Interrogation of Departmental Budgets with a view to Monitor the Allocation of Funds for Children, Youth & Disabled Persons: Dep

Prof. Denver Hendricks, the Head of Department conducted the presentation (document attached), which outlined the trends in the department’s spending, the objectives of the SRSA, Selected Priorities identified by the President, the service delivery and organisational environment and a strategic overview, and explained the SRSA position on programmes involving children, youth, and public with disability. He also highlighted International School Sport Programmes, Disability Sport South Africa, National Federations, and the Budget concerning the Paralympic Preparation, Commonwealth-, and Olympic Games.

Discussion

Mr M I Moss (ANC) thanked the Department of Sport and Recreation for sending a senior delegation and added that because they were a joint committee for disabled persons some departments would not take them seriously and would send junior persons who could not really give them the information they needed. He said that Prof. Hendricks stated that 25% of the public participated in sports. Mr Moss then continued that he was in a wheelchair, that he was a quadriplegic, but that he loved sports and that same afternoon he would go watch cricket, and that he saw that as participation in sports. He continued that this was not active participation, but that he definitely saw that as participation in sports, and asked whether Prof. Hendricks included that as well in his description of participation.

Mr M I Moss (ANC) added that South Africa was a sports mad country, and that everyone was proud of the Paralympians, although they were few in number when compared with able-bodied sportsmen. He said that when it came to the Paralympics, they had won lots of medals, something that all could be proud of. He noted that at the last Games, the able bodied team could not get even one medal and that they needed to do more. He said that one major concern he had was mass participation, and mentioned that when he was in school PT periods were compulsory, but that that was not the case anymore. He asked what the department was doing to revive that spirit. He continued that transformation was a concern, as sports united communities and the country like the World Cup of 1995 united the whole country as well as the African Nations Cup of 1996, but that that lasted only for that period of time. He asked what the department was doing to make those kind of things happen, because they needed it, and said that he wanted an explanation of sports hubs.

Ms J Chalmers (ANC) referred to the department’s presentation that stated that as far as transformation was concerned there was no legal tool to manage that. She asked whether they had put some thought into practical terms how they could facilitate transformation so that there was a legal base. She asked what was happening in the rural areas, in the farm and rural schools in the National Schools Program, and said that the feeling in those schools and areas were of extreme marginalization; that they got scraps from the table when it came to facilities, resources, transport, which maybe should come from the provincial level, as certainly the authorities of those communities came from such a low tax base. She stated that she came from a rural area, and asked if there was a particular program as far as those rural areas were concerned with the focus on how they could really make a difference as far as kids were concerned. She said that enabling disabled persons to be part of the gatherings by making it easier for them to make use of stadiums were important, so they would not think it such a huge obstacle and that it would just be easier to watch it on television when they were needed to be seen to be participating. She added that the television cameras needed to focus on them and show them as participating.

Mr D Gamede said that the department had to acknowledge that there still was segregation between urban and rural areas. The department had also not stated how many disabled persons were employed in senior management positions. Disabled persons insisted that someone who knew and understood their position had to deal with them. How many disabled persons were employed to deal with other disabled persons?

Mr Gamede pointed out that the department mentioned the youth as being from 17-35 years of age, and asked what were they doing for children from 0-16 years old. He referred to the infrastructure backlog, and asked what the department was doing about it. He continued that for public with disabilities infrastructure was a problem and asked why were they spending resources where he personally felt they were not really needed. He highlighted that the National Schools Sports Program always took place in big cities, never in the small towns and asked what the department was doing about that.

The Chairperson referred to children below the age of sixteen, and stated that if there were no teachers who specialized in sports, parents had to take over. If they could not, who then helped with sport activities?

Mr D Hendricks said they were talking about active participation and not vicarious participation. The performances of the paralympics were fantastic, but they were despondent about the performances of athletes at the Olympic Games. South Africans were too win-oriented. At the last Olympic Games they won five medals and were placed 43^rd out of 202 countries and on the gold medal tally, our position was 32^nd. the paralympians outshone that, and came back from Athens with 39 medals and were placed 13^th in the world.

