National Anti-Corruption Summit, and Public Service Restructuring: briefings

Meeting report

PUBLIC SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE
25 May 2005
NATIONAL ANTI-CORRUPTION SUMMIT, AND PUBLIC SERVICE RESTRUCTURING: BRIEFINGS

Chairperson: Mr P Gomomo (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Department PowerPoint presentation on Second National Anti-Corruption Summit
Resolutions of the Second National Anti-Corruption Summit 2005
Progress Report on Implementation of First National Summit Resolutions
The role and functioning of NACF and Implementation of NAP
Report on Restructuring in the Public Service Commission (Awaited)
Report on Restructuring in the Public Service

SUMMARY
The Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) presented a report on the Second National Anti-Corruption Summit held in March 2005 in Pretoria. Business, public service, and civil society sectors including donors and regional organisations, had been represented at the Summit. Twenty-seven resolutions had been drafted and adopted and would be translated into programmes of action.

A status report on ‘Restructuring in the Public Service’ was then presented and reflected a 60% reduction in excess staff. Members expressed concern about the protection of whistle blowers, research into corruption trends, the role of civil society and an appropriate exit strategy for public service employees.

Minutes

Department briefing
Mr R Kitshoff (DPSA) said the memorandum of understanding required that the summit be held every two years. The secretariat of the NACF was responsible for organising the summit and was funded by government and three donor partners, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, DFID and GTZ. 390 delegates representing the business, public and civil society sectors (including donors) and ambassadors attended the Summit.

A Resolutions Committee that comprised sectoral representatives drafted 27 resolutions that were adopted. The resolutions were categorised under ethics; awareness and prevention; combating; oversight; transparency and accountability; and the National Anti-Corruption Forum. Clusters of resolutions covered whistle blowing; co-ordination; implementation of anti-corruption legislation, post-public sector employment; research; financial disclosures; awareness; NACF and Apartheid corruption. These resolutions would be translated into programmes of action. Whistle blowing resolutions called for an improvement in the application of the Protected Disclosures Act.

An informal and multi-sectoral task team developed a draft National Anti-corruption Programme (NAP) which had been considered by the NACF on 12 May 2005. The NACF referred the draft to the sectors for input and appointed an Implementation Committee to establish projects and project management arrangements. The Committee consisted of the programme co-ordinators from the Public Sector (Director-General of DPSA); the Business Sector (CEO of Business against Crime) and the Civil Society Sector (convenor of Civil Society Network Against Corruption). This Committee was accountable to the Executive Committee of NACF. The multi-sectoral task teams would implement the NAP joint projects.

Report on Restructuring in the Public Service
Mr R Kitshoff presented a status report on the absorption of excess employees in provinces or national departments and what had happened since the implementation of PSCBC Resolution 7/2002. There had been a reduction of 60% in the number of excess employees. The Departments of Education in the provinces had played a significant role in the absorption of excess staff as groundkeepers and security guards. In the Northern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo provinces, a substantial number of excess personnel were beyond 55 years old and had limited chances of re-deployment because they lacked appropriate skills.

Discussion
Mr P Gomomo (ANC) sought clarification on whether there was a timeframe for the NACF to present its report to the Committee.

Professor S Sangweni responded that there was a need for a timeframe. The NACF would make arrangements to present their report to the Committee after 23 June 2005.

Mr M Sikakane (ANC) observed that the anti-corruption process had never been understood as having originated from within and guided by government. He asked about the translation of high-level ethical considerations of the NACF into localised implementable practical issues for the public to become part of the anti-corruption watchdog.

Mr R Davids responded that the Moral Regeneration Movement had also been encouraged to form part of the NACF. As part of the implementation plan, ways and means of how the two parties would take the process forward would be considered. The Moral Regeneration Movement mainly worked with communities through religious organisations and other civil societies to regenerate morality. Sangoko had been at pains to remind the NACF of the need to involve the public in its activities. There was enthusiasm on the ground and the challenge for the NACF was to translate that energy forward to the local level.

Mr W Maharaj added that the Protected Disclosure Act, whistle blowing, and the anti-corruption hotline would be marketed to encourage the public to be more vigilant in reporting corruption.

Dr U Roopnarain (IFP) asked whether the Public Service Commission had done any research on the trends and perceptions of corruption in the Public Service. She wanted to know at what point public servants signed the Code of Conduct.

Mr R Kitshoff said although the latest research on trends and perceptions of corruption were extensive and focused on two provinces, it was not definitive because it was not representative of the whole country. The Minister of Public Service and Administration in turn initiated the Corruption Management Information System project to allow the Department to integrate data and seek assistance from the Department of Justice.

Mr W Maharaj added that the research had been bedevilled by lack of clear definition of what corruption included. The Act clarified the position and it had become easier to determine the extent of corruption in the Public Service. The Public Service Commission had produced reports on financial misconduct.

The Code of Conduct formed part of the general conditions of service for public servants. Mr Davids added that the Public Service pledge had been developed and would be launched shortly and all public servants would be required to sign it.

Mr R Ntuli (DA) asked who the Civil Society sector represented at the Summit and whether unions had been represented by the Public Sector. He sought clarification on the issue of disclosure of business interests by public servants.

Mr Kitshoff said the PSC had done a review on the issue of financial disclosure. Mr Davids added that statistics for the 2003/04 financial year showed that disclosures had reached 81% and were set to increase to 90% on finalisation of the review.

Blacklisting of businesses had been dealt with in terms of the new Act while blacklisting public sector employees was still being dealt with. It had always been felt that other sectors should implement a form of blacklisting. The banking industry had successfully implemented this system where corrupt employees were blacklisted from getting employment in the industry.

Mr W Maharaj said one of the resolutions looked at the legal opinion with regard to the imposition of penalties or fines for non-disclosure. It would therefore be possible to have 100% compliance for disclosures. The Minister had also suggested that the disclosures be cascaded to lower levels of employees.

Mr P Gomomo (ANC) observed that much corruption took place in the private sector although media reports only highlighted the public sector. He asked whether there were mechanisms that monitored private sector activities and suggested that these be in place before the NACF tabled its report. He noted that Civil Societies were problematic because of lack of structures and organisation.

Ms H Mgabadeli ((ANC) expressed concern that the Portfolio Committee was not invited to the Summit even though it had spearheaded the Anti-Corruption process. No consultation had been done for the civil society representation.

Professor S Sangweni responded that the Portfolio Committee had been invited to the Summit. The problems of civil society were recognised by the Secretariat of the Commission. Over the years the structure of civil society had presented problems but they seemed to be solving them. Professor Sangweni said during the Summit, he had interacted with people in charge of anti-corruption groups in Kroonstadt and Limpopo. This was an indication that Sangoko reached out in terms of anti-corruption activities. Mr R Kitshoff (PSC) said community development workers also attended the Summit and this enabled them to understand the evolving National Anti-Corruption programme and related issues.

Ms H Mgabadeli requested a list of KwaZulu-Natal representatives who had attended the Summit.

Ms K Mokgalong (PSC) responded that each province had been encouraged to hold its own pre-anti-corruption summit. In that regard, the provinces were represented, even though some may not have been able to attend the Summit in Pretoria. Post-summit activities were taking place in various provinces. The KZN list of attendance would be made available through the chairperson of the Committee.

Mr R Davids (PSC) added that the NACF had been launched in Limpopo, North-West, Western Cape, Mpumalanga and Eastern Cape provinces. The Gauteng province would work through the local Moral Regeneration Movement in collaboration with the Gauteng shared services centre where their anti-corruption work was centralised. Nothing had happened in KZN and other provinces.

Mr W Sikhosana (ANC) asked whether all provinces had been fully represented at the Summit. He also asked whether there was legislation that covered Apartheid corruption, and if so, how it would be handled.

Mr W Maharaj responded that corruption was not a new phenomenon. Although it had been rife in the previous dispensation, the current one was far more open and encouraged it. He said there could be individuals who had huge fortunes and benefited from corrupt activities. Mr R Davids said that Civil Societies would do a scoping exercise with respect to the viability of prosecuting apartheid era corruption. However, this would be a great challenge for Civil Society given its limitations.

Mr M Sikakane (ANC) expressed concern about the notion of an "impimpi" being despised in civil society. The public could not differentiate between a whistle blower and an "impimpi". He suggested that whistle blowing be entrenched in the public as a mechanism to rid it of corruption.

Ms K Mokgalong (PSC) responded that it was incumbent upon the PSC to actively promote whistle blowing. There were many regular promotional programmes on radio that encouraged whistle blowing. The National Anti-Corruption hotline also encouraged this activity. However, this should be done within the provided legal framework to avoid abuse of the facility. Members were encouraged to tell the public about responsible whistle blowing.

Professor Sangweni said the Public Sector hotline was instituted in September and to date, 600 cases had been reported from areas such as municipalities and rural communities. The transformation of "ukumpimpa" (as it was known before) has been positive as people had begun to understand its significance.

Ms P Mashangoane (ANC) expressed concern about the protection of whistle blowers. The Mpumalanga exam whistle blower had been left in the cold and unprotected. She wanted to know the effectiveness of the PSC whistle blowing marketing activities and requested that pamphlets be made available in vernacular languages.

Professor Sangweni acknowledged that whistle blowing was a complex matter. The Protected Disclosure Act supposedly provided guidelines and conditions for reporting. The problem was that whistle blowers who had not followed the prescribed guidelines/ framework, exposed themselves to victimisation. He admitted that government had not done enough in that regard. The PSC issued guidelines that had been workshopped with several national and provincial departments. While the Protected Disclosures Act required the Minister of Justice to issue guidelines, this had not been done.

Mr R Davids reminded the Members that the protection of the whistle blower in terms of the Protected Disclosure Act took place in the context of employment relations and did not extend to the public. Extending protection to the public would create a tremendous burden on everybody concerned. He added that the SA Law Reform Commission was looking at the various suggestions around the Act and making it practical as well as the implications of extending it to the public as this had financial implications. A process was underway and the Commission was expected to report to the PSC within a specified timeframe.

The PSC produced pamphlets including the Code of Conduct in most vernacular languages. Business cards were also produced in Braille for the visually impaired.

Ms H Mgabadeli (ANC) requested a breakdown of excess staff reduction in KZN. She asked whether there was an exit strategy for public servants. Mr Kitshoff said the departmental breakdown figures would be forwarded to the Committee secretary. A multi-sectoral team was working on a social plan to assist with integration into society through entrepreneurial projects.

Mr R Ntuli (DA) wanted to know the difference between severance and employee initiated packages. Mr Kitshoff said the concept of these packages was the same although the nature of the benefits was still under discussion.

Mr M Baloyi (ANC) sought clarity on the absorption issue, and the difference between absorption and retrenchment. Mr Kitshoff said staff had been absorbed into other posts available in their provinces or in national departments. A small percentage of staff either resigned or retired, but none had been retrenched.

Mr Gomomo (ANC) wondered whether any staff had been re-deployed elsewhere. Mr W Maharaj confirmed that all staff had been re-deployed.

The meeting was adjourned.