Meeting with a Kenyan Parliamentary Committee delegation

Public Works and Infrastructure

09 May 2012
Chairperson: Ms M Mabuza (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

The Committee interacted with the visiting Kenyan Parliamentary delegation from the Committee on Transport, Public Works and Human Settlements. Members of the Portfolio Committee outlined their roles and responsibilities, mentioned what the Department of Public Works and the entities did, and how oversight and monitoring were core functions. They then expanded on the nature and purpose of the Expanded Public Works Programme. The Kenyan delegation outlined its responsibilities, noting that it oversaw a number of ministries, and said that a new electoral system and Constitution were being implemented. A National Construction Authority had been set up to register contractors and try to move away from the situation where local contractors were being marginalised by large foreign firms. The delegation noted that a Youth Fund and Women’s Fund were in operation to promote these groups in business. A Constituency Development Fund, managed by Parliamentarians, was used to establish schools, roads, and hospitals.

Members asked for more information on the constituencies, and their funding, commented on high literacy levels, but wanted to know if it was correct that men tended to be educated to higher levels than women, asked if quota systems were in operation, noted their concerns that there were no women in this delegation and asked about tendering systems. They also asked for more explanation as to how provinces were handled, and the new electoral system.

Meeting report

Meeting with the delegation from Kenyan Parliamentary Committee on Transport, Public Works and Human Settlement
The Chairperson welcomed a delegation from the Kenyan Parliamentary Committee on Transport, Public Works and Human Settlements. Members of the South African and Kenyan delegations introduced themselves.

The Chairperson stated that the mandate of the Department of Public Works (the Department), was to manage the accommodation and infrastructure needs of national departments and also to lead and direct the implementation of the national Expanded Public Works Programme (EPWP). The Department was also required to promote growth, job creation, and transformation in the construction and property industry. The Department was responsible for four entities: the Council for the Built Environment (CBE), the Construction Industry Development Board (CIDB), Agrément South Africa (ASA) and the Independent Development Trust (IDT). This Parliamentary Committee performed oversight over all those bodies, and dealt with legislation presented by the Department to Parliament.

Ms P Ngwenya- Mabila (ANC) added that another role of the Committee was to ensure that there was effective public participation, as set out in the Constitution. She also stated that oversight was performed either by the Department appearing before the Committee, or the Committee going out to perform oversight visits to see the progress of the programmes that were implemented. In addition, Members could pose questions, for reply by the Minister, and feedback would be given to the relevant people. In addition, matters raised on various issues would be debated by the Members of Parliament.

Ms Ngwenya-Mabila highlighted that the Construction Industry Development Board (CIDB) was an entity established to facilitate the growth of contractors, to look at the work they had done previously and then to grade them from lowest to highest grade. This applied, in particular to previously disadvantaged black people working in the industry. The Council for the Built Environment (CBE) was established to transform the built environment industry, and to also assist students, especially black students, who would like to pursue their studies in the built environment, because there seemed to be a shortage of black engineers.

Mr L Gaehler (UDM) said IDT was an entity of the Department which was founded in 1990 with a poverty alleviation programme. Agrément South Africa was intended to certify fitness for purpose in the built environment.

The Chairperson requested members of the committee to give some further details on EPWP and CBE, so that the visiting delegation could be able to fully understand what these programmes entailed.

Ms C Madlopha (ANC) commented she was worried that there where no female Parliamentarians in the visiting delegation.

Ms Madlopha explained that the Expanded Public Works Programme (EPWP) was introduced in 2004, with its first phase running to 2009, to focus on poverty alleviation. EPWP was intended to create jobs in the environment, social, economic, infrastructure sectors of the economy. The jobs were both full-time equivalents and part-time equivalents. The full-time equivalent meant that a person would get a one-year or six-months job, and this had gone well and had created more jobs than expected. In addition, in 2009, President Jacob Zuma had a meeting at the University of Western Cape, who had reviewed the EPWP programme and made the point that the programme should also be extended to the municipalities. The programmes were intended to be labour-intensive so, for instance, in infrastructure programmes, the methods used should be geared to being labour-intensive rather than merely using machinery, to create jobs for unemployed people. Training was a component, and was intended to equip those being employed with skills that would, after that job had ended, enable them to be more marketable in similar jobs. Some people were encouraged to form do-operatives, or small business groups so that they could be trained, all with the intention of alleviating poverty and the worldwide issue of unemployment.

