SEDA & SEFA Quarter 1 performance with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed the Chairperson of SEDA and the delegation from SEDA. She said they were going to receive a briefing from SEDA on its Annual Report for 2017/18 financial year.

Briefing by the Small Enterprise Development Agency (SEDA)

Dr Mzwandile Zwane, Chairperson, SEDA, thanked the Chairperson for the opportunity to present the SEDA Quarter 1 Performance Information to the Committee. He said that the presentation outline will look at the following:

1. Governance & Compliance
2. Performance Report
3. Human Resources Report
4. Financial Information
5. Risk and Mitigation
6. Conclusion

Dr Zwane said in terms of governance and compliance it was critical for the period for the submission of a draft Annual Report and un-audited Financial Statements, finalisation of the internal audit reports and annual policy review work. There was only one Board meeting which was held on 30 May 2018. There were two meetings for the Strategy and Organisational Performance Committee which were held in April and May 2018. The Audit and Risk Committee held a meeting on 24 May 2018 and Human Resources and the Remuneration Committee held a meeting on 23 May 2018.   

Ms Mandisa Tshikwatamba, CEO, SEDA said that the SEDA’s 2014 – 2019 Strategic Plan and Annual Performance Plan’s 2016/17 – 2018/19 aim is to contribute to Outcomes Four and Seven of the Medium Term Strategic Framework (MTSF) 2014-2019, which are ‘Decent employment through inclusive growth’ and vibrant, equitable, sustainable rural communities contributing towards food security for all’.

SEDA’s planning takes into account the following Stakeholder Performance Priorities:

• The National Development Plan
• The Medium Term Strategic Framework
• Outcome 7: Vibrant, equitable, sustainable rural communities; and
• Nine Point Plan

Ms Tshikwatamba said in terms of the mandate, strategic goals and objectives the Department of Small Business Development (DSBD) Strategic Goals/Objectives are as follows:

• Policy and planning coherence in the sector, that promotes an enabling ecosystem for SMME’s and co-operatives.
• Equitable access to responsive and targeted products and services that enable the growth and development of SMME’s and co-operatives.
• 3.2. a. Sustainable partnerships to support the co-operatives development agenda.
• 3.2. b. Sustainable partnerships to support the SMME development agenda.

SEDA Strategic outcome oriented goals include:

• Improve sustainability of SMMEs and Cooperatives
• Increase SEDA delivery network to reach un-serviced areas

Maximise support offered to SEDA clients through stakeholder contribution

SEDA adopted the balanced scorecard approach. In its endeavours SEDA would ensure that it is focused on delivering value for its clients and stakeholders, whilst ensuring that the capacity and capability of the institution is enhanced to be able to deliver quality services.

Ms Tshikwatamba said that in terms of the performance statement the desired results are as follows: 

• Improvement in turnover on supported SMMEs and cooperatives
• Improvement in jobs created by supported SMMEs and cooperatives
• Improvement in support for SMMEs and cooperatives based in rural and township areas
• Improvement in support for women, youth and disabled owned SMMEs and cooperatives
• Improvement in business formalisation for supported SMMEs and cooperatives.

SEDA’s performance information is structured in line with SEDA’s approved Annual Performance Plan 2017/18 – 2019/20. It gives information on performance against 26 targeted indicators, both on outcome and output levels. From a total of 26 strategic indicators that were considered for the review, the organisation performed well on 17 indicators, this reflected an organisational performance of 65%.

The organisation did not achieve the following indicators:

• No clients supported through National Gazelles programme
• No clients supported through enterprise coaching
• No clients trained on national and international standards
• No of learners participating in entrepreneurship in schools
• No of informal business supported through BESD
• No of sustained businesses by supported clients
• Increase in turnover of  supported clients
• Value of support leveraged from partners

Ms Tshikwatamba said in terms of performance highlights in programme 1: Enterprise Development by the end of June 2018 a total of 11,450 clients were reached through amongst other the following provincial promotional and marketing actions:

• 57 Events focusing on black entrepreneurs
• 6 Events focusing on women, and
• 75 Events focusing on our youth
• 9 Events focusing on disabled persons

Over R13 million of support that was offered to clients was leveraged from partners, in cash or in-kind.  SEDA branches also facilitated access to loans and grants amounting to R20 million.

