Public Protector South Africa & Legal Aid SA 2021/22 Annual Performance Plans

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed and thanked all those present. He requested that the Committee be thorough and business-like when dealing with matters. .

Public Protector APP 2021/22

Adv Busisiwe Mkhwebane, Public Protector of South Africa (PPSA), took the Committee through the introductory section of the presentations (see attached).   

The Chairperson expressed the Committee’s condolences to the Public Protector PP for the loss of her mother. He also welcomed the new Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and said that he hoped she would do good work because she was highly recommended. 

Ms Thandi Sibanyoni, CEO of the PPSA, took the Committee through the 2020/25 strategic plan and the 2021/22 section of the presentation:

Administration Targets

The Committee was told that the PPSA planned to achieve clean audit opinions for the financial years of 2021/22, 2022/23 and 2023/24. The implementation of the PPSA’s ICT infrastructure was not applicable for the financial years of 2021/22 and 2023/24. The PPSA planned to implement 100 percent of a case management system for 2022/23 by 31 March 2023.

The plan provided targets for resolving investigation reports and ER, SD and GGI cases over the three-year period.

Investigation targets

For 2021/22, the PPSA planned to finalise one systemic investigation and identify two systemic investigations and interventions. It planned to hold ten bilateral meetings with organs of state on systemic challenges.

For 2022/23, the PPSA planned to finalise two systemic investigations and interventions and hold ten bilateral meetings with organs of state on systemic challenges.

For 2023/24, the PPSA planned to identify two systemic investigations and interventions aand hold ten bilateral meetings with organs of state. 

Stakeholder management targets

For 2021/22, the PPSA planned to execute 42 activities in the implementation of an Integrated Access and Stakeholder Management Strategy. These included 36 radio interviews, five national events and a Good Governance Week. For 2022/23, it planned 245 activities and a further 245 activities were planned for 2023/24.

Expenditure Summary

Ms Yalekile Lusibane, Chief Financial Officer, PPSA, told the Committee that the original budget of the PPSA amounted to R341.8 million. Subsequently, National Treasury implemented budget reductions and the budget for compensation of employees was reduced by R16.1 million. The DOJ and Constitutional Development assisted the institution with an additional R30.5 million in March 2021 in order to deal with financial commitments and obligations. As at 31 March 2021, PPSA had spent 98 percent of its adjusted budget of R356.2 million.

Budget reductions by National Treasury

The presentation detailed the impact a National Treasury proposal to cut the PPSA’s budget by 17 percent would have in its operations.

The Committee heard that the PPSA currently had the following funding needs to maintain effective operations:

Funding of critical positions - During the 2017/18 and 2018/19 financial years, 33 positions became vacant due to resignations. Due to budget constraints, the PPSA could not fill these positions.

Subject matter experts - There was currently a significant demand for subject matter experts when executing complex investigations that required specialised skills in certain areas. These included actuaries, procurement experts, forensic specialists, built environment specialists and ICT specialists.

E-Library - Subscription to the online law library, LexisNexis.

Security Services - The PPSA did not have security services in 17 of its 18 offices across the country. Only the head office had security services. There had been several break-ins and staff had been robbed when they knocked off work late. This posed a threat to staff members, clients and assets. Security in the offices required immediate funding.

Procurement of an Electronic Documents System - The PPSA required an Electronic Document Management system to automate the creation and distribution of documents electronically, which in turn would increase its turnaround times on investigations.

Upgrade of ICT infrastructure - An upgrade of PPSA's ICT infrastructure was urgently needed as the current server was very old and more downtime had been experienced recently, which affected the operations of the PPSA massively.

