Briefing by Department on RSA Policy in the Middle East Focussing on Areas other than Palestine & Israel

Meeting report

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
18 October 2005
BRIEFING BY THE DEPARTMENT ON RSA POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOCUSSING ON AREAS OTHER THAN PALESTINE AND ISRAEL

Chairperson: Ms K R Magau (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Powerpoint Presentation by the Department of Foreign Affairs: ‘The Middle East – relations with Gulf States and Iraq’
Minutes from the meeting of the Portfolio Committee of Foreign affairs on 14 September 2005

SUMMARY
The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) briefed the Committee on South Africa’s policy in the Middle East, focussing on areas other than Palestine and Israel. The presentation emphasised the challenges facing South Africam diplomacy in the Gulf region and Iraq, and outlined the reasons for South Africa’s involvement in the Middle East. There was both political and economic motivation. The presentation focused on the potential for economic growth for South Africa, and Africa as a whole, as a result of such relations. This was to be promoted through economic diplomacy encouraging greater trade, investment and tourism. Some members raised concern about the emphasis on economic ties over other international obligations such as human rights and the Millennium Development Goals. Others welcomed the economic bias but felt that the focus was too narrow and required greater interaction between the Department and other related areas such as Trade and Industry, and Energy Affairs. A diplomatic presence in Iraq was required in order to answer questions as to the political situation on the ground and South Africa’s potential role in helping the international community to resolve this. However, this would not be possible until the security situation had improved. This also impacted on South Africa’s business intentions in the area as travel to the country could not be recommended.

MINUTES
Briefing
The presentation was given by Mr J Marx (DFA, Chief Director: Middle East). He provided an introduction and overview of the region in a global context and outlined South Africa’s objectives in the region.

South Africa had two principal objectives. The first was a political objective to assist international efforts aimed at solving the major conflicts in the region, and preventing the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Secondly, an economic objective to promote trade, investment, and tourism, as well as scientific and technology exchanges. This was to be understood both in the context of relations between South Africa and the region, and in the wider context of NEPAD and the promotion of South-South relations.

Current economic relations between South Africa and the various countries in the region were provided as the focus of the presentation. Closer economic ties with the Gulf states was regarded as a high priority for South Africa. Various means of promoting these were outlined. Political relations were also briefly highlighted.

South Africa relations with Iraq were treated separately and background to the current political situation in Iraq was provided. At present South Africa has no diplomatic representation in Iraq but establishing one would be a priority as soon as security circumstances permitted. High-level interaction with the current Iraqi government was underway.

The presentation concluded with an analysis of the challenges facing South African diplomacy in the Gulf region and Iraq, and reasons were given for South Africa’s involvement in the Middle East. Such involvement had the potential to provide a substantial contribution to the economic development of the country and the African continent as a whole, through job creation and the appropriate transfer of technology and skills. It would also be essential in the context of South Africa’s contribution to world peace and security.

Discussion
Prof B Turok (ANC) asked how the Department could be certain that foreign Islamic militants were the the principal source of violence in the region. Although he had no other source of information than news media, his general perception was that the violence stemmed from local sources.

He noted that the emphasis of the presentation had been on economic issues. As a member of the Trade and Industry Portfolio Committee, Prof Turok stated that he had not sensed a close working relationship between the two Departments. While the emphasis was welcomed, he wanted more information on how the relationship worked. Regarding NEPAD, he felt that the references in the presentation had been too general and questioned how the relationship with NEPAD worked.

Mr P Nefolovhodwe (APO) asked about the US and British interests in the area, with specific reference to Iran. He enquired to what extent those interests were hindering the process towards the reconciliation of different groups there. He referred to the belief that those countries with solders in Iraq were democratising the country, and questioned to what extent this perception was viewed as correct by the local population in terms of their own values, religions, and history.

Mr M Ramgobin (ANC) asked to what extent, in historical terms, the relationship between the Middle Eastern and the Oil and Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) countries militated against the emergence of a strong Northern Alliance movement. He wondered if this would help South-South relations.

He noted the emphasis on trade and asked about South Africa’s international obligations in terms of human rights. He questioned South Africa’s role in introducing the question of human rights. These were clearly absent in some parts of the Middle East. In a discussion of South Africa’s relationship with these countries, he felt it was dangerous to place an over-emphasis on trade.

He asked the Department to explain why there had been only five bilateral agreements between South Africa and the Middle East, and queried if there was some significance to these all been made with Iran. He referred to the possibility of Iraq being split into three different regions and questioned the role played by Britain and the US in this, as they were nations familiar with the idea of divide and rule. He questioned if this was their responsibility

Mr Marx stated, in response to the question of the extent to which violence was organised from the outside, that the Department also depended on the news media and reports from diplomatic missions in neighbouring countries, as South Africa had no diplomatic mission in Iraq itself. What was known was that a Jordanian was noted to be at the head of the Al Qaeda network. The Iraqi ambassador in South Africa had also pointed out that suicide attacks were not part of Iraqi history, but had its origins elsewhere. However, former members of Sadaam Hussein’s regime were obviously resorting to violence. There were, therefore, both foreign and local sources of violence.

