National Small Enterprise Development Bill concept document & public hearings programme

Meeting report

Opening Remarks
The Chairperson began by outlining the agenda for the meeting.

She said that the public hearing was meaningful, and she appreciated everyone’s presence at the meeting.

Mr H Kruger (DA) acknowledged the two items on the agenda and requested that Members receive the relevant documents so they can go over them privately in preparation for the next meeting.

The Chairperson replied that Members already received the concept document and suggested that they stick with the current programme. She asked the other Members what they thought of this plan.

Mr F Jacobs (ANC) suggested that, since they already had a Caucus meeting after the meeting, they should go over the documents they received and agree on the timeframes – at least during the meetings. This did not need to be a long meeting. He agreed with Mr Kruger.

The Chairperson said that the two Members were correct in their suggestion(s), and she called for the next item on the agenda.

Draft Programme of the Public Hearings
The Committee was then taken through the draft programme of the public hearings on the National Small Enterprise Amendment Bill by Mr King Kunene, Committee Secretariat.

Discussion
The Chairperson was thankful for the briefing and said it was important to be in line with the deadlines. She hoped that there was no confusion between the two programmes. The Committee would deliberate on the latest programme.

Mr H April (ANC) supported the notion of having two groups. It would better assist with time management. Could they not do the group dividing just yet, and rather wait for the Secretariat to return with the relevant information?

Mr Jacobs supported the second programme and said everyone should brace themselves for the work they would be doing in the fourth quarter of the year. As long as Members worked together, they would be fine. He appreciated the urgency of the programme.

Mr J de Villiers (DA) said it would be difficult to vote on something which would significantly impact the Members’ time, and at a time when they all had to do work for their own political parties. The legislative processes would also take time. He was not comfortable with either one of the options. The options included the weekends, which was irregular and inconsistent with how Parliament worked in the past. It was previously requested that weekends not be included in the programmes. Neither Parliament nor the parties could be unreasonable with how time could be taken from the Members. Including the weekends was unreasonable. He was hesitant to vote on this as he did not know how the groups would be structured. Could the Secretariat please send the Committee a breakdown of the two groups so that they know what they are voting for? And could they vote on the programme at the next meeting rather? Could the groups be structured such that those Members who resided in certain provinces attended the public hearings in those provinces?

The Chairperson said that she could not yet make a ruling and would like to hear the other Members’ thoughts on this. She could not respond to the issue of weekends.

Ms K Tlhomelang (ANC) agreed with Mr April and Mr Jacobs. She noted Mr de Villiers’ concerns but expressed that if the programme ended in November 2023, then it would be a blessing, as it meant they would not need to stretch into December 2023. Although Members would have personal engagements over the weekends, they would have to prioritise their work. Could everyone support the programme so it can be done by the end of November?

Ms M Lubengo (ANC) supported the second programme. She was fine with working over weekends. Some sacrifices had to be made. She supported the two groups as it meant they would finish before December.

Mr Kruger requested that they not finalise this matter at the meeting, but rather at the subsequent meeting. The laws allowed them to table a minority report on the matter. Could they debate the minority report before making a final decision?

The Chairperson said she was unclear because the meeting was meant to adopt the programme so they may begin with it. Postponing would delay the whole process. The Bill had already been accepted; they just needed to embark on the programme. The matter which Mr Kruger raised was not related to the Bill itself. She could not agree with him.

She clarified to say that they adopted the proposal from the Department. And they agreed to regard the proposal as the Bill. Once again, she suggested that they adopt the programme.

The programme was then adopted.

Mr de Villiers suggested the Committee make note of all the parties who voted in favour of the programme and those who were against it. He wanted it to be noted that the Democratic Alliance (DA) did not support the programme.

Mr Jacobs supported the Chairperson’s ruling. He was unsure why there was a fuss, as the programme had already been agreed to. He pleaded with everyone to cooperate, as time was against them. He recalled that, in the previous meeting, they adopted a programme that had public hearings in December 2023. He thought speaking with the other parties was important to hear their thoughts. With the programme adopted, the administration could begin their work. They could not allow for any delays. Could they proceed with the ruling in effect? All the parties were working hard in their campaigns. The African National Congress (ANC) was trying to motivate young people to register to vote. The Members were working 24/7. The Committee would engage with the public during the public hearings.

The Chairperson said she would lead the first group and Mr Jacobs would lead the second one. Could the staff members circulate the names in the two groups by noon? It was important to accommodate the National Council of Provinces (NCOP).

Mr Kunene clarified that the Committee had a protocol where the Members would divide themselves. The staff could not do this.

Mr M Mabika (DA) mentioned that the month of November 2023 was a very critical one. As the heads of their parties, they had to do a lot of work, and they had no deputies. They previously agreed to look into the matter of weekends. Was the registration weekend considered?

The Chairperson mentioned that all inputs would be considered, and then they would assess how best to handle the situation. She thanked everyone for their time at the meeting.

The meeting was adjourned.