On mass participation and physical education in schools, the problem was that resources were not trickling down to the ground as the federations’ focus was on competitions and elite performances. Access to sport and recreation activities was not a priority. The demise of physical education had impacted on participation in sports and ultimately on the performances of athletes since it was the nursery; the basis from which they built sport infrastructure. Physical education had to re-introduced into schools.

Mr Greg Fredericks (Chief Director) said that the Minister of Sports had signed a collaboration agreement with the Minister of Education on 7 March to ensure that the DOE would reintroduce physical education back into schools. This would be done incrementally and would have huge financial implications for the DOE. He pointed out that they were committed to taking sports events to rural areas, but accommodation was a massive problem. For instance, at the farm and rural school festival they had about 3500 kids, and they could only accommodate them in Johannesburg. They would look at what events could be accommodated in rural areas that did not require infrastructure or large numbers of participants.

The department had approached Treasury for R150 million for a mass school sport participation project. The indications were that they would receive R70 million to reach 1500 schools. Parents would not be expected to pay, because school sport should never be exclusive.

Prof Hendricks said that transformation was taking a long time and large sections of the population were still effectively excluded from participation. In 2003 and 2004 they held indabas which led to the Sports Transformation Charter. However it was clear that the Charter was not legally binding and twice they approached Cabinet with legislation that would empower the Minister to intervene in sports federations for transformation purposes. Cabinet had been reluctant to approve the legislation as it dealt with federations that were associations of volunteers. Cabinet would again be approached to empower the Minister. The department had limited tools, in that they could only withhold funding or refuse a federation’s teams permission to represent the country. Legislation was the last option, but it was clear that self-regulation was not working.

A hub was a centre around which activity took place. There were 136 hubs and the departments’ target was to have more than 3800. If funding was provided to federations they were contractually bound to implement programmes in rural areas. The various programs constituted parts of broader government programs like the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Program, which was where the Mass Participation Nodes were identified. When facilities were built criteria stipulated that it needed to be friendly for utilization by the disabled public.

The National Academy Program intended to nurture talented athletes identified in the Mass Participation Program. Athletes with ability would be identified and sent to a regional sports academy, where their talent was nurtured under ideal circumstances that included medical support, nutritional support and all kinds of medical testing. If talented enough, the athlete would progress to a national academy. They were trying to artificially level the playing field in that way because playing fields would be level only when the socio-economic playing field was levelled and this would take time. He admitted that there were no disabled personnel in the department in senior managing positions, but that the Department of Sport interacted very closely with Disability Sport South Africa, and that influenced their decision-making.

Prof Denver Hendricks stated that the infrastructure backlog amounted to R14 billion and would take 30 years to eliminate. This undermined representivity. Local authorities built clinics, libraries, cemeteries, and would be criticised if they built sports fields, etc. The department would have to persuade municipalities to build those facilities because sport kept the public healthy for a productive workforce and kept children away from crime.

Ms Noma Kotela (Manager: Client Services) said that the National Department of Sport targeted four districts per province where they, together with the provincial departments will identify local communities. The communities then would identify which sports should be developed further, and they would be helped to form structures. Capacity building would then be done through the training of coaches, administrators etc. within those communities. The end product would be clubs participating at league levels, up to district or even provincial level depending on their resources.

Prof Denver Hendricks stated that a pilot project took place in Middeldrift in the Eastern Cape, Activities in a district took place over a period of time and it culminated on Youth Day this year when all the villages came together in a festival of sports. This was the type of activity that they wanted to pilot in all the provinces. He said that they were going to work directly with the communities in conjunction with the provinces and local authorities. Ultimately the intention was that all of the funding that government allocated for sport would be channelled directly to the communities as opposed to through the federations. The federations needed to be assisted by the South African Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (SASCO). SASCO would assist the federations for the elite level of sports participation, but government’s responsibility would be for access.

Mr A F Madella (ANC) asked what interventionist role the department could play to address good governance in sports federations. Could the department intervene in the dispute about venues for the 2010 World Cup? He stated that in disadvantaged communities many sports, known as street sports, took place outside formalized environments and clubs, and asked to what extent the department provided assistance for that. He continued that formalized clubs were not easily accessible due to gate keeping attitudes, so access was not always possible. He said that in certain areas gangs were the government and that they made money available to sponsor street sports to lure those youngsters into crime. He asked if the department could intervene to help informal street sport activities at a grassroots level.