Discussion

Mr W Horn (DA) referred to the funding needs. He said that although there is a need for funds for the PPSA’s ICT infrastructure, unless it is on the verge of collapse it was not critical in nature. He raised concerns about the funding needs regarding the security of the PPSA’s offices and asked who was currently handling security at the offices and who was carrying the expenses. He noted that in the Annual Performance Plan (APP) there were still a number of ‘‘acting’’ positions and asked if any of these positions had changed. He inquired about the vacancy rate at senior level management. He asked why a performance indicator for engagements with organs of the state had been removed. He commented that the PPSA was a jewel in South Africa’s constitutional crown and asked what alternatives the PP would seek if it was not engaging with other organs of state, because the PPSA could not work on its own. The PPSA was experiencing financial pressure and the Committee was aware of the situation. The Covid-19 pandemic had taught businesses that they required less office and people could work from home. The PPSA was one of the first institutions that was able to function during hard lockdown. He asked what the pandemic had taught the PPSA about needing permanent office space. He said that in the Free State the PPSA had moved offices and asked if the PPSA planned to downsize office space to reduce costs.

     Ms N Maseko-Jele (ANC) appreciated the efforts the PPSA made in reaching its targets. She added to Mr Horn’s comments and said that the PPSA must fill its vacant positions or its work could be derailed.  She noted concerns raised by the PPSA about restrictions on meeting people regarding service delivery issues. She commented on the implementation of complaint drop boxes (CDBs) which would be at courts across the country and asked the PPSA if it had been accomplished. She asked if the PPSA could provide more information on its partnerships and the names of the stakeholders involved. She said that the PPSA acknowledged that South Africa was experiencing financial difficulties and she applauded the budget of the PPSA.  

Ms W Newhoudt-Druchen (ANC) said the CDBs would not only be at the courts but at post offices as well and asked the PPSA if the plan had been implemented. There had been complaints about the irregular expenditure of Covid-19 related funds, involving ten senior managers. She asked the PPSA to update the Committee on these investigations. She inquired about the implementation of a mobile referral application. She asked what the PPSA did to make citizens aware of the mobile app and whether there was public participation. The Public Protector had mentioned that information would be made available on radio and in Braille. She applauded the PPSA for its effort, but it still left out the deaf community. If the Public Protector appeared on TV there needed to be a sign language interpreter or subtitles. 

Mr X Nqola (ANC) raised concerns about the officers used by the PPSA and said that the report continued to state that the PPSA was engaging with government institutions about the use of other offices. This was a very important issue considering the economic situation the country faced. The PPSA continued to raise concerns about budget cuts. He asked whether the PPSA, in its strategic planning, did not seek to find any alternative model for financial resources so that it did not only depend on what National Treasury provided. The Auditor-General of South Africa (AGSA) had an alternative model of financial resources to help it in situations where there were budget cuts by Treasury. He noted that the PPSA had raised the issue of security a number of times and had indicated that the issue was a threat to its work and employees. He said the Committee needed to come up with solutions to assist the PPSA on the security issue. He asked the Public Protector to explain why the implementation of the ICT infrastructure was not applicable in the APP for 2021/22. He said the PPSA had reported in March that it would collaborate with the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) regarding the issue of the shutdown of institutions of higher learning by students. He said that matters concerning students were very important to him and although the shutdown matter had been settled, the issues persisted. He asked the PPSA to update the Committee on its collaboration with the SAHRC.

     Adv G Breytenbach (DA) asked the Public Protector to update the Committee on the PPSA’s investigations of certain senior managers.

Mr R Dyantyi (ANC) commended the PPSA on its work done on the 2021/22 APP. The APP was different from an annual report because an APP was what the PPSA planned to achieve. He asked what in its APP showed that the institution was improving and moving to the next level. He also asked the PPSA what impact the Covid-19 pandemic and the failure to spend had had on the APP. When compiling the APP the PPSA had to conduct an Implementation Risk Assessment (IRA). He asked what capacity risks there were that could delay the implementation of its targets.

Responses

The Public Protector, Adv Mkhwebane, said in response to Mr Horn that the performance indicator he said had been removed was included in the PPSA’s integrated stakeholder strategic plan.

She told Ms Newhoudt-Druchen that in all the PPSA’s engagements with the public there was always a sign language interpreter present.

To Mr Dyantyi she said that the PPSA had re-engineered its operations during the pandemic. A number of its employees were working remotely and on a rotation basis at its offices. This related to the issue of accommodation and how the PPSA could reduce the cost of office space.