The Women Enterprise Coaching Programme 24 sessions were held in four provinces ( Limpopo, KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, Free State), with 110 enterprises participating. 

Export Orientation Programme prepared 21 enterprises for the Torino Fashion Week (Italy).

Targeted training for export ready and export potential clients was conducted in North West, Polokwane and Free State.

Trade facilitation for local trade exhibition supported 40 clients who participated in Smart Procurement Cape Town and Fire and Feast exhibition in Johannesburg.

Supplier development

• Eight (8) women owned farms (North West) that received training on business management skills and logistics planning now supply  SAB with Non GMO yellow maize ( Coops);
• Pick n Pay and Woolworths in Cape Town, Kynsna Municipality, Hullet Aluminium, Natal Portal Cement, Transnet, Toyota & SANRAL supplier linkages established; and
• One of the Western Cape clients was assisted to open a new Spa at the Fire & Ice hotel in Cape Town.

Public Sector Partnerships

They (SEDA) are working with Limpopo Economic Department of Environment and Tourism (LEDET) in three district municipalities to roll out a pilot project for establishing hiking trails running from the communities into the Provincial Parks; Pre incorporated 5 community groups   currently being formalised into registered cooperatives.

MoA (Memorandum of Agreement) with Department of Rural Development and Land Reform (DRDLR)

• capacitate and mentor co-operatives through training programmes;
• facilitate non- financial support services offered by SEDA;
• facilitate access to markets through public and private entities ESD opportunities;
• as well as facilitate the funding of rural enterprises (co-operatives and SMMEs

Target Group Specific Partnerships

There is an MOU with the South African National Council for the Blind (SANCB) & DPSA in KZN.  These will assist them (SEDA) to reach out to people with disabilities and improve our performance in this area by the end of the financial year.

Private Sector Partnerships

Partnership established with Samancor Chrome Mine/SEDA North West will benefit members of four villages, who will receive business management training and interventions to existing cooperatives to enhance their sustainability.

SEDA signed an MOU with the South African Institute of Professional Accountants (SAIPA).  This collaboration will include training & capacity building of BAs and small enterprises by SAIPA at no cost.

SEDA in Free State finalised a partnership with SAICA for mentorship of informal auto body mechanics on business management skills.

They are finalising discussions with Aqua Transport and Equipment Hire for them to fund an office (including 2 staff) that will be utilized by SEDA in Ogies.

Ms Tshikwatamba said that on Programme 2: SEDA Technology Programme the performance highlights noted that the Informal and Micro Enterprise Development Programme (IMEDP) of the DSBD achieved procurement and delivery in quarter 1, through the SEDA provincial and branch network, of R5, 094,718 worth of equipment for 669 beneficiaries.

The MoA with the DSBD was signed for the transfer of the (Enterprise Incubation Programme) EIP to SEDA.

An innovation forum for the automotive sector was held in cooperation with SEDA Free State in June 2018. 35 SMMEs benefited from the opportunities shared, particularly by the innovation partner, Bosch Automotive, and are looking to establish a cluster amongst them to serve the group with high-tech Bosch equipment.

Ms Tshikwatamba said key human resources figures are as follows:

- Total number of staff as at end June 2018 was 668
- Of this number, 183 are Business Advisors (165 as per approved structure +18 MOU)
- Staff vacancy rate currently at 5%, for Business Advisors s 7%
- Significant parts of National Office are in the Enterprise Development Division and

  SEDA’s Technology programme, which is part of the core services.

Mr Norman Msizi, Chief Financial Officer (CFO), SEDA said in terms of the financial report the total revenue budget for SEDA for the 2018/19 financial year amounts to R 811.91m and the total expenditure budget amounts to R811.91m.

The actual expenditure for the period 1 April to 30 June 2018 amounted to R167.97m resulting in a pro-rata under spending of R54.69m (24.56%), against the pro-rata budget of R222.66m. Commitments at the end of June 2018 were about R30.44m.