Prof Turok felt that such a statement might prove tricky if heard in Iraq. There was a substantial opposition movement amongst Iraqis and to state that the source of violence was principally foreign would diminish the national struggle within the country. This could be embarrassing to South Africa and, if the internal dynamic was underestimated, could cause offence.

Mr Marx reiterated that the opinion had been voiced by the Iraqi ambassador. Prof Turok responded that South Africa could not make its judgement based on the word of the Iraqi ambassador but must instead make a political judgement. Mr Marx agreed.

Mr Marx commented on the close coordination, in terms of business plans, between the DFA and the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI). The two had met in February 2005 to coordinate and integrate business plans for the following year. Relations were good and a coordinated approach was taken in achieving objectives.

NEPAD was included in the context of encouraging trade and investment between the Middle East; and not only South Africa, but also SADC, and the continent as a whole had been taken into account. Investment from the Middle East into anywhere on the continent would benefit all. For instance, the resulting job creation would reduce the number of illegal immigrants seeking work in South Africa.

Mr Marx could not speak on behalf of Britain and the US in terms of their interests in the region. They had made it clear why they had launched the invasions in the first place. He directed Members to the British and US ambassadors for further information.

The involvement of the population in the democratisation process could be inferred from the results of the referendum on Sunday. Initial reports suggested that 60% of the population had voted. As a clear majority, and in the face of threats of violence for participation, this demonstrated a clear interest in the democratisation process.

Mr Marx said it was difficult to comment on the impact of relations between the Middle East and OPEC countries on the strength of the Northern Alliance.

Mr Ramgobin said that one factor of the disjointed nature of the Northern Alliance Movement was the unproductive stance of OPEC nations - predominantly the Middle Eastern members – on the price of oil. The price of oil militated against the cost of reconstructing countries in Africa and Asia. A similar situation could be occurring today. The price of oil had increased. He questioned the impact this would have on the reconstruction processes. The South African agenda could not be extricated from that of the African Millennium Development Goals.

Mr Marx repeated that he could not comment on how those countries (OPEC members) viewed the Northern Alliance Movement or its likely impact on the world. The situation was too difficult to judge.

Mr Marx stated that the question of human rights was a sensitive issue in Middle Eastern states given the different cultural perspectives. There was a focus on encouraging human rights. The approach was to encourage people by increasing exchanges between NGOs in these countries and NGO’s in South Africa in order to facilitate interaction between the various civil societies.

In response to the view that there was an over emphasis on trade, Mr Marx stated that over the last 10 years the nation had achieved its political diplomatic goals. At a recent meeting of Regional African Heads the issue had been raised that there was no DTI representative at respective embassies. It was decided that economic diplomacy should be the focus of South African diplomats abroad from now on.

Mr Marx pointed out that South Africa was in the process of negotiating with a number of countries and that there would therefore be an increase in the number of bilateral agreements. When this would occur was a matter to be decided by the legal advisors of the various countries.

Mr Ramgobin replied that his concern was with the fact that the agreements had only been concluded with Iran.
Mr Marx responded that since the publishing of the annual report, agreements with other countries in the region had been signed.

Mr Ramgobin said he had raised the issue because of the need for sensitivities between South Africa and other countries. It was right to encourage relations with the region, both for South Africa’s agenda and for the agenda of Africa as a whole, he was concerned at the element of appeasement required in the practice of such economic diplomacy. Some things would be tolerated, some would be ignored. For example, South Africa’s stance on terrorism was clear. He asked if there was an agreement with Saudi Arabia. Mr Marx replied that it was difficult for him to comment on such a sensitive issue.

On the question of the potential split of Iraq into three regions, Mr Marx felt that the majority of people in Iraq were not in favour of this, although his opinion was based solely on news media and diplomatic reports from neighbouring countries. As for the interests of the big powers, it seemed they were in favour of unity in Iraq but he could not comment further. Once again he directed Members to ambassadors from those countries for further information.

Ms S Motubatse-Hounkpatin (ANC) could not understand the emphasis on creating a constitution without peace efforts in the region. She enquired as to what efforts were being made to ensure the three groups would start working together, if they were taking into account the views of civil society, and whether there peace organisations operating in the area.