On the question about the PPSA moving forward, she said that the vision for 2023 was that all state institutions would have their own internal complaints commissions. The PPSA would monitor the handling of complaints and, with each state institution having a division for complaints, it would assist the PPSA in its work. The PPSA was currently conducting systemic investigations into the City of Tshwane Billing System.  With the implementation of the complaints divisions, the PPSA would look closely at systemic investigations so that it could ensure complaints did not arise again. Public servants needed to do their work and not just rely on the PPSA to deal with complaints. The PPSA should be the last resort in dealing with complaints. She raised concerns about the PPSA’s engagements with other state institutions. There were a number of complaints about the effect of poor administration on service delivery. The PPSA foresaw that not giving state employees a pay increase would have a ripple effect on service delivery and increase complaints to the PPSA.

Adv Kholeka Gcaleka, Deputy Public Protector (DPP), replied to questions about stakeholder management. He said there was a new integrated stakeholder management strategy. It included all the partnerships between the PPSA and state institutions relevant to the work that the PPSA did. The PPSA dealt with a number of Chapter 9 institutions’ investigations into justice administration and service delivery. The strategic plan included sharing office space and sharing information with these institutions. The pandemic had caused the PPSA to interact less with the public. The plan also dealt with cooperative governance and traditional affairs in provinces. It dealt with collaborating with institutions that did similar investigations like the Department of Home Affairs, Department of Justice, the Hawks police unit and the National Prosecuting Agency. These collaborations would help increase the footprint of the PPSA. The PPSA was currently working on memorandums of understanding (MOU’s) with these institutions, which would ensure that the PPSA had an integrated approach in dealing with investigations. The collaborations had started with an investigation along with the SAHRC into the Alexandra Renewal Project. The investigation was nearing completion.

Adv Gcaleka said PPSA was collaborating with the SAHRC on the investigations into institutions of higher learning and the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS). The collaboration with the SAHRC helped to transfer skills, sharing information and comparing case management systems. This had also been done with the South African Police Service (SAPS). The collaborations helped the PPSA to ensure that it focussed its work. The collaborations had enabled the PPSA to finalise over 1 000 matters.  In respect to these the PPSA had to use a developmental approach because other institutions had done normal investigations into the matters. The PPSA looked at poor administration and had to identify if the institutions were able to execute their mandate. This was the reason some projects were not finished on time. The PPSA took a long time to look into the development and the services the institutions required. A number of problems were identified and now the institutions were operating more smoothly.

Ms Sibanyoni, CEO of the PPSA, said a number of positions were vacant. The budget cut by the National Treasury made it difficult to fill the positions. Two vacant posts were funded and the other two were unfunded. There were a number of ‘‘acting’’ positions. The vacancy in the Western Cape was a result of the official being on sick leave and the PPSA was dealing with the matter. On the issue of office space, she said the PPSA wanted to share offices with the Departments of Justice (DOJ). The DOJ had given the PPSA a list of magistrates’ offices which it could use. When the PPSA office lease agreements ended it would occupy the spaces identified. The PPSA had offices it wanted to occupy fully and others it wanted to use as satellite space to increase the footprint of the PPSA. The Post Office was another state organ which had offices which the PPSA could utilise.

Ms Sibanyoni said the implementation of complaint drop boxes (CBDs) was underway.  Post Office boxes that were not currently used would be used for the CDBs instead of procuring other boxes. The CDBs would be put at magistrates’ offices, post offices and at SA Social Security Agency (SASSA) offices. They would be collected by the PPSA. The PPSA planned to complete the project by the second quarter of 2021.

On the question of an alternative revenue generating model, she said the PPSA had developed a model and submitted it to the National Treasury. The PPSA will engage further with the Treasury. Legislation allowed the AGSA to seek alternative funding, but the legislation on the PPSA was not that generous. The PPSA would submit proposals for amendment of its legislation.

On the budget cuts, she said the DPSA had conducted a work study. It looked at ways of conducting investigations which would lead to cost containment.