Dr Zwane concluded that the Portfolio Committee should note the following Overstretched Resources:

• The budget cut implication on their Delivery, in particular for their growth plan;
• Significant impact on budget cut on Incubators as 10% budget cut in 2018/19;
• Deferred IT infrastructure upgrade as funds had to be augmented for client’s service delivery;
• Unsustainable partnerships affect long term planning;
• Inability to respond to partnerships’ expectations due to need to matching funds; and
• For SEDA to have an impact, it needs a good portfolio balance

Discussion

The Chairperson said that there is the information presented to the Committee which has two implications, because when there is more information provided sometimes it invites more questions or less questions since some answers have been given already.

Mr H Kruger (DA) said that it was great to hear how SEDA is trying to develop small businesses in South Africa. But it is more important to make sure that small businesses are sustainable and successful. Research has shown that government red-tape is one of the biggest barriers for small businesses to succeed, not only small businesses to start but also start developing. So, if they looked at the SEDA mandate and SEDA’s main purpose which is to make sure that businesses are successful there is a need for red-tape reduction. He asked how SEDA is going to make sure that red-tape is done away with in order for small businesses to develop and become successful.

Mr N Xaba (ANC) asked in terms of slide 10 on the minus 356 SEDA managed to catch-up on in the next quarter, what made them move the plan to a stage where they were able to catch-up.

Mr Xaba asked in terms of slide 11 why there are so many zeroes which are not reflective to them so that they have a balance and understanding of why the approach is like that.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 13 on the lobbying of partnerships in terms of the R285 million and R3.4 million, what is the strategy and the plan to continue with this.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 17, on the number of clients supported in enterprise coaching in KwaZulu Natal (KZN), Eastern Cape and Northern Cape whether there is a plan to continue this enterprise coaching also to other provinces so as to strike a balance.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 20 on performance highlights how long the contracts with South African National Roads Agency (SANRAL) were and if they were being renewed or reviewed.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 22 also on performance highlights, where the SEDA’s nodal points in the provinces are.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 26 who the driver is of the South African Innovation Centre because when something good has to happen then they need to set up a structure that would realise its success.

Mr Xaba asked on slide 37 on the 18 partnership funds, where in human resources there is a redistribution of staff, what the cost is of the redistribution of staff and what the support is to that staff to provide services.

Mr Xaba commended the movement on the digital revolution in terms of  IT which is indicated in the conclusion of the presentation.

Mr S Bekwa (ANC) appreciated the presentation from the SEDA and believed that the SEDA does have a plan to hit the ground running.

Mr Bekwa asked the CEO whether there is capacity within the SEDA to conduct training and workshops for Small Medium and Micro-sized Enterprises (SMMEs) and Cooperatives or is that function  outsourced elsewhere because he had once visited an area where there was training of Cooperatives by an outside service provider, and is this  linked to the resources and budget of SEDA. Is it possible for SEDA to bring this  training and workshops closer to the people in rural villages in the offices of chiefs because most of these people are unemployed and cannot afford to travel to towns?

Mr Bekwa asked for clarity on the demographics for jobs created, 66 jobs created in rural areas, 40 women benefited in rural areas, and 36 youth jobs created, what is the exact number of jobs created in rural areas because 40 and 36 does not add up to 66 as indicated in the presentation.

Mr R Chance (DA) asked whether SEDA as a Government institution should it not lead the incubation and mentorship in terms of financing township business because a lot of private sector money is spent in this field of the township economy.

Mr Chance said in terms of access to finance there is a concept of blended finance and SEDA has a budget close to R800 million much of which  goes to direct support to businesses, which effectively are grants. Secondly, because of the concept of the blended finance, which is essentially the mixture of grants, equity and loans, what is the role of blended finance in the SMME space?

Mr Chance asked in terms of the gazelles why it is zero because it has been transferred from the Tia dynamic to SEDA, why could they not  have new intake, why was there no report on the existing intake one and intake two, what happened to those? It should be remembered that his was meant to be a pilot; the numbers were deliberately small so that it could be monitored closely. And the idea set up by Tia dynamics was that after three years they would be able to see the efficacy of this program and presumably if it works they could massively scale it up. Have they (SEDA) tracked the businesses over time because the overall impact is very key?

Mr Chance asked how SEDA set the turnover target of R1.2 billion, was that just a conglomeration of businesses, it is working with multiplied by the factors?

Mr Chance asked for clarity with regard to the status of the BEE rating and why it continued to frustrate SEDA.

Mr Chance asked in terms of the costs of the SEDA technology programme compared with the turnover, does SEDA get value for money there.

