affairs, followed by its acronym should be written once, and thereafter, only the acronym should be used.

Mr De Freitas once again noted a few changes that had to be made pertaining to wording on the last page.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 10 October 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that this was a briefing by the Department of Home Affairs on the annual report.

Mr De Freitas suggested that the words “Department of Home Affairs” on page 1 shall be abbreviated after the full name had been stated.  He also suggested some grammatical and wording corrections.

Me De Freitas further suggested that the word Identity Document shall be written in full, and then an acronym shall be used thereafter.

Mr Mnqasela noted an improper sentence on page 2 and made corrections accordingly.

Mr De Freitas suggested some minor changes pertaining to grammar and wording. He further made suggestions pertaining to the use of acronyms.

Mr Mnqasela suggested that a word be inserted on page 3 so that the sentence would make sense.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 11 October 2013
Mr Gaum noted a grammatical error on page 1.

Mr De Freitas noted that the acronym for IEC should be fixed.

Mr a Gaum suggested some grammatical and wording corrections.

Mr De Freitas suggested that the acronym for the Electoral Commission was IEC.

Mr Gaum made wording corrections on page 2.

Mr De Freitas suggested that abbreviations should be made instead of writing the name in full. He also asked that the currency could be standardised because he noted that in a number of minutes, there was a mixture of dots and commas. He suggested that Mr Mathonsi should go through the minutes and standardise them. He went on to make more wording and grammatical corrections.

Mr Gaum also suggested wording corrections.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 15 October 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She informed the Committee that these were briefings by the Film and Publications Board and the Government Printing Works.

Mr De Freitas noted that there was an error pertaining to the acronym of the IEC. He also suggested some wording corrections.

Mr Mnqasela stated that the Constitution recognised the Electoral Commission of South Africa; that the IEC was the Parliament way of talking. His question was whether this would lead to a Constitutional problem.

Mr Gaum responded by stating that he understood Mr Mnqasela’s point but he did not believe that this would lead to a Constitutional Problem at all. He further asked Members to go back to the introduction paragraph and he suggested some wording changes.

The Chairperson asked if Members did not have a problem with the concern raised by Mr Mnqasela earlier.

Mr De Freitas stated that when the IEC presented itself to Parliament, it did state that when mentioned in full, the IEC would be referred to in as the Independent Electoral Commission.  Parliament was going in line with that.

The Chairperson stated that the Electoral Commission was known as the IEC and therefore they should continue referring to it that way.

Mr De Freitas suggested that Mr Mathonsi should enquire further about this and make corrections accordingly.

Mr Mnqasela stated that he referred to Electoral Commission as the IEC when he spoke in public. He stated that his concern was that the word that was being used was not consistent with the Constitution, which he referred to as being casual. He also added that perhaps they should continue to refer to it as the IEC because this created a strong brand. Mr Mnqasela added that he did not want to hold the Committee at ransom because of this but rather for Members to note that this was a point to be noted. He suggested that State Law Advisors could help with this issue.

Ms Makhubu stated that she thought there was no harm in asking Mr Mathonsi and Mr Solomon to enquire about which word was most appropriate for Parliament's use.

The Chairperson responded by stating that the matter would be left in their hands and that they would consult with the Parliamentary Law Advisors, who would tell them which word to use so that Parliament could be in line with the rules of Parliament.

Mr Mathonsi responded by stating that once he enquiry has been made, the wording would be changed accordingly. The Chairperson agreed.

Mr De Freitas suggested grammatical corrections on page 2. He also suggested wording corrections.

Mr Gaum suggested further wording corrections on page 2.

Mr De Freitas stated that in 4.1, minutes read as “the FBP should conclude a memorandum of understanding with ICASA and other industry as a whole.” He was not sure what that meant and he said that the statement was very broad. He suggested that if the sentence was referring to other players, those players should be listed. He suggested that they should rather say that “the FBP should conclude the memorandum of understanding with ICASA.

Mr Solomon stated that he thought that the sentence meant the broadcasting industry as a whole.

Mr Gaum suggested wording corrections.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 17 October 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that this was a consideration of the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report (BRRR).

Mr De Freitas suggested a wording correction on page 1.

Ms Makhubu also suggested wording corrections.

Mr De Freitas made further wording corrections.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 27 October 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that this was the consideration of the BRRR and adoption of minutes.

Mr De Freitas suggested wording corrections and he also suggested that BRRB be written in full on page 1 because it was the first time it was mentioned on the minutes. He also suggested both grammatical and wording corrections on page 2.

Mr Mnqasela suggested further corrections pertaining to wording and grammar. Members also assisted him.

Mr De Freitas made more wording corrections.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 23 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that they would once again look at the minutes which they had already gone through. They could neither adopt nor amend because there was no quorum earlier. This was the deliberation of the Electoral Amendment Bill.

Mr De Freitas asked once again that Mr Mathonsi should enquire about the acronym for the IEC to ensure that it was correct on page 1. He also suggested word and grammatical corrections on page 2, 3 and 4.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 23 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members.

Mr De Freitas noted that his name was misspelled on page 1.

Mr Mnqasela noted that there was repetition of names.

Mr De Freitas also made similar corrections and asked that there be consistency. He also suggested wording and grammatical corrections on page 2.  He further requested that numbers be standardised.

Ms Makhubu suggested wording corrections.

Mr De Freitas suggested wording corrections.

Ms N Mnisi (ANC) made a suggested that grammatical corrections on page 4.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 24 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members.

Mr De Freitas stated on page 1, the acronym for DA should be written, so that it could be consistent with other political parties. He further suggested grammatical corrections and that there be consistency in numbers on page 2.

Ms Mnisi suggested wording corrections. She also stated that on page 3, on the closing remarks, there were two instead of three provinces. The word “provinces” was also spelt incorrectly.

Mr De Freitas also suggested correction in wording. He also suggested that there were three provinces and not two.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

Committee Minutes Dated 20 July 2013
The Chairperson tabled the minutes for consideration and invited input from Members. She stated that this was a meeting KwaZulu-Natal and Western Cape Provinces.

Mr De Freitas suggested that corrections be made pertaining to names of Members and political parties for consistency purposes.

Ms Mnisi suggested corrections pertaining to the spelling of some of the KwaZulu-Natal municipalities and also some wording errors.

Ms Makhuba noted some wording errors and suggested corrections accordingly.

Mr De Freitas suggested wording and numerical corrections. He also noted that a hyphen should be put between the word KwaZulu and Natal.

The Committee adopted the minutes with amendments.

The Chairperson stated that this may be the last meeting of the year, and that there would be no meeting next week.

The meeting was adjourned.

 

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