She told Adv Breytenbach that the PPSA was proceeding with investigations into certain senior managers. The PPSA would update the Committee as soon as the matter had been dealt with.

Ms Lusibane, CFO of the PPSA, told Ms Newhoudt-Druchen that the PPSA had planned to implement a mobile referral app in the previous financial year. Two procurement processes were unsuccessful. The PPSA requested the National Treasury to allow deviation in order to engage a State Owned Entity (SOE). The PP had received a response from the Treasury and the project would be implemented.

In response to Mr Nqola’s question about the ICT infrastructure, she said the PPSA required R10.5 million. The PPSA could not commit to implementing this target because it did not have enough funding.

On the security issue she said that the only physical security the PPSA had was at the head office where it was paying for a private service provider. The PPSA had video security systems at its offices and needed to improve on them because it took a while for armed response guards to arrive at the offices. There were threats to employees and documentation of the PPSA due to a lack of security.

The Chairperson said the PPSA was performing a valuable service. The Committee did not support budget cuts at Chapter 9 institutions. He said that the situation of the country’s economy was getting worse. Adding to Mr Horn’s comments, he said that the PPSA should have learned from the situation the pandemic put the country in. The PPSA needed to improve its strategy to reduce costs related to office size and ICT because the pandemic had taught the country to be more creative when conducting business. He said that even Parliament had a lot to learn and that the PPSA must take out the positives from the pandemic. He noted that the PPSA had alluded to an alternative revenue generating model and amending legislation. He said that the PPSA must take a holistic approach because the idea was not aligned with the constitution of 1996. The issue must be a matter of urgency. He commended the PPSA for achieving a clean audit opinion and said that it was linked to an improved performance by the PPSA. He noted that there was an improvement in performance indicators from 72 percent to 79 percent in the previous financial year. He wanted that to improve to 84 percent in the next financial year and to be above 95 percent when the Committee’s term of office ended.

Ms Maseko-Jele said that she did not hear the response on the CDBs.

Adv Gcaleka said that the PPSA was engaging with the DOJ on the matter. There were courts in each district and the public would be able to access the CDBs.

The Chairperson commended the PPSA again and said that next year it should brief the Committee on its innovations and systemic investigations.

Legal Aid APP 2021/22

Ms Mantiti Kola, CEO, Legal Aid South Africa (LASA) took the Committee through a detailed presentation. 

In programme one LASA planned to deliver quality legal aid services in criminal matters that were client-focused, particularly for indigent and vulnerable persons.

Programme two planned to deliver quality, client-focused legal aid, including to indigent and vulnerable persons, in civil matters with a priority focus on land and other constitutional rights.

Programme three planned to deliver quality, client-focused legal advice services.

Programme four planned to undertake strategic litigation, particularly in social justice related matters, in order to give content to the rights enshrined in the Constitution. The aim was to increase access to justice for indigent and vulnerable persons.

Programme five planned to participate in justice cluster forums to contribute to improving the efficient functioning of the justice system. The intended outcome was promoting the rule of law and increasing access to justice.

Programme six planned to account and provide assurance to the Executive Authority (the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services) and Parliament on performance, governance and sustainability.

Programme seven planned to continuously improve financial planning (budgeting) including managing the budget cuts to ensure a balanced budget.

Programme eight planned to maintain and practice financial management and reporting to ensure unqualified audit outcomes and high financial maturity.

Programme nine planned to maintain the best governance practices - PFMA compliance, King IV guidelines and other relevant statutory requirements.

Programme ten planned to maintain and enhance independent monitoring and oversight. The aim was to sustain strong financial management and supply chain and asset management practices. 

Programme 11 planned to implement an effective and strategic Board providing leadership and oversight of sustainable performance. The outcome for programme 11 looked to consolidate and review the resourcing of LASA’s national footprint to ensure adequate staffing, as well as safe and secure facilities for clients and staff, within available resources.

Programme 12 planned to ensure that the Legal Aid Act (LAA), Legal Aid Regulations and Legal Aid Manual were reviewed to ensure relevance to changes in the environment. The aim was to strengthen and continuously improve the quality and expertise in each segment of the national footprint.