Mr Chance asked how many of SEDA’s incubates, the businesses in SEDA’s various programmes have graduated into the black industrialists programme.

Mr Chance asked what interaction in this quarter SEDA had with the Department in consultations over the amendment of the National Small Businesses Act.

Mr T Malaudzi (EFF) asked which ‘un-served' areas is being talked about in particular on slide 7 of the presentation because most of the SEDA offices are in developed areas not in rural areas and people there cannot travel to towns. Are there any outreach programmes or mobile offices that can reach rural areas such as Masisi in Venda?

Mr Malaudzi asked what the figures or numbers are per item for the desired results SEDA wanted in slide 9 of the presentation because the slide talks about 80% of SMMEs and 20% of Cooperatives. And what the timeframe is for the improvement of support to SMMEs and Cooperatives in urban and rural areas? What  strategy is in the desired results in terms of the mushrooming malls in the townships and village malls because SMMEs are suffocated by these malls? What strategy SEDA has to counter or reduce the mortality rate of more than 80% of the Cooperatives?

Mr Malaudzi asked on slide 11 whether this thing of gazelles does assist SMMEs and Cooperatives because when they were on an oversight tour they saw a lot of corruption through these gazelles incentive s right up to the Cooperatives.

Mr Malaudzi asked with regard to the Technology Transfer support on slide 12 of the presentation, what are the challenges of not getting the technological transfer up to now.

Mr Malaudzi asked how SEDA is going to assist the community to establish Cooperatives so as to reduce the social grant register and indigent register to people.

Mr Malaudzi said he would appreciate it if SEDA would include the bullet point of not establishing Cooperatives in slide 17 of the presentation as one of the indicators that it did not achieve.

Mr Malaudzi asked why SEDA only supported eight women in the North West province alone as indicated in slide 20, and why the support was not scattered to other provinces, and is there a plan for other provinces.

Mr S Mncwabe (NFP) said that he was impressed with the presentation and could see that there is progress and some of the things they’ve been complaining about in previous meetings have been improved.

SEDA’s response

Mr Cassel Mathale, Deputy Minister of the Department of Small Business Development said that with regard to the issue of the failure rate they had a responsibility of small business development across the board, whether it was in agriculture or in mining, which is their space. And if there are challenges that the SMMEs and Cooperatives faced in the country they were the first point of call because if small businesses and Cooperatives are failing it was them who were failing, and if they (SMMEs and Coops) succeeded they also succeeded. Therefore, it is their responsibility as government to make that 88% failure rate go down and they must ensure that the 88% is still there.

Mr Lindukuhle Mkhumane, Acting Director-General, Department Small Business Development said that they are taking  the issue of ‘red-tape’ seriously as a Department especially this year, as they are working with the support of G-TAC to come up with a red-tape reduction strategy. Next week Monday and Tuesday they will be meeting with all provinces, SALGA, Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs (COGTA), SMMEs and Cooperatives to engage in the elements of a red-tape reduction strategy.

Mr Mkhumane said on the issue of blended finance they have  interacted with the Department of Rural Development, the Department of Agriculture, and the Land Bank because these departments have started with the blended finance approach. Although the DSBD is chairing the committee that consists of SEDA and SEFA because they’re looking at coming up with the blended finance model for SMMEs and Cooperatives. So, they are working on that and they will be giving feedback to the Portfolio Committee next year in terms of what approach they are going to take because they also want to learn what other government departments are doing in terms of blended finance. It is critical given the limited resources government has so they cannot continue to have these grants and loans as separate instruments because blended finance is the way to go to ensure  expansion of support and access to affordable finance for SMMEs and Cooperatives.

Dr Zwane said it would be advisable for the Department to present its Portfolio Strategy Framework because some of the questions that have been asked by Members to SEDA are issues that fell outside the organisation’s boundaries, and some of them are issues the government should be looking into.  The Portfolio Strategy Framework was developed in consultation with SEDA and SEFA as implementing agencies and with the Department where there is a clarification of roles as to what the Department will do and what the entities are going to do.

