Department of Justice and Constitutional Development Budget: briefing

Meeting report

SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE
17 May 2005
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT BUDGET: BRIEFING

Chairperson: Kgoshi L M Mokoena (ANC)

Relevant Documents
Director General presentation
Court Services report
Finance Unit overview
Budget allocations (Base 80)
Human Resources Unit presentation

SUMMARY
The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development led by the Acting Director General, briefed the Committee on the Department’s priorities for the next financial year within the context of the Medium Term Expenditure Framework, the progress it had made in court services and the Department's various challenges such as the lack of adequate financial and human resources.

MINUTES
Introduction
Ms Jacqui Ngeva (Acting Director General) introduced her colleagues among whom were: Adv J Skosana (Court Services Manager), K Shabalala (Chief Director: Protection of the Rights of Vulnerable Groups), Mr K Makola (Regional Head: Free State), W De Wee (COO:Justice) and Mr P Du Rand (Court Services).

Presentation by acting Director General
The presentation was an overview of the department’s priorities for the next financial year (see document). It also showed evidence of an integrated approach in planning for programmes in the various branches as opposed to the ‘silo’ approach to service delivery. It showed that each priority would be executed by a specific programme but would be implemented in an integrated manner. The topics of the presentation were:
- Linking budget to government objective;
- Linking mandate, strategy and priorities;
- Strategic result areas: access to justice for all, modernised justice resources and processes to ensure efficiency and the transformation of justice, state and society;
- A balanced scorecard approach which would ensure monitoring and evaluation;
- Customer focus which would ensure effective service delivery of justice for all;
- The financial plan for cost effective delivery of resources;
- Business processes: Modernisation for efficient service delivery; and
- Learning and growth

Presentation by Deputy Director General (Court Services)
Mr S Jiyane outlined the mandate of the court services and gave a brief overview of its 2004/5 expenditure and its new budget for 2005/6 (see document). He spoke about the Re Aga Boswa project which sought to create capacity at provincial and national level and reengineer and optimise processes at the courts to enable courts to deliver an effective service. Other aspects he presented on were:
- Enhancing court information management system
- Capital projects and improvement of infrastructure
- Priorities for the 2005/6 financial year which included finalising the restructuring of courts,
- Rationalisation of courts,
- Support to the transformation of the judicial system and integration with cluster priorities.
- Review of the criminal justice system;
- Restorative justice project;
- Court integrity; and
- Improved access for vulnerable groups
- Adequate modern and secured court facilities
- Development of a language policy for courts
- Transformation issues

Mr Jiyane highlighted the problems areas identified from visits to Limpopo and Free State which were:
- Access issues
- Infrastructure and building maintenance issues
- Human resource issues
- Case flow aspects.
He then identified the Department's responses to solve these matters (see document).

Presentation by Mr P Sekawana, Chief Director (Human Resources)
The Department of Justice had a high staff turnover out of which 15% were legally qualified. There had been no retention plan over the years resulting in staff flight. The Department was addressing the issue and developing a retention plan. It was felt that lack of training and development of staff accounted for some staff flight and so it had organised training which included international placements in overseas programmes such as at the International Criminal Court. The department also used international placements to deal with scarce resources. Poor supervisory and management style was also an issue which the retention plan addressed. The Department had devised means of rewarding and boosting the morale of staff who were diligent in their work and such rewards were non-monetary.

Presentation by Mr Allen Mackenzie (Chief Financial Officer)
The Chief Financial Officer spoke about specific issues as the budget document had been circulated previously. The issues centred on:
- Strategy;
- The annual budget process;
- Report on joint budget task team and the areas that posed budgetary challenge such as personnel;
- Strategic priorities of department; and
- Base 80 (allocations for department) which prioritised needs so as to align budget with available financial resources.
The CFO said that due to the volume of budget document, he would address all the pertinent issues. However, members of the Committee could present their questions to him and he would prepare and give the answers on his next visit to Cape Town.