Programme 13 planned to maintain an efficient supply chain management framework and practices. The aim was to enhance and maintain an integrated and service and client-oriented and secured Information Technology system with capacity to integrate stakeholders.

Programme 14 planned to allocate staff appropriately to all LASA offices, within available resources.

Programme 15 looked to strengthen and continuously improve the quality and expertise for each segment of the national footprint.

Programme 16 was an annual review and approval of IT strategy, IT architecture, IT maturity and IT Policies.

Budget 2021/22

The Committee heard that LASA, like all state funded institutions, had experienced a reduction in budget allocations over the previous Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) periods. The total reduction since 2015/16 was R449 million. This had a negative impact on service delivery as 80 percent of the budget was spent on employee costs. Legal practitioners made up 79 percent of the total staff component.

Budget allocated for 2021/22 and 2023/24

The Committee heard that the decline in funding was continuing in the current MTEF. The 2021/22 budget allocation was cut by 8.26 percent and it was expected that further cuts of 9.98 percent and 5.48 percent would be effected in 2022/23 and 2023/24 financial years respectively. The total cut over the current MTEF period was R534.670 million.

Impact on criminal legal aid service delivery

It was envisaged that district court coverage would reduce from 86 percent to 81.3 percent. Regional Court coverage would reduce from 94 percent to 90.1 percent. The reduction in court coverage would result in various challenges.  Further, there were no additional staff available to provide for relief capacity should a legal aid practitioner become unavailable for any reason.

Impact on civil legal aid service delivery

At the end of the 2019/2020 financial year, LASA had dealt with 51 177 new civil matters and carried a pending workload of 57 392. Both exceeded the capacity target of 45 173.

A total number of 2 732 clients had to be given a waiting period in the 2019/2020 year as local offices had reached their capacity. This represented a 12 percent increase from the previous year. 

This indicated that the demand for civil assistance had increased while LASA was already operating at capacity. There was a further reduction in capacity of 2 750 matters in 2021/22 to 42 423 matters.

Discussion

Mr Horn said that reports by LASA indicated that Judicare was used only when LASA deemed it not financially viable to send its employees to court. He noted that LASA had indicated that its representation in regional courts would be reduced. He asked what impact a drastic budget cut for Judicare would have on people in rural areas having access to legal representation. He asked what impact the budget cuts would have on cases in regional courts where the accused could not afford legal representations and the court ordered that the accused must have legal representation by LASA. He indicated that LASA had been deemed as employers of choice in the legal fraternity. However, it had not been a good environment to work in lately. He asked what LASA planned to do to develop staff and support their emotional well-being. He asked LASA to provide feedback on how it planned to retain skilled employees and its internal capacity.

Adv Breytenbach added to Mr Horn’s comments by saying that she was concerned how the budget cuts would impact access to justice in deep rural areas and court rolls. The budget cuts would have a ripple effect of court cases being postponed and cases not being prosecuted because the accused in the cases had the right to legal representation. She asked LASA what it planned to do to mitigate the impact the budget cuts would have on the justice system. LASA had indicated that legal practitioners would have more matters in their inboxes. The matters were not simple, because some practitioners appeared in the high courts. She said all the matters for the accused in cases were serious issues and added to the pressure for the legal practitioner to perform. There was no substitute for the legal practitioner. If the practitioner fell ill the case was delayed, adding to the backlog on court rolls. As a result of this the mental well-being of practitioners would suffer. She said that LASA was bordering on unfair labour practices in putting so much pressure on practitioners. She asked LASA what the average caseload per practitioner was in general and what the average load would be because of the budget cuts.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen raised concerns about the budget cuts. The most vulnerable people would be affected because they relied on LASA to assist them with cases and would have to languish in prisons for longer periods because they could not get bail. With vacant staff positions and pending retrenchments, what did LASA plan to do to boost morale of its staff? She noted the decrease of 13.6 percent in LASA’s cases and asked what the reason for this was. She asked how many of LASA’s employees were infected with Covid-19 and what unexpected expenditure LASA had incurred because of the pandemic.