Dr Zwane said that another thing is the whole issue of SEDA ignoring rural areas in terms of servicing them. Historically, this was under the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) and offices were set up where they are and now they are begging to review the position of their offices. There is a programme which has started last year to look at where they are positioned and of course co-location with local departments which is key for them in rural areas. In every report there will be a report on where else they have gone as far as movement towards the rural areas is concerned. They currently have about nine mobile units to reach those rural areas so as to interact with people. They would like to increase those mobile units as well.

Ms Nosipho Khonkwane, Executive Manager, SEDA said that in terms of the incubation centres she would start with the one that looked at the return on investment on the incubators. As they reached the end of the year when reporting in the last period they had actually put forward a report that was indicating the return on investment in what they have put in and what  enterprises  were incubated and were  actually generating on average. Here one was talking about 500% which was very high. So, this was measured.  They implemented a performance based system in terms of paying incubators in each and every quarter because the money SEDA gets is related to the performance of each incubator.

They have  also strengthened the system as well by implementing a costing model which meant that it is not free for all because the amount they decided to fund is based on the output that is expected per incubator and they monitored that on a quarterly basis.

Ms Khonkwane said that in terms of the impact measured in the SEDA supported incubators they do have information. But yes, in terms of the entire ecosystem information they do not have control of that and do not have that information at this stage. But there is actually progress with the Department because they are currently finalising the DSBD framework and that framework will enable SEDA to coordinate within the ecosystem. Central to that framework is the central database whereby all the information in terms of performance of each structure and contributor will be part of the information and it will try to address this challenge of SEDA so that as the Department is speaking it will be able to talk about the performance of the entire ecosystem, not only of SEDA and SEFA, which is where they are progressing towards going forward.

Ms Tshikwatamba said that one of the things driving their partnerships strategy is outreach. The other thing is when they are looking for up-scale projects to leverage their funds they looked  for projects that would give an impact so as to bring other spheres of government, different departments, and municipalities into the mix. The other partnership strategy driver is the technology programme where they are looking at seed funding as an example that can go to these technology centres to assist the entrepreneurs or just to replicate the model of the incubators. The fourth one is the training collaboration where they are looking for partners that have expertise that they do not have inside SEDA in terms of looking at core competencies of their business advisers or in programmes where they could partner with those who are providing the programme.  

Ms Tshikwatamba said that on the issue of ESD (Enterprise Supplier Development) contracts, that it was a combination of things because other contracts are long term contracts like for two years.  For example with a once-off contract the project may be finished in the following year not in the same year. In other cases it is a once-off procurement where something specific like the with Woolworths, Checkers and other retail stores where one of their incubators has been supplying vegetables to retail stores over a period of years.

Ms Tshikwatamba said on the redistribution of staff they were specific there and were talking about regional facilitators for Cooperatives. These are people that were originally seating for example, they had a combination where they will find one person at the national office and other people they will find in the provincial office, but in other instances they will find them in branch office. So, they needed to streamline their model to see what the right place is of placement for regional facilitators for Cooperatives in analysing the work they were doing, who the right peer should be working with, and there should be close proximity in terms of the flow of work. And it was the business advisers because when they do community facilitation they register, they do diagnostic, and interventions have to be done, which meant that as business advisers the impact of their work can be seen.

Ms Tshikwatamba said on the question of whether SEDA is doing training itself or seeks outside intervention in training, a combination approach is used because they have instances where they had to bring in external service providers. And again it is about two things. Firstly, training for Cooperatives is done by their regional facilitators. They only have two regional facilitators per province. Therefore, when the scope of work is high and in doing group training they had to bring in external service providers to run with the training or where there is something specific or specialisation for Cooperative training was necessary they brought in someone with expertise in that specific area.

The Chairperson said that because of the limited time for questions that had not been responded to, they should be answered in writing and sent to the Committee. He thanked Dr Zwane and his delegation from SEDA for the presentation and responses.