In 2009, the EPWP programme was redesigned, to introduce incentive grants and thereby promote more uptake of the programme in institutions. This Committee had, during its oversight, seen that the programme in its original design was not operating to the maximum as the institutions tended to spend their own budgets and then access the incentive grants, rather than creating more work.  A new model was then designed, which stipulated that institutions could be granted a 40% start up budget, after they had presented a business plan.

Mr David Were, Chairperson of the Committee on Transport, Public Works and Human Settlements, Kenyan Parliament, thanked Members for their insight and explained that his Committee was one of twelve departmental committees. The portfolio that his Committee dealt with handled separate ministries of Transport, Housing and Public Works. The Committee oversaw four ministers. The functions of the Committee were to investigate, enquire into and report on all matters relating to management activity, administration, and operations of the ministries. In addition, it should study and analyse the different programmes of the ministries, as well as the effectiveness of their implementation. It would then make reports and recommendations to the House, and be as open as possible towards proposed legislation.

Mr Were noted that in the past year legislation on the National Construction Authority was passed, and this body was tasked with registering contractors, because many of the locals were marginalised, by big contractors who were foreign-owned or operated.  The establishment of the National Construction Authority was intended to uplift the black indigenous people of Kenya. There had also been creation of a Youth Fund from which youth groups would borrow money to start up a business, and then, after their business was developed, they would repay to ensure continuation of the Fund for others. There was a similar situation with a Women’s Fund, from which money could be borrowed, and repaid with minimal interest. In 2004, a Constituency Development Fund was introduced, and he explained that money would go directly to a constituency, and was managed by a committee that was set up by Members of Parliament, being used to establish schools, roads, and hospitals, and thus ensuring that development took place at ground level.

Ms Mabuza asked what a constituency in Kenya comprised.

Mr Were said a Member of Parliament would represent a constituency.

Ms N Ngcengwane (ANC) asked how constituencies were funded.

Mr Were responded that the Kenyan Ministry of Local Government handled all local authorities, municipalities and town councillors, which covered the rural areas. The Minister for Local Government received funds and distributed them to the different constituencies. There was also funding which came from coffee and tea factories and sugar companies, and municipalities received funding to run their operations.

Ms A Dreyer (DA) said that she noticed that Kenya had very good literacy levels and would like to know how was that achieved.

Ms M Madlala (ANC), however, noted that in Kenya men tended to be better educated than women were, and wanted to know if that was indeed correct.

Mr Were responded that in 2003 primary education was declared free for everyone, and thus enrolments increased at the lower level. In answer to Ms Madlopha he said that men were often better educated to a higher level, because of the cultural ideology that it was better to educate a boy because he would stay home, whereas the girl would one day marry and leave her parents’ home.

Ms Dreyer asked how Kenya dealt with corruption,

Ms Dreyer asked if quota systems were in operation.

Mr K Sithole (IFP) asked whether Kenya had a tendering system.

Mr Were noted that as far as tendering was concerned, Kenya had a Public Procurement Act of 2005, which laid down all procedures of tendering, similar to that of South Africa.

Mr M Swathe (DA) asked if there was any division of the budget, so that small contractors were given a certain amount, according to the set budgets.

Mr Sithole asked about its new Constitution, specifically on Executive votes, and how the notion that Ministers would have to present their budgets to portfolio committees before going to the House was going to work.

Mr Swathe asked whether Kenya was divided into provinces, and if there were premiers or governors for different areas.

Mr Swathe asked if the President was firstly a Member of Parliament before becoming the President.

Mr Were explained that in the next election Kenya would follow the American system and would have a Governor and a Senator. The President would be elected, he would not be independent, he would have presidential candidates, but he would not be applying for Parliamentary membership, but would stand straight for Presidency. In addition, each province would have a women’s seat so that women may also be represented. However, they would have to campaign themselves for addition of other women, as well as in the rest of the country for votes. He noted that Kenya had provinces, which would receive funding from the national level, which would be 15%, but if there were an independent government, it would have to devise ways of raising funds itself.

Mr N Magubane (ANC) commended the Kenyan delegation for coming to South Africa, and noted that it was important that all on the African continent supported and learned from one another.

Mr Were also expressed his gratitude to the Committee for inviting this delegation to come and share information and learn from each other.

The meeting was adjourned

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