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what the reason was for the fluctuations in civil cases for the financial years from 2015/16 to 2019/20. The survivors of gender-based violence (GBV) struggled to get access to justice, legal aid and council services. Things had been difficult during the pandemic and she wanted to know why GBV survivors struggled to access these services.

Mr S Swart (ACDP) agreed with comments that LASA’s budget cuts were deeply concerning and would have an impact on access to justice and courts. He commented on the taking over of legal representation in land matters. The presenter had said it would be done according to the budget. However, he had raised the issue with the Minister and understood that LASA’s budget must follow the function of the Department of Agriculture (DOA). He said it was on record that the Committee suggested that LASA be involved in legal representation on land matters. He requested that the Committee follow up on negotiations between LASA and the DOA. It was important because with the budget cuts LASA was experiencing, funds would have to come from the DOA where legal representation on land matters was involved. 

The Chairperson asked to what extent LASA was leveraging partnerships with other institutions like legal aid clinics in universities and other legal entities to increase LASA’s footprint. He asked if LASA was part of the online legal system and if not why. He asked what effects the rolling out of sexual offences courts, commercial courts and Land Court Bill (LCB) would have on LASA.

Responses

Mr Brian Nair, National Operations Executive, LASA, said in response to Mr Horn's question about Judicare budget cuts that, in the previous year, LASA had received an additional R20 million for Judicare. Because of the pandemic, LASA had to give back the R20 million. It had not had an impact on LASA because it was an addition to the funding that it already had. He said that Judicare was used where there was a conflict of interest in cases and where LASA did not have resources to use its employees for court cases.

On the impact of budget cuts in rural areas, he said that the LASA planned to have partners in rural agencies. LASA would contact the agency to represent it in courts in the agency’s area.

Mr Nair replied to Adv Breytenbach’s questions about the impact of the budget cuts on the workload of legal practitioners. He said that LASA could not refuse to give anyone legal representation. There would be an impact on the backlog of court cases if matters were. He said that LASA was budgeting according to the zero percent increase in cost of living as guided by the National Treasury and had to sacrifice over 1 100 posts. Management had to align the supply of legal aid to the demand of courts. In the current financial year the budget cuts would not have an impact on the coverage that LASA had in courts. The pandemic assisted in reducing the number of cases. LASA was working at a reduced capacity and would not contribute significantly to the backlog of court cases.

On the question of pending matters per practitioner, in the district courts practitioners were achieving 94 percent of the target for matters handled. In regional courts practitioners were achieving 74 percent of the target. In high courts practitioners reached their targets of 50 matters.

On the impact of the pandemic on LASA, he replied because of hard lockdown, LASA was unable to provide services to clients and this caused delays in helping incarcerated clients. There had been an increase in the number of detainees that had been in custody for more than two years from 2 000 to over 4 000 because of the pandemic delaying cases. He said that the backlog of cases at district courts was now being handled. However, the backlog of cases at regional and high courts remained high.

Mr Nair said he did not know what section of the presentation was referred to in the question about the fluctuation of court cases. Ms Newhoudt-Druchen said that the question she asked did not refer to the presentation. It came from research the Committee had done.

Mr Nair replied that the decrease in the number of cases that LASA handled in 2020/21 was because of the Covid-19 pandemic. There was restricted access to courts and this helped LASA while working at a reduced capacity to handle matters in this period smoothly. The number of cases would increase when courts functioned fully and LASA would then feel the effects of the budget cuts.  

Ms Kola, CEO of LASA, dealt with questions about staff morale and mental wellness. During the pandemic LASA had worked to provide a conducive working environment for legal practitioners because there were added pressures from their workload. She said eight of its employees had died from Covid-19 and 344 employees had been infected. LASA had spent R12 million because of the pandemic. The bulk of the money went towards data usage so that employees could work remotely.

The Chairperson conveyed his condolences to LASA for the deaths because of the Covid-19 virus.