Briefing by the Small Enterprise Finance Agency (SEFA)     

Ms Vuyelwa Matsiliza, Executive Manager, SEFA said that because of limited time she will not go through all the slides but will just summarise the important slides. The presentation outlined looked at the following:

• Loan book performance
• Approvals
• Disbursements
• Development impact
• SMMEs financed and jobs facilitated
• Support to targeted groups
• Post-Investment Monitoring
• Portfolio at risk
• Collections
• Financial performance
• Recommendations

Ms Matsiliza said that there was an overview of the 1st quarter organisational performance of the Small Enterprise Finance Agency (SEFA) against its approved corporate plan for the financial year 2018/19. SEFA’s amortised Total Loan Book at the 30 June 2018 was R2 billion. There was R1.2 billion Wholesale Loan Facilities and R800 million Direct Loan Facilities. A total of R86 million loan facilities were approved, representing 50% of the quarterly target and 10% of the annual target. Total disbursements for the quarter was R287 million representing 171% of the quarterly target and 34% of the annual target. The tough economic conditions and issues relating to the broader SMME operating environment exerted on going pressure on the performance of the loan book. The Portfolio at Risk (PAR) at the end of June 2018 was 57% of the total loan book. The majority of organisational activity focused on year-end activity for the 2017/18 financial year. The internal organisational environment remains stable.

Ms Matsiliza said in terms of the loan book performance the total approvals for the quarter was R86 million against the target of R171 million which represent 50% of the quarterly target.

• R26 million from Direct Lending (DL)
• R60 million through the Khula Credit Guarantee (KCG) programme.

The loan programmes could not meet their quarterly approvals target:

• DL: the low quality of deals received and the strict lending conditions which is aimed at improving the quality of the loan book.
• Microfinance: delays experienced during the diligence and financial viability of small microfinance institutions.

The Co-operative’s lending program underperformance was due to the resignation of key staff.

Ms Matsiliza said in terms of the development impact Q1 performance against the target is as follows:

• No of SMMEs and Co-operatives financed – 146%  of target achieved
• Jobs facilitated - 163% of target achieved

The majority of SMMEs and jobs facilitated were contributed by the Microenterprise sector.

Development impact – Targeted groups:

• Youth-owned enterprises received R36 million, Priority rural provinces received R55 million and R4.9 million was disbursed to township enterprises and R502 thousand was to enterprises with people with disabilities.  
• The women-owned enterprises disbursements was R55 million and R116 million for black-owned enterprises.

Ms Matsiliza said in terms of post investment monitoring the Portfolio At Risk (PAR) represented an outstanding loan balance account (60 days+ in arrears).

• Total PAR is 57%
• The total SEFA loan book is worth R2 Billion comprising of WL- R1,2 billion & DL- R800 million.  
• The Bridging Loan book risk percentage is at 89% worth about R116 million.
• The Term Loan book risk percentage is at 66% worth R762 million.
• The total portfolio impairments as 30 June were 46%, a 6% increase from the previous year.
• Due to the non- performance in the cooperative loan book and microfinance.

Ms Matsiliza said the total SEFA collection for the quarter under review is R76 million (92% of the quarterly target). Direct Lending was R42 million and the Wholesale loan was R34 million.

Discussion

Mr Chance asked how is it possible that two columns indicating quarter 1 achieved had different numbers. And the 31% does not compare with the figure given on the previous slide. Why were there  two quarter 1 columns with different numbers?

Ms Mtsiliza said the first column with quarter 1 achievements was supposed to reflect the percentage achieved. But unfortunately in this particular case the target is also a percentage. Therefore, the next column is supposed to represent the percentage of achievement of that percentage, and that is where the confusion is.  

Mr Chance said that this is reflecting the first quarter, but how can the percentage from the year to date be a different percentage from the first quarter.

Ms Matsiliza apologised and said they would revise that because from the year to date it was not applicable.

Mr Chance said the presentation before the Committee is not the one that is supposed to be presented to the Committee because it is different from the one on the year to date.

Mr Malaudzi said that this presentation is very confusing and they are disappointed as Members because they expected this presentation to have been forwarded to the Department and corrected before it is presented to the Committee. Therefore, this presentation is misleading and he suggested that they suspend this meeting altogether so that SEFA can go and come back with a proper presentation.

The Chairperson said that it seems the Committee accepted the apology from SEFA in terms of the mistakes that were noted by Members.

Mr Chance said that he will send his questions to the Deputy Minister in terms of this presentation and any other future corrections made to it.

Mr Xaba said that maybe the Deputy Minister and the Acting DG would want to comment on this matter.

The Deputy Minister said that in terms of the issues raised by Members they should agree with the Committee notes on what has been submitted. But they (SEFA) must submit a revised document including the columns that were not reