SAHRC vacancies: interviews day 2

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Justice and Correctional Services

10 March 2021
Chairperson: Mr G Magwanishe (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Video: Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services [NA] 

Media Statement: Justice and Correctional Services Committee Shortlists Candidates for SAHRC

The Committee interviewed the shortlisted candidates in a virtual meeting to fill two full-time positions at the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC). The vacancies arose following the death of the SAHRC  Deputy Chairperson, Ms Priscilla Jana, and the end of term of Adv Mohamed Shafie Ameermia. There were 59 nominations and applications and the six shortlisted candidates interviewed on Day 2 of interviews were: Adv Mohamed Shafie Ameermia, Ms Fatima Ismail Chohan, Mr Leonardus Kolbe Joubert, Ms Vidhu Vedalankar, Mr Moss Ntlha and Ms Nomahlubi Khwinana.

The interview panel disagreed about replacing a panel members with an alternate member as they were concerned about the legal ramifications. The Committee agreed to proceed with the interviews and the missing panel member joined the meeting.

Meeting report

Members briefly discussed if Ms Msane would be joining the interview panel as she needed to be present to conclude the work that she began.

Ms Y Yako (EFF) said she would be taking over from Ms Msane who was unable to attend. She had been briefed on the performance of all the candidates interviewed on the previous day.

Adv G Breytenbach (DA) said she had a problem with this as the reason for the panel was to form a judgement on performance, body language and demeanour which was all factored into the weighting of a candidate. The panel should ideally remain the same. These types of nuances are lost in a simple briefing. She did not want the interviews to be completed and then challenged on a point of procedure. The Committee should consider this carefully.

Ms J Mofokeng (ANC) said she agreed with Ms Breytenbach. This information was made clear to Ms Msane the previous day. She was not comfortable to proceed with Ms Yako.

Ms Yako said Ms Msane would join the meeting.

The Chairperson said this would be appreciated as it would have serious legal ramifications.

He apologised for the delay in order to ensure that no candidate would be disadvantaged.

Ms Msane had not joined the meeting by the time the interview had to begin and Members agreed to proceed without her given the time constraints.

Candidate 1: Adv Mohamed Shafie Ameermia
The Chairperson asked the candidate, if appointed, can he convince the Committee he would be able to step into the role. He asked the candidate to tell the Committee about himself, his values and experience. He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or was ever declared insolvent.

He asked if the candidate believed in gender equality.

Why should the candidate be appointed as a male when there was only one woman commissioner at present?

Adv Breytenbach said she was interested in the candidate's response to the gender parity question. The candidate said he supported gender equality. His response was that he thought this issue should be addressed, but not with him. It did not make sense that he suggested a complete outsider be appointed as Deputy Chairperson of the Commission who would have no institutional knowledge. The candidate did not need to comment on her observation if he did not desire to.

She asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would he like to leave?

Mr S Swart (ACDP) asked the candidate about his understanding of the Commission's constitutional duty and key statutory mandate, powers and functions. What is the candidate's understanding of the powers that the SAHRC has to fulfil its mandate. The SAHRC has faced many challenges in fulfilling its mandate. Having been a part-time Commissioner, can you share some of those challenges and how you would mitigate those should you be appointed. How would the candidate deal with the budgetary constraints facing the SAHRC. Section 184(3) of the Constitution states that the Commission must require relevant organs of state to provide it with information on the measures they have taken towards the realisation of rights annually such as the rights to housing, water, food and social security. How would the candidate ensure that the relevant organs of state fulfil this mandate going forward. The SAHRC previously complained that this information was not given to it.

Ms Mofokeng said she has known Adv Ameermia from 1995 and was in the same election with him and also worked with him. She asked the candidate what could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, xenophobia and related intolerances and gender-based violence and femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. She asked about the SAHRC relationship with the other Chapter 9 institutions. Does the candidate think the public understands the role of the Chapter 9 institutions.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked for the candidate's view on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights challenges that have emerged during the pandemic. Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough? Are there lessons that could be learnt? Each Commissioner has a focus area, what has been the candidate's focus area as a Commissioner and what focus areas would the candidate like to consider in future?