Mr M I Moss (ANC) asked what the department’s goal was in terms of the numbers of participants for the Mass Participation Program by 2010.

Mr D Gamede (ANC) referred to the allocations to federations, and asked whether they had recourse in the event of non-compliance. Since 4 districts per province were chosen for the roll out would they target the presidential nodes? Could the department assist with equipment for the physically challenged?

Prof Denver Hendricks responded that they concluded contracts with the federations for the resources that they received and that the department monitored the federations. They could recover funding or stop it if problems arose. That was not a good solution since the athletes would suffer because of the wrongdoings of an administrator. He admitted that the power struggles being played out in the media was hurting sport. The intervention in this regard had been primarily at a political level, as the department was promoting sport activities on the ground.

The facilities for 2010 were an issue between the local organising committee and FIFA. The department had a 2010 unit that was responsible for coordinating government’s involvement. SAFA had soccer interests at heart, which were not necessarily the broader objectives of community empowerment and development which government has on its agenda.

Mr Greg Fredericks answered that they were aware of the tension in school sport, that they were managing it nationally, that they had very good consultation structures and were very close to delivering quality school sport to communities.

Prof D Hendricks said that school sport culture had to be rebuilt and that a combined effort between the DOE and the Sports Department was needed.

He explained that the Mass Participation Program established the hub and supported them financially for three years in which they had to learn how to survive on their own, maybe with the department supporting their application for lotto funds etc. Those hubs were then to be transformed into sports clubs. He said that they had neglected the urban areas because their focus had been on the nodes and the rural areas, and that the Urban Renewal Strategy should deal with gangsterism in those areas.

Ms Kelly Mkonto said that they hoped the hubs would address street games. Those hubs must be within five kilometres from communities, and could be at schools. She stated that the department had to report on the formation of these hubs and that they would have to teach the public how to run the clubs, so they could be self-sustainable. The numbers for mass participation were still very low. They started with 60 hubs, and had 72 000 sports participants last year, which increased to 102 000 this year, and they hoped for increases to 500 000 by 2006/07. They intended targetting all 3 800 wards in the country and hopefully by 2010 would have 5 million participants.

Mr Greg Fredericks thought communities had lost the fight against gangsterism and this pattern had to be broken so that children could use playing fields and not be confined just to the school building.

Prof Denver Hendricks answered that the National Participation Program included the provision of equipment as well. The previous and current Minister often sourced equipment. There were other avenues like the Sports Trust, which also provided equipment. Lotto funding should also be used to source equipment.

The Chairperson said that the Committee would like to see them again to follow up on some of the questions especially with regard to greater disability involvement.

Presentation by Department of Science and Technology
Dr Lindile Ndabeni, the Director of Human Capital Development, and Deputy Director Mr Joseph Tsikomba conducted the presentation (document attached), in which they stated their hopes to achieve the development and maintenance of a highly competent and representative assemblage of scientists in South Africa. They also gave an overview of the challenges faced in attaining adequate representation of vulnerable groups in the face of the large percentage of SA youth who either left school early or were unemployed. They summarized the need to identify and develop practical interventions through budgetary programs that targeted the youth in SET for FET schools, SET Human Capital, Internships and Experiential Learning and Learnerships. The DST also gave an outline of the SET Programmes for the Development of Human Capital.

Discussion

The Chairperson said that she would like more information on their contribution to general employment and quality of life, technology for poverty reduction and social impact.

Mr A F Madella (ANC) queried the nature of the partnership for funding the University of Stellenbosch, its extent and where the beneficiaries came from. He also asked how big the department’s staff compliment was, how many persons with disabilities were employed as well as where and at what levels they were employed. What was the department doing about unemployed black scientists? Was it possible to quantify the participants in the learnership programs? Did they include persons with disabilities and previously disadvantaged persons?

Mr M I Moss (ANC) said that, considering the cost of wheelchairs, the amount that the department budgeted to assist wheelchair-bound persons was a joke. Did the department help with other assistive devices? What were they doing about stem cell research?

Mr D Gamede asked what research was being conducted to assist disabled persons. What was the department doing to attract young persons to scientific study?

