Western Cape 2019/20 Financial year, with AGSA input; Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment Act requirements by departments and entities of Western Cape Government

Public Accounts (SCOPA) (WCPP)

28 February 2020
Chairperson: Mr L Mvimbi (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The meeting had originally been scheduled to receive briefings by the Auditor-General (AG) on the scope of audits on predetermined objectives to be undertaken in the Western Cape during the 2019/20 financial year; and the status of the implementation of the Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment Act requirements by the departments and entities of the Western Cape government. Due to the AG’s absence in this meeting and their continued absence Members were very concerned. It was therefore considered a matter of urgency to meet with the AG and Members had a lengthy discussion on proposed ways to ensure their attendance in the next meeting. Members decided to send an invitation with stern wording such as quoting the AG office’s constitutional obligation and thus requesting them to be on the premises for a meeting with the Committee on 3 April 2020.

The Committee discussed logistics on the hearing of the acquisition of the erven in Doornbach. Members discussed the date of a meeting where all stakeholders including the AG could be invited; as well as the sequence in appearance of those invitees. Members said that questions like:  “what is the normal procedure to acquire land?” had to be asked. The Committee agreed to meet with all the stakeholders on 24 April 2020. Members asked who was going to be invited. The Committee decided that the Department of Human Settlements, the Housing Development Agency, the City of Cape Town, the Auditor-General, two evaluators and Mr B Herron (GOOD) would be invited to the meeting. Members said that they were sure that all the stakeholders had enough time to prepare their responses.

The minutes of the 14 February 2020 were adopted without amendments.

Meeting report

The Chairperson announced that the Auditor-General was absent.  An apology was offered for Ms Nkondlo (ANC).

The Committee expressed their concern and frustration over the Auditor-General’s continued absence. The Chairperson remarked that this was the fourth or fifth time that the Auditor-General was absent. The Committee had made three attempts to invite the Auditor-General’s office to come to the Committee. Members shared the frustration.

The Chairperson introduced the two items on the agenda. The first one was to come to a resolution on Mr B Herron’s (GOOD) submission on the acquisition in Doornbach; the second item was the adoption of the minutes.

Ms M Maseko (DA) said that it was unacceptable that Auditor-General’s office failed to appear in front of the Committee three times this year and twice last year. She urged Members to come to a resolution to force the Auditor-General’s office to appear. She commented that the Auditor-General’s office was an entire office although one had reported a family death for the reason of his absence, why could they not send other employees in the office to appear in front of the Committee? ‘What was the reason for them not to show up at SCOPA’?

The Chairperson asked the Procedural Officer, Mr Dustin Davids, what reason the Auditor-General’s office had given for their absence.

The Procedural Officer said that the standard procedure and convention is that invitations would be sent out one to two weeks in advance. In this case for the Auditor-General’s office, he had sent the invitation to their office two to three weeks in advance so that there was sufficient amount time for them to check their calendars. The Procedural Officer proposed two options: the first option is sending an invitation with sterner wording such as quoting the AG office’s constitutional obligation and thus requesting them to be at the premises by a certain date; the other option is a warning that failure to appear would result in their negligence of duty which he cautioned was undesirable.

The Chairperson opted for option one.

The Committee was concerned about their absence and asked Members to agree on a date.

The Chairperson asked Members not to display anxiety and suggested enquiring about the Auditor-General’s office’s availability on 3 April 2020 for the next meeting.  

The Procedural Officer recalled a meeting on Tuesday in which the Chairperson also happened to be absent. The Chairperson of that Committee had chosen to send the AG’s office a letter asking when the Auditor-General would be available.

The Chairperson agreed that option one would be a better approach for the Committee to get the Auditor-General to come to a meeting with the Committee.

Ms Maseko suggested an alternative that the Committee could go to the Auditor-General’s premises so that this absence issue can be done with.

The Chairperson said that he understood where Ms Maseko was coming from but he would like Members to come to a resolution on which option the Committee should adopt.

Mr D America (DA) supported the Chairperson’s proposal and decided to give the Auditor-General’s office the benefit of the doubt.

Ms Maseko emphasised the urgency to get clarity from the Auditor-General’s office about their attendance.