Questions from the Committee
Mr S Shiceka (ANC, Gauteng) stated that the Constitution required the Executive to account to the Legislature. In its accounting to the legislature, it was essential that the executive delegation be led politically. It was problematic that the Acting Director General was in charge of a delegation that met with politicians. They might pose politically loaded questions which the Department would not be able to answer. The Committee had the authority to dismiss departments that had not met the stated requirements. Due to time constraints, he said that the Committee would overlook this inconsistency on condition that the displeasure of the Committee was conveyed to the department.

He continued that the matters under discussion required intensive scrutiny that the Committee could not do because the documents had been given to them only at the start of the meeting. Documents should be handed out a week before the presentations to enable members to apply their minds to the issues under discussion and make meaningful contributions. The Committee must be empowered to execute the function for which it was set up.

The Chairperson agreed and said that the Committee would not condone a lack of adequate preparation and had previously dismissed a department because of it.

The CFO apologised for the lateness of the budget document dated 12 April, which was the initial date for the Committee meeting. That initial meeting had been cancelled and the Department had not sent off the documents. He was informed only shortly prior to his departure to Cape Town that the documents had not been sent.

The Chairperson stated that the question and answer exercise was in preparation for the coming budget speech.

Mr D Worth (DA, Free State) commented that the buildings in the department were always in a poor condition with poor air conditioning and practically no heaters for winter. He asked how court security was handled and what the budget was for it.

Adv Skosana (Court Services Manager) replied that security had been provided in 235 courts for cash in transit and regular security services. Basic communication services were also provided. Mr K Makola added that certain provinces did not require air conditioners but heaters, which were already provided.

Mr Z Ntuli (Kwazulu-Natal) asked several questions:
- Was there a budget for the Amakosi courts and was there a mechanism in place to ensure that justice was done?
- Also the leadership of the clusters was not clear, was it headed by the commissioner or magistrate?
- Was the shortage of personnel with regard to magistrates or other court personnel?
- What was the purpose of interpreters in courts if the magistrate spoke the same language as the accused or victims?
- Why were proceedings conducted in English and not conducted in the local languages as a means of facilitating access to justice for such people?
- How did the department communicate to communities about laws and the way the courts functioned?
- What was the timeframe for implementing the programmes the Department had undertaken?

Mr Shiceka asked if audits had been conducted around the needs of the department so that a specific amount could be allocated to the different projects. This would enable the department to assess its performance. Did the department have an idea of how much it could delegate its functions so that it could attain efficiency and responsiveness which would not be possible if the department was centrally controlled?
He asked the Department to elaborate on the issues of human resources (such as internship programmes as a means of securing human resources) and who headed the clusters so that the public knew who was responsible for actions taken. He said that the issue of non-monetary rewards had to be discussed at government level and not confined to the department alone. He believed that the lack of resources in the courts did not allow for proper administration of justice. Some of the functions required delegation to persons who would run them on a daily basis to ensure those things were done properly. He said that the Committee had to assess how justice for the people can be achieved by identifying the problem areas. The legal administration was still based on Roman-Dutch law and it was important to incorporate the traditional legal system of the people into administration. It was time the Committee questioned the system to ascertain if it achieved the goals of the country.

Response by Department
Ms Ngeva responded that the Department was co-ordinated and worked together as a team. With regard to the audit and budget issues, a report had been assembled by a team but would not be circulated due to the processes it had to go through. The department was looking into the issues raised. The issue of non-monetary awards had to be reviewed at the government level. Jurisprudence had been raised in the Department and also with the Minister to ensure the transformation of the justice system. It had to be subjected to public debate but would be reviewed.

Mr Jiyane said that these were policy issues and time was required to grapple with these. He said that an alternative means of dispute resolution would be devised.

Adv Skosana responded that previously English had been the medium of communication in the courts. Presently, it seemed that the best medium of communication in the courts should be the languages predominantly spoken in the region.