The Chairperson pointed out that assistive devices were very expensive in South Africa and many people could not afford them. She wanted to know if the Department of Science and Technology could work with the Department of Communication to make sub-titles available for everyone. She also asked for an explanation of the digital doorway for the school for the disabled.

Dr Lindile answerd that the department had a staff complement of 209, with only one disabled person. On unemployed scientists, they had allocated R2 million to create databases that included all unemployed scientists in the country to be accessed by prospective employers. He added that they did not just rely on the private sector or other agencies to access the database, but that those scientists they identified were placed in agencies like the Agricultural Research Council for instance, and they linked them to other opportunities of employment.

Mr J. Tshikomba said that they were in the process of finalizing a strategy for someone who wanted to study science. The challenge they faced was that only about 20 000 learners passed maths and science at grade 12 level every year. Very few had access to tertiary education due to financial reasons or otherwise. They had a collaboration agreement with the DOE to increase the numbers by 2008 from 20 000 to 50 000. They would take it further to support them at universities on undergraduate programs. There were programs that targeted postgraduate studies, which was done through the NRF, which reported to the DST. The NRF funding went to post-doctoral studies.

Mr Tshikomba added that he would provide the Committee with a detailed response on technology for poverty reduction and social impact in writing.

Dr Lindile Ndabeni indicated that wheelchairs had to be made more affordable without quality loss. A study would soon be completed on this. He would report back to the Committee on research into other assistive devices.

Mr J. Tshikomba said that they were responsible for the coordination of the National System of Innovation. There were a number of researchers who were directly funded by the department, although they were contracted to do other research with other departments and other agencies.

The Chairperson reminded the department that they still needed to explain the digital doorway for schools as well as the issue of stem cell research.

Mr J. Tshikomba said that the digital doorway was a pilot project that involved computer-aided technology at one school for the physically disabled. It was a digital doorway mechanism at the entrance of buildings and more information would be provided to the Committee at a later stage.

Dr Ndabeni said they would reply to the stem cell research question in writing as they did not have the information with them.

Mr A F Madella (ANC) asked whether any learnerships had been extended to the disabled community. He also wanted more information about technology transfers.

The Chairperson asked for clarity on the out to school program, the career program, the curriculum support program, and whether the Department of Science and Technology visited and provided for schools for the disabled.

Dr Ndabeni answered that it was true that most technology was developed overseas. This was a problem. They now had a National System of Innovation, and the National Advisory Counsel of Innovation, which looked specifically at turning knowledge into innovations that were helpful and improving quality of life. Technology transfer occurred via the Shumishano project which was an initiative to use the knowledge that was generated at Universities of technology to develop enterprises geared to science and technology.

Godisa was a highly technological intervention which was aimed at incubating small enterprise development in the areas of software development enterprises for instance. They created an environment where technological development assisted business development, and produced a product that could be taken into the market. It also addressed access to those technologies. It was an environment where ideas could be tested and taken to the market with the assistance of Godisa and professionals.

Mr J Tsikamba said that an example of technology for poverty reduction was the Cashmere Beneficiation projects in the North West and Eastern Cape. The primary objective was to create a viable cashmere industry by converting the cashmere yarn from the indigenous goat fibre into a high quality cashmere product to improve the quality of the fibre. Farmers were taught correct farm management practices, cashmere harvesting skills and time frames at which goats should be combed, when optimum shearing took place, animal health, breeding, and technologies to identify animals that would produce good cashmere. A year into the project, goat owners have doubled, the livestock improvement program was successful and 60 offspring kids with improved quality fibre had been born.

Dr Ndabeni said that at the Tswane University of Technology there was a program that developed small enterprises in the chemical sector, for example soap manufacturing. At Pretoria Tech there was a project geared towards engineering and software and at the Peninsula University of Technology a project geared towards textile manufacturing. Those kinds of interventions were working and persons were accessing skills and putting them into use and they were creating technology and scientifically related jobs.

Mr J Tsikamba said that they would provide written responses on the out to school programs, curriculum support and provision for schools for the disabled.

The Chairperson said that there were many questions that were not answered, and that they would keep in contact with the department. In a year’s time, they would call the Department of Science and Technology to give them another briefing to see that the quality of life of children, the youth and the disabled public had improved.

The meeting was adjourned.