Briefing on the process of inquiry on the terms of the acquisition of the erven in Doornbach

The Chairperson invited Members to discuss the acquisition of erven in Doornbach reported in Mr Herron’s submission dated from 15 August 2019. Until the date of the meeting, the Committee had received a written submission from the Department of Human Settlements. The Committee was still waiting for written submissions from the Housing Development Agency (HDA) and the City of Cape Town. Depending on the received submissions, the Chairperson remarked that this Committee could then decide how it planned to proceed onwards at this meeting. Since there were legal issues involved in the acquisition of Doornbach land, the Committee would also require legal advice from the legal department.

Ms D Baartman (DA) commented that since the Committee had not received any further supporting documents from the Housing Development Agency and the City of Cape Town, she suggested that Members take a full day and invite them, the two evaluators the HDA had appointed, and the Auditor-General on Finance to come to the Committee. These were the stakeholders to provide clarity about their motivations to Members. She said that they needed to answer questions like “what is the normal procedure to acquire land?” She said that Members would have a better idea after gathering all the information from these relevant stakeholders.

Ms Maseko agreed with Ms Baartman’s suggestion and asked to have a date agreed on to have this matter sorted out.

The Chairperson commented that there was a whole month in March at the Committee’s disposal. He stated that a two-week period of time should be given to these stakeholders in advance.  

Mr America said that the Committee would be occupied with appropriations in March, so inviting these stakeholders to come to the Committee then is out of question.

The Procedural Officer suggested two dates: 3 April 2020 or 24 April 2020. However, he stated that he still had to check the parliamentary programmes before a date can be given. He enquired if there would be enough time for stakeholders to get all documents ready.

Ms Maseko said that the time period given should be sufficient.

Ms Baartman commented that departments’ entities must send documents to Members prior to the meeting taking place. She emphasised the importance of research work and Members’ applying their minds to the matter prior to the stakeholders’ briefing on the matter.

The Procedural Officer enquired of Members what the ideal amount of time would be for Members to go through all the documents.

The Chairperson said that two weeks should be sufficient.

The Procedural Officer said that he would send reminders to all the relevant stakeholders two weeks before the meeting to ensure that documents would be sent to Members.

The Committee agreed to meet with all the stakeholders on 24 April 2020.

Mr America asked who the Committee was going to invite.

The Chairperson said that they should invite the Department of Human Settlements, the Housing Development Agency, the City of Cape Town, the Auditor-General, and Mr Herron.

Ms Baartman added two evaluators onto the suggested list of stakeholders.

The Chairperson agreed and included the two evaluators and said that the meeting would take the whole day.

Then the Committee discussed the sequence in which stakeholders were to be making their briefings.

The Committee at first suggested starting with Member Herron and then the Department of Human Settlements.

The Legal Department advisor suggested to end the proposed briefing with the Department as the last in the sequence since the allegation was about the Department’s conduct.

The Chairperson agreed with the suggestion and then asked about the rest of the sequence.

The Legal Advisor said that he was not sure about the order of the rest of the stakeholders, but he was certain that the Department should be the last stakeholder to speak that day.

The Chairperson suggested to start with Member Herron’s complaint first, and then move to the Auditor-General as the second person in the sequence.

Ms Maseko interjected and asked if the Auditor-General found nothing wrong, what should the Committee do?

Ms Baartman suggested that the Auditor-General do two sessions. One session which is to demonstrate the budget like they always do at Annual Report Briefings, and then there should be a private session where the Auditor-General should only talk to Members without the presence of other stakeholders.

Ms Maseko cautioned against the Committee going all over the show. She stated that the outcome from the Auditor-General would either show that there was an inflation of the price or not, and whether there was political influence or not.

The Chairperson said the briefing should start with Mr Herron, then the Auditor-General, then the City of Cape Town, then the two evaluators, then the Housing Development Agency and the Department as the last contributor.  

The legal advisor suggested the evaluators be placed right after Member Herron since they could provide more insights on the subject.  

The Chairperson confirmed the sequence of the order: Member Herron, Evaluators, Housing Development Agency, City of Cape Town, Auditor-General and the Department of Human Settlements.  

The Procedural Officer asked if one of the stakeholder’s invitees could not make it, or if they declined to appear before the Committee, what would the Committee do.

The Chairperson responded that in that case the Committee could send a notification and to phrase the notification stating that the Committee had received the report and would like to hear their side of the story.

Ms Maseko commented there should be enough time for stakeholders to prepare their responses.

Consideration and adoption of the draft minutes of 14 February 2020

Mr Maseko proposed the adoption of the draft minutes dated 14 February 2020. Ms Baartman seconded. The minutes of the 14 February were adopted without amendments.

The meeting was adjourned

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