Ms T Msane (EFF) joined the meeting and asked what innovations he would wish to introduce in the human rights space as his legacy if appointed. How does the candidate plan on bringing the interests of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe his leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when he has successfully led and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Can the candidate give an example of successfully using a democratic centralism leadership style? What support skills does the candidate think are most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of an organisation such as the Commission?

Mr X Nqola (ANC) asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights – does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society. Why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right?   

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners.

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. Has the SAHRC been successful in executing its mandate and why? Why should the panel recommend the candidate given that he has already served in the Commission? In the candidate's view, what are one or two focus areas requiring improvement at the SAHRC. How would the candidate execute plans in the context of the new normal with much fewer resources. He asked about the candidate's previous experience in handling complaints at the Commission.

Ms N Maseko-Jele (ANC) said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. Some people do not have access to water and flush toilets. People are now reporting this to the media. What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access to and awareness of human rights? She asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of the role of the SAHRC?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if he was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing himself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.


Candidate 2: Ms Fatima Chohan
The Chairperson asked the candidate, if appointed, can he convince the Committee he would be able to step into the role. He asked the candidate to tell the Committee about herself, her values and experience. He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or if she was ever declared to be insolvent. He asked if the candidate knew what the salary of a Commissioner was?

Adv Breytenbach asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would she like to leave?

Ms Mofokeng asked the candidate what role the National Assembly has in supporting the SAHRC? She asked the candidate what could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, xenophobia and related intolerances and gender-based violence and femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. She asked about the SAHRC relationship with the other Chapter 9 institutions. Does the candidate think the public understands the role of the Chapter 9 institutions.

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked the candidate what her view was on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights issues that have emerged during the pandemic. Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough? Are there lessons learnt which should be learnt? Each Commissioner has a focus area, what focus areas would the candidate like to consider?

Mr Swart asked the candidate about the Commission's constitutional duty and key statutory mandate, powers and functions. What is the candidate's understanding of the powers that the SAHRC has to fulfil its mandate. The SAHRC has faced many challenges in fulfilling its mandate. Share some of those challenges and how you would mitigate those should you be appointed. How would the candidate deal with the budgetary constraints facing the SAHRC? Section 184(3) of the Constitution states that the SAHRC must require organs of state to provide the Commission with information on the measures taken towards the realisation of rights annually such as the rights to housing, water, food and social security. How would the candidate ensure that these organs of state fulfil this mandate going forward as the SAHRC has previously complained that this information was not given to it.

Mr Nqola asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights, does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society in general and why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right? 

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? She said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access to and awareness of human rights? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of her understanding of the role of the SAHRC?

Ms Msane said keeping the legacy the candidate would like to leave in mind, what innovations would she wish to introduce in the human rights space if appointed and how does the candidate plan on bringing knowledge and interest of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe her leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when she has successfully led and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Which supporting skills does the candidate think is most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of such as organisation?

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners.

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. Has the SAHRC been successful in executing its mandate and why? Share with the panel one major challenge that stood out in the Annual Report of the Commission?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if she was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing herself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.

Candidate 3: Leonardus Kolbe Joubert  
The Chairperson said he had served on the Portfolio Committee of Justice and Constitutional Development with the candidate until 2009.

He asked the candidate to tell the Committee about himself, his values and experience. He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or if he was ever declared to be insolvent.

He asked if the candidate was aware of the salary of a Commissioner.

Adv Breytenbach asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would he like to leave?

Mr Swart asked the candidate about the Commission's constitutional duty and key statutory mandate, powers and functions. What is the candidate's understanding of the powers that the SAHRC has to fulfil its mandate. The SAHRC has faced many challenges in fulfilling its mandate. Share some of those challenges and how you would mitigate those should you be appointed. How would the candidate deal with the budgetary constraints facing the SAHRC? Section 184(3) of the Constitution states that the SAHRC must require organs of state to provide the Commission with information on the measures taken towards the realisation of rights annually such as the rights to housing, water, food and social security. How would the candidate ensure that these organs of state fulfil this mandate going forward as the SAHRC has previously complained that this information was not given to it.

Mr Nqola asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights – does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society. Why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right?   

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? She said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access to and awareness of human rights? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of his understanding of the role of the SAHRC?

Ms Mofokeng asked the candidate what role the National Assembly had in supporting the SAHRC? Does the candidate believe the Commission has been successful in conducting education programs? What would the candidate do differently. What could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerances and Gender-Based Violence and Femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. She asked what suggestions the candidate had to improve the public’s understanding of the role of the Chapter 9 Institutions?

