First Term 2023 Committee Programme; Upstream Petroleum Resources Development Bill provincial public hearings programme

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Mineral Resources and Energy

29 November 2022
Chairperson: Mr S Luzipo (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

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The Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy was meant to be joined by the Minister in the Presidency on the Just Transition Energy Fund. The briefing by the Ministry in the Presidency was rescheduled to the following week.

The Committee considered and adopted the first term programme for 2023 with a few alterations made to the programme.

The Committee considered the proposed programme for the public hearings on the Upstream Petroleum Development Bill. The Committee will visit all 9 provinces. The programme will start in February and conclude at the end of June.

The Committee was mindful that it must find new areas for public hearings and avoid going to the same places they have been to already. In addition, it agreed that aligning oversight duties with time for public hearings is the best way the Committee could utilise the public hearings time.

Meeting report

The Chairperson greeted the Committee and noted apologies from Mr Zungula and Mr Kula.

Mr M Mahlaule (ANC) reminded the chairperson that they belong to the Section 194 Committee which begins at 09:30 this morning. He alerted the Chairperson that he will simultaneously be attending this Committee meeting and the section 194 committee meeting and his attention will therefore be divided.

The Chairperson sent condolences to Mr Kula (his wife was murdered) on behalf of the Committee and urged the Committee to visit and support Mr Kula during this devastating time. They will keep him in their prayers. He hoped that they will know the funeral arrangements later that day.

He stated that they are at the end of the year for the work of the Committee. He hoped Members will have the same vigour in the new year.  The Committee awaits the results of the labour survey and look at how the energy industry has done in terms of job creation and job shedding.  

Minister in the Presidency Letter

The Committee turned to the letter from the Minister in the Presidency to the Chairperson of the Committee requesting a rescheduling of the briefing on the just energy transition fund. This reschedule is due to the fact that the Minister in the Presidency and the Director General are hosting a Green Hydrogen summit.

The Chairperson suggested that the briefing be scheduled for Tuesday, 6 December 2022.

This suggestion was supported by Mr Mahlaule and Ms V Malinga (ANC).

The Chairperson requested that the information be forwarded to the Presidency.

First Term Committee Programme

The Committee turned to the Committee’s projected programme for the 1st term of 2023.

The Committee would start with the public hearings on the Upstream Petroleum Development Bill on 16 February. The Committee would target weekends to hold these hearings and it is expected to conclude at the end of June 2023.

The Committee Secretary took the Committee through the programme, highlighting planned meetings with the Department and various entities.

The Chairperson stated that most of the issues emanate from the Committee’s Budgetary Review Recommendation Report and were extracted from there to form an action plan.

The Chairperson noted that Mr Mileham is requesting that during the briefing on Koeberg’s long-term operations, the Committee also includes a briefing by LLR. That should not be a problem. The second part is the toxic work environment challenges, this should not be a problem. He was under the belief that the Committee’s resolution was that the Chairperson of the National Radioactive Waste Disposal Institution (NRWDI) must update or respond to the Committee and Department on how they are responding to the allegation being made about NRWDI in the public domain. The Committee has written to the DMRE and the DMRE has been given until the end of November to respond. It must be the chairperson that responds and not the deputy chairperson as there have been allegation made against the deputy chairperson and CEO. The Committee can make a decision based on the response or non-response of the department and the chairperson of the board. Perhaps in the meantime, a follow up can be done because some of the people that made allegations is a professor who has made a discovery. The professor can possibly share his discovery to the public. The Committee will have a deliberation on the response or non-response from the department.

The Chairperson requested that this matter be dealt with as an item in next week’s meeting.

Ms P Madokwe (EFF) supported the Chairperson’s suggestion. She suggested that the oversight on illegal mining/return to the DMRE North West office and the follow up to oversight conducted in Jagersfontein should be done during the first part of the year.

Mr T Langa (EFF) stated that he is covered by Ms Madokwe’s statement.

The Chairperson stated that the issues raised by Ms Madokwe must be noted and taken care of. In fact, the programme should be looked at so when the Committee has public hearings in the various provinces, it also does two hours of oversight nearby. However, the Committee will work on this. The only problem with Ms Madokwe’s suggestion is that the decision of the Committee is also subject to approval. There is an instruction from the programming committees and the chief whip’s forums that portfolio committees must always prioritise legislation and the Committee will only be considered for oversight work when they are done with legislation. The Committee will deal with the North West oversight issue but will also explain what needs to be undertaken. On the Jagersfontein, he explained that part of the advice the Committee received is that if a matter does not fall under that portfolio committee then the portfolio committee cannot take a decision on behalf of another portfolio committee. The problem with Jagersfontein is that it falls under the portfolio committee on labour, but also water-related issues fall under the department of water and sanitation. However, one of the things the Committee stated on the programme is that perhaps it should consider going to Jagersfontein in the Free State when it does public hearings. In as much as the Bill does not only speak to that, it may also be able to allow people to make submissions. He suggested that the Committee agree to including some oversight work when it goes to the North West for public hearings so that the Committee does not make an application to go back. When the Committee went to KwaZulu-Natal there were matters there that did not necessarily relate to the Gas Amendment Bill but the matters needed oversight. The Committee then said that if they were done, they would then have to go attend another meeting that gave them a chance to conduct oversight. The House chairperson on committees agrees that aligning oversight duties with time for public hearings is the best way the Committee could utilise the public hearings time, especially in inland provinces where there is massive mining taking place and in coastal provinces where there is gas and other energy related matters.

Upstream Petroleum Development Bill public hearings schedule

The Committee turned to the proposed programme for the Upstream Petroleum Development Bill [B13 – 2021] public hearings across the country.

The Chairperson stated that geographical and environmental challenges have to be looked into. For instance, it would not be easy to go to the Free State in the middle of winter. Some provinces have a lot of districts and how the Committee selects which districts it goes to is very important.

 

The Committee must find new areas for public hearings and avoid going to the same places they have been to already. The Committee should try to find a venue it has not been to in cases where the Committee goes to a municipality they have held a public hearing in before. This helps for a wider dissemination of information.

The Chairperson asked the Committee whether they have alterations which they would like to make to the programme.

Mr J Lorimer (DA) was of the view that the public hearings are unnecessarily extensive and he does not see the reason why the hearings are so intensive. This is going to take a great deal of time and is going to slow down the passage of this legislation that is so urgently needed.

Ms Malinga stated that the reason for public hearings is to have intensive engagements. She would not advise that the Committee returns to eMalahleni municipality. The Committee should rather go to Steve Tshwete Municipality. All the other districts are perfect. She suggested that the Committee should go to Bushbuckridge Municipality in Bushbuckridge this time around.

Mr Lorimer said it was ridiculous to have public hearings in Bushbuckridge on the Upstream Petroleum Development Bill. How does this affect the people in Bushbuckridge?

Ms Malinga replied that the Committee will not be bullied by Mr Lorimer. Legislation affects everybody.

The Chairperson allowed Mr Lorimer to finish his statement; however, he felt that it is not appropriate to call someone else’s proposal of an area “ridiculous”. Can members use language that if someone uses it against them, they will accept that the person is contesting their idea. Sometimes when words are thrown around, they end up not talking to the issue but talks to the character of the person’s capacity to think.

Mr Lorimer stated that he does not see how his usage of the word “ridiculous” can be seen to infer anything about any other individual. That is a complete misconception. He asks members to recall when written submissions were taken from industry and environmental groups, and people who are intimately concerned with this Bill, not one thing changed in the Bill put forward by the department. Those are the people whose lives and careers are intimately impacted by this Bill, yet the Committee is proposing to go out to places where people will not be affected by the Bill. “We are about to have a round of Parliament funded ANC campaigns and I object to that”.

An ANC member stated that Mr Lorimer cannot bully them. The Committee cannot be bullied by someone who took the Committee to the wrong place and they had to apologise to the mine owner.

The Chairperson replied that if Mr Lorimer can accept another committee member calling his proposal ridiculous, then he is fine with it. All he was saying was that sometimes members must desist from talking about the character or capacity of a person to make a comment. It is incorrect and uninformed to say that this Committee is trying to run an ANC campaign. He chaired this Committee since 2014 and it has never been a committee that leads campaigns. He is not sure what logic of thinking would say that one would not have a political campaign if they go to Mbombela. In fact, people would argue that they want to go to Mbombela because that is where they will get massive numbers for their political campaign. He would never lead a committee that discriminates against rural people. They too deserve to participate in government programmes. He thinks that it is unfair to say that the programme is intensive. The law requires public hearings to be intensive. He is not sure about a portfolio committee that would not want to go do public hearings somewhere because the programme is intensive. That is exactly what a portfolio of Parliament is meant to do. Let us leave these debates when we deal with the Bill. Politicking can happen anywhere. However, the Committee cannot refuse to host public hearings in a rural area just because it thinks that the people in the rural areas will not be affected by the Bill. Can the Committee leave this programme mixed as it is, come back and bring the proposed dates in those particular provinces, and agree that this will be the programme of the Committee based on that. The Committee will prepare proposed oversight work for each area that they are going to.

Ms Malinga stated that before she agrees to the Chairperson’s suggestion, Mr Lorimer must withdraw his statements on the Committee driving a political campaign using the programme. She does not have a problem with the Chairperson’s suggestion. However, Mr Lorimer cannot say that the programme of the Committee is a political campaign.

The Chairperson replied that he hears Ms Malinga’s complaint, but the Committee knows that Mr Lorimer will not do that as that is his political view hence he said that let Mr Lorimer’s statement be brought in when the Committee conducts public hearings. At this stage, that does not arise and it has never arisen. Let’s take Mr Lorimer’s statement as an unfounded political statement as nothing here speaks on campaigning.

Mr Langa stated that there is a pipeline that runs from KwaZulu-Natal to Johannesburg. This is a multi-purpose line. He proposed that Uthukela District be included in the programme as it is an important district. Uthugela District was duly added to the list.

The Chairperson swapped Uthukela District for Amajuba District instead. He stated that the Committee may have to look at other issues in Middleburg that include the status of the optimum coal mine. Members are allowed to help us with this oversight target when the Committee is in these areas.

Consideration of minutes.

The Committee turned to the draft minutes of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy dated 15 November 2022.

Ms Malinga moved for the adoption of the minutes. This was second by another member of the ANC.

The Committee adopted the minutes.

The Committee turned to the draft Minutes of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy dated 18 November 2022,

A member of the ANC moved for the adoption. This was seconded by Mr J Bilankulu (ANC).

The Committee turned to the draft Minutes of the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy dated 22 November 2022.

Mr M Wolmarans (ANC) moved for the adoption. This was seconded by Mr S Jafta (AIC).

There were no other issues to be dealt with.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting.

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