Ms Maseko-Jele said in reference to Ms Newhoudt-Druchen’s question that the Committee was thorough and did not only ask questions relating to the presentation. The Committee members did research on reports LASA had presented previously in order to ensure consistency in the work LASA did. 

Mr Patrick Hundermark, Chief Legal Executive, LASA, said the fluctuation in case numbers could be attributed to better screening of criminal cases from the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA). LASA had decided to be involved in 13 percent of civil cases in courts. Due to the reductions in the MTEF, LASA had to reduce its capacity. LASA currently had 50 105 matters outstanding and had a capacity of 43 000. The number of matters LASA was involved in had to be aligned to its capacity. Outstanding matters had increased from 17 to 40 percent in a period of 18 months. There was a plan to manage the vacancy rates so that when budget cuts occurred there was no need to retrench employees. LASA wanted to avoid the impact of retrenchment on the lives of people.

Replying to the question about GBV survivors, he said LASA did not provide counselling services to survivors. One issue with legal representation was that in some cases LASA represented the perpetrator as well as the survivor. Another issue was that the NPA should represent the interests of the DBV survivor. There should be a compensation fund for survivors of GBV because it was not guaranteed that the accused, after being convicted, would be able to compensate the survivor of the crime.

On leveraging partnerships, he said that LASA had nine cooperation partners. They included legal aid clinics in universities. Budget cuts had had an impact. LASA provided funding to universities for attorney candidates and for legal practitioners to have access to the legal field. The partners would be found in areas where LASA did not have coverage and in specialised areas. Lasa also supported cases that other institutions were involved in. 

In response to the question about online systems, Mr Hundermark said that LASA had extended its Microsoft licences. Legal practitioners were able to conduct work on Google Teams and Zoom platforms. Court proceedings had to be done face to face, but postponements and other arrangements regarding cases were done online. There were plans to move all court systems and filing systems to an online platform.

Mr Hundermark said LASA had started an initiative to provide assistance and advice to paralegals in communities. If members of rural communities required legal assistance, LASA would help. LASA had 64 satellite offices and had started an initiative to send its paralegals out to communities so that the services of LASA were not confined to its offices.

Mr Swart said he had not had a response to his question about the transferring of land and LASA’s engagements with the DOA.

Ms Kola replied that the DOJ would coordinate matters relating to the transferring of land. Mr Hundermark and LASA’s Chief Financial Officer, Ms Precious Mbingo, were part of the task team coordinating the transfers. The board of LASA had stressed that funds needed to be made available to execute these transfers. LASA was negotiating with the DOA on this issue.

Judge Motsamai Makume, Chairperson Of the LASA Board, thanked the Committee for its questions and said any further questions could be submitted in writing. 

The Chairperson said that LASA was one of the best entities the Committee worked with. He said that the Committee should assist LASA with its engagements with the DOJ, because the Committee did not like endless engagement. There should be a start date and an end date. If needed, the DOJ, DOA and LASA should brief the Committee on their engagements.

The Committee did not support budget cuts if they would have an impact on the work of LASA and, more importantly, affect the indigent people of the country. It would affect social cohesion if cases were not prosecuted successfully. The Committee understood the economic situation, but LASA was an important part of the legal system.

The Chairperson told the Committee that the Deputy Minister had informed it of the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill which had a deadline to be finalised by December 2021. The Bill needed to be prioritised. The Committee would have to review its programme to include the Bill.

Mr Swart said the Committee is already under pressure with its workload. Adv Breytenbach said that the Committees could review the programme. However, it was fully packed and everything was important. She suggested that nothing must be left out of the current programme. The Committee should find additional time and extend its hours.

The Chairperson said that the Committee would be briefed by the Department on the Bill. It was very important because the amendments would have huge legislative consequences.  

Mr Horn noted the concerns of Adv Breytenbach and suggested that the Committee suspend an item on its current programme to include the Bill. 

The Chairperson said that it might not be necessary. He and the Committee’s secretary would revise the programme and present it to the Committee for adoption.

The meeting was adjourned.