Ms Msane asked what innovations he would wish to introduce in the human rights space as his legacy if appointed. How does the candidate plan on bringing the interests of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe his leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when he has successfully led and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Can the candidate give an example of successfully using a democratic centralism leadership style? What support skills does the candidate think are most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of an organisation such as the Commission?

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked the candidate what her view was on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights issues that have emerged during the pandemic. Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough? Each Commissioner has a focus area, what focus areas would the candidate like to consider in future?

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners. Section 193 of the Constitution states that the Public Protector and Members of the SAHRC must be women or men who are fit and proper. Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. Why should the panel recommend the candidate and what value would he bring to the Commission? Based on the Commission's reports, what has stood out to be a failure of the Commission in the candidate's view? How would the candidate fix this if appointed. Has the SAHRC been successful in executing its mandate and performs well?

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners.

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. Has the SAHRC been successful in executing its mandate and why?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if he was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing himself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.

Candidate 4: Ms Vidhu Vedalankar
The Chairperson asked her how she convince the Committee that she would be able to step into the role if appointed as Commissioner. He asked the candidate to tell the Committee about herself, her values and experience. He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or if she was ever declared to be insolvent. He asked if the candidate knew what the salary of a Commissioner was.

Adv Breytenbach asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would she like to leave?

Ms Mofokeng asked the candidate what the role of the Commission was in supporting Parliament and what role the National Assembly had in supporting the SAHRC? What could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerances and Gender-Based Violence and Femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. She asked what suggestions the candidate had to improve the public’s understanding of the role of the Chapter 9 Institutions?

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access and awareness of human rights? She asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? She said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. What has South Africa already achieved? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of her understanding of the role of the SAHRC?

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked the candidate what her view was on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights issues that have emerged during the pandemic. Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough?

Mr Nqola asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights, does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society in general and why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right? 

Ms Msane said keeping the legacy the candidate would like to leave in mind, what innovations would she wish to introduce in the human rights space if appointed and how does the candidate plan on bringing knowledge and interest of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe her leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when she has successfully led and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Which supporting skills does the candidate think is most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of such as organisation?

Mr Swart asked the candidate about the Commission's constitutional duty and key statutory mandate, powers and functions. What is the candidate's understanding of the powers that the SAHRC has to fulfil its mandate. The SAHRC has faced many challenges in fulfilling its mandate. Share some of those challenges and how you would mitigate those should you be appointed. How would the candidate deal with the budgetary constraints facing the SAHRC? Section 184(3) of the Constitution states that the SAHRC must require organs of state to provide the Commission with information on the measures taken towards the realisation of rights annually such as the rights to housing, water, food and social security. How would the candidate ensure that these organs of state fulfil this mandate going forward as the SAHRC has previously complained that this information was not given to it.

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners. 

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. There are three women applying and they are looking at a combination of race and youth. Why should the candidate be appointed?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if she was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing herself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.

Candidate 5: Mr Moss Ntlha [14:35-1:19:20].
The Chairperson asked the candidate to tell the Committee about himself, his values and experience. Why should the candidate be appointed? He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or if he was ever declared to be insolvent. He asked if the candidate was aware of the salary of a Commissioner.

Mr Nqola asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights – does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society. Why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right?   

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access to and awareness of human rights? She said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. What has South Africa already achieved? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of his understanding of the role of the SAHRC?

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners.

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. Why should the panel recommend the candidate and what value would he bring to the Commission? Based on the Commission's reports, what has stood out to be a failure of the Commission in the candidate's view? How would the candidate fix this if appointed?

Mr Swart said he has known Mr Ntlha for a number of years. Given the candidate's experience on the CRL Commission, there are a number of challenges facing Chapter 9 institutions in general. The SAHRC is facing certain budgetary challenges. How would the candidate address these challenges and the Commission's efficiency in reaching out to communities, given these budgetary constraints? What is the candidate's view on collapsing the Chapter 9 institutions under the SAHRC? Would this improve efficiency? What role can faith-based organisations play in promoting human rights and alleviating poverty in the nation? What are the challenges in the engagement between the SAHRC and the Executive?

Adv Breytenbach asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would he like to leave?

Ms Msane said keeping the legacy the candidate would like to leave in mind, what innovations would she wish to introduce in the human rights space if appointed and how does the candidate plan on bringing knowledge and interest of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe her leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when she has successfully led and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Which supporting skills does the candidate think is most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of such as organisation?

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked the candidate what her view was on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights issues that have emerged during the pandemic. Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough? Each Commissioner has a focus area, what focus areas would the candidate like to consider in future?

Ms Mofokeng asked the candidate what could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerances and Gender-Based Violence and Femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. What is the role of the Commission in supporting Parliamentary processes? What role does the National Assembly have in supporting the SAHRC. She asked what suggestions the candidate had to improve the public’s understanding of the role of the Chapter 9 Institutions?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if he was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing himself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.

Candidate 6: Ms Nomahlubi Khwinana
The Chairperson asked the candidate to tell the Committee about herself, her values and experience. He asked if the candidate had a criminal record or if she was ever declared to be insolvent. He asked if the candidate knew what the salary of a Commissioner was.

Adv Breytenbach asked why the candidate thought the Constitution requires the Commission to be independent and impartial and why does it protect the Commission's independence. If the candidate is appointed as Commissioner, what legacy would she like to leave?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate said the judiciary should also account to the SAHRC?

Ms Mofokeng asked what could be done by the SAHRC to combat the scourge of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerances and Gender-Based Violence and Femicide which are undermining South Africa’s human rights culture. She asked what suggestions the candidate had to improve the public’s understanding of the role of the Chapter 9 Institutions?

Ms Newhoudt-Druchen asked the candidate what her view was on the critical human rights issues facing South Africa. Each Commissioner has a focus area, what focus areas would the candidate like to consider in future? Given the COVID-19 pandemic, there are serious limitations on the Commission. This has placed the spotlight on the role of the state during the pandemic. What is the candidate's view on the key human rights issues that have emerged during the pandemic? Has the SAHRC response to the COVID-19 pandemic been enough?

Ms Msane asked what innovations would she wish to introduce in the human rights space if appointed and how does the candidate plan on bringing knowledge and interest of South African youth into the human rights space. If appointed, the candidate would need to lead others. How would the candidate describe her leadership style. The candidate should provide an example of when she has successfully lead and how has this leadership benefitted the ordinary South African? Which supporting skills does the candidate think is most effective when it comes to supporting leadership of an Organisation such as the Human Rights Council?

Mr Dyantyi asked the candidate which section of the Constitution deals with the appointment of Commissioners. He asked if the candidate was guessing.

Mr Dyantyi said Section 193 of the Constitution states: "the members of any Commission established by this Chapter must be women or men who ­are South African citizens; are fit and proper persons to hold the particular office". Why does it emphasise women or men and not a person? What is the candidate's understanding of a fit and proper person? He asked if the candidate was a fit and proper candidate for the position. The candidate described herself as a victim of human rights abuses. This struck him. He asked if the candidate overcame victimhood. The candidate would be expected to be a champion of victims of human rights abuse. The candidate should also be able to understand and relate to those who abuse other people’s rights. The person appointed cannot behave as a victim.

Ms Maseko-Jele asked what the candidate thought were some of South Africa’s achievements in advancing human rights? What innovative means would the candidate adopt to promote access to and awareness of human rights? She said many communities are still marginalised and do not have full access to human rights and may lack awareness. What has South Africa already achieved? How would the candidate handle complaints that may be potentially politically sensitive or controversial in light of his understanding of the role of the SAHRC?

Mr Nqola asked if the SAHRC has a role to play in promoting social cohesion in the country. The Commission has been criticised for not having the teeth to execute its mandate and doing nothing to protect and promote human rights – does the candidate think this narrative is correct or justified? What does the candidate think the Commission should do to improve cooperation and coordination with other Chapter 9 institutions and civil society. Why does the candidate think this coordination will be of importance. What is a justifiable and reasonable limitation of a human right?   

The Chairperson asked if the candidate thought the questions were fair and if she was happy with the way the interview unfolded. He thanked the candidate for availing herself for the interview. The candidate would be advised as soon as a decision is made.

After the interviews, the Chairperson made brief closing remarks.

Ms Msane apologised unconditionally for coming late and the Committee accepted the apology.

The meeting was adjourned.

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