Mr Pule responded that there were already learnerships/internship programs (court management program) in the pipeline. Current internships cut across departmental branches and ministry placements, but could not be filled due to budgetary constraints. However, five internship areas had been identified in the ministry for political science and law students.

Adv Skosana said that in 2004/2005 the department had experienced a depletion of 1 808 posts. Regarding international placements, the Minister was concerned with ability and capability in the areas of international trade law and legislation drafting. He agreed that the issue of non-monetary awards transcended the Department of Justice to all spheres of government.

The CFO responded that:
- The Department’s report contained a summary of the audit of unfunded needs in the department.
- Previously 39 ATM machines had been installed in certain disadvantaged areas and means had been devised to communicate monetary transactions to persons in those areas.
- The Department had a standing order to spend R5000 per day on maintenance. However it was problematic to recover the money spent from the Department of Public Works. There was a training programme to ensure that personnel could use the maintenance services.
- The Department had also set up internship programmes. There were presently three people who had a postgraduate degree in finance who worked as secretaries who should apply for the programme but had not.
- The non-monetary awards were to leverage the buying power of employees.
- The Saturday courts were under resourced. Previously resources had been sent to courts without them ordering but the present system required courts to place orders for needed resources. Lack of resources could also be attributed to interconnectivity problems with the computers.
- The Department, despite the monetary constraints, recognised the allocations that had been made and so did not feel neglected by Treasury.

Further discussion
Mr A Moseki (North West) asked what work was done in those rural areas where access to justice did not exist. Did the content of the department’s programmes include reaching out to people in those areas?
The department in its presentation made reference to ‘hot spot areas’. Had the department identified the co-ordination of the clusters as a ‘hot spot area' and how fast did it intend to address the lack of proper coordination in the clusters? The Bantu courts set up during apartheid were still in existence eleven years into transformation. What did the department intend to do about them?

Ms B Shabalala replied that there was a communications division and courts also initiated events that were targeted at public enlightenment. Other events included the child protection week, which was engineered by committed persons in the department, which reached out to persons in the rural areas and spoke on social issues such as child abuse. This was but one example of the programmes put together to change the mindset of public about the work of the Department.

Mr A Manyosi (Eastern Cape) said that the poor co-ordination of the criminal justice cluster had adverse effects on the beneficiaries or persons who were affected by the justice system. It was necessary that the department identified the areas which needed improvement. The Department spoke of the shortage of human resources or programmes to stop staff movement. Yet legally qualified personnel were in abundance in the Department but there were complaints from them that they were used as clerks, which led to disillusionment.

A member of the delegation from the Justice Department responded that the current structure could not absorb everyone who was legally qualified. They were placed in voluntary positions and as the opportunities arose, there were duly appointed.

Ms B Shabalala added that due to the high unemployment rate, people who had good qualifications often took advantage of any available job opening. This trend was predominant among foreigners who were desperate for means of subsistence. However, as the opportunities arose, legally qualified persons were appointed to fill up the positions.

Mr Makola explained that the redemarcation process, which would merge some offices, would address the human resources problem.

Mr D Le Roux (DA, Eastern Cape) asked that, with regard to the staff shortage, did the department know exactly what it needed and was there a budget in place to solve the problem? Had the department set up a bursary system in the universities? A high staff turnover was often blamed on bad management or bad supervision. Could the department give more detail on what it meant in that regard?

The Department responded that bursaries had been given to about 1000 beneficiaries out of which 600 had been approved. The bursaries had been extended to security personnel to enable them to study Law. Formal education would not improve the required skills therefore learnership programs were also entrenched. There was a concerted effort to bolster managerial/supervisory capacities.

Due to time constraints the Committee agreed to put all other questions in writing and forward to the Department to ensure adequate preparation for the next meeting with the Department.

The meeting was adjourned.