Mr D Gibson (DA) stated that there was, if anything, an under-emphasis on trade. Creating jobs in South Africa was more important than anything else. Exports to the area were well balanced when compared with trade reported with a lot of other countries. However, tourism seemed very unbalanced. He questioned why South Africa could not attract the rich people who shopped in Dubai. He felt that more should be manufactured in South Africa. This balance needed to be redressed. South Africa had wonderful things to offer people from the Middle East if they were only made aware of it.

He also expressed concern that South Africa’s oil supply was so heavily reliant on Saudi Arabia and Iran and wondered if steps should be taken to decrease dependence on those sources and increase dependence on African sources. This would boost both oil security and Africa as a continent. He asked about security personnel in Iraq, and enquired if the Department had a negative perception of people working in Iraq.

Mr M Skosana (IFP) referred to a recent meeting he had attended where South Africa’s economic interests in Africa had been discussed. The major problem had been that a consensus could not be reached on what South Africa’s national interests were. He asked if South Africa’s economic interests in the Middle East were informed by South Africa’s national interests and, if so, what those were.

Mr M Mohlaloga (ANC) asked how certain objectives, such as the reform of the UN, the battle against terrorism, and the definition of terrorism, which obviously arose in the context of a discussion on the Middle Eastern region, should be approached. He enquired as to who South Africa’s partners were in the pursuance of foreign policy objectives.

Ms N Gxowa (ANC) asked if peace structures had been formed between the three Iraqi communities and whether women were included in the peacemaking process.

Mr D Maluleke (ANC) asked if there was an arrangement between the US and the UK as to whether Iraq was at liberty to enter into bilateral agreements with other countries on reconstruction projects.

Mr S Huang (ANC) wanted to know how business people from South Africa could safely be sent to the region. He also asked how South Africa could export more to the region. South Africa had a lot of resources so it should therefore be possible to achieve a decent trade balance.

Mr Marx replied that it was difficult to know about peace organisations or the involvement of women without a diplomatic mission on the ground. An important part of a diplomatic mission was to engage civil society, without which it was difficult to judge.

A major task, with the absence of South Africa Tourism in the region, was to encourage tourism to South Africa. A recent journalist from the region had written a positive article on South Africa. This was encouraging.
Mr Gibson asked whether we could request South Africa Tourism to create a presence in the region.
Mr Marx replied that they did not regard it as a priority area, as compared to other areas.

Mr Ramgobin asked whether the relevant statistics compounded the number of pilgrims and tourists who went from South Africa to Saudi Arabia.

Mr Marx replied that pilgrims were not regarded as tourists in the figures. He also pointed out that the figures did not reflect the foreigners living in the Middle East who visited South Africa as statistics were calculated using nationality of visitors. The actual figure of tourists to South Africa from the Middle East was therefore likely to be much larger.

On the oil supply issue Mr Marx felt that the Department of Energy Affairs would be better placed to respond. It was his belief that South Africa was diversifying and buying oil from Nigeria but this was speculation.

As to whether the Department had a negative view of South Africans working in Iraq, he believed this to be more a question of whether they were in contravention of the law. It was his understanding that amendments were being discussed in Parliament. The South African constitution stated that anyone can go anywhere and do anything in pursuit of private objectives. This may conflict with the operation of the Foreign Military Assistance Act. The legal proceedings on this would have to take its course.

The policies presented were certainly informed by national interests. All activities should be focussed on domestic priorities. The Department had a role to play in closing the gap between the first and second economies of South Africa by encouraging inward investment and increased exports. The same was true for political objectives such as increasing peace and decreasing WMDs. In every sense, policies were based on national objectives.

On the question of South Africa’s partners are in the furtherance of international objectives, he replied that South Africa was highly regarded in the region for its achievements ten years prior. South Africa had also played a constructive role in assisting to end the Israel/Palestine conflict. South Africa was seen as an example to be followed and had considerable political capital in the region. It had good relations with all countries in the region. Some, larger countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, played an important role, but relations were good with all countries in the Middle East, as evidenced by the fact that there were only two countries in which South Africa does not have diplomatic representation.

Mr Marx was under the impression that Iraq was free to enter into any agreement it wished with other countries but did not know the legal situation on the ground.

He agreed that safety was a concern in getting South African business people to Iraq. The Department could not encourage people to go to the region given the security situation. The answer might be to get Iraqi business people to South Africa.

On the question of rebalancing due to oil imports, Mr Marx stated that the Department had visited various provinces to make people more aware of what the Middle East had to offer. Improving skills of diplomats in the area focussed on encouraging inward investment and increasing exports.

Prof Turok raised the point that economic relations were not limited to trade and investment. Interactions between the DFA and the DTI should be improved to enable a more complex analysis. Economists should be employed by the DFA.

Mr Marx responded that the Department did regard economic ties in a much broader sense but that trade and investment were the most clear indicators available.

The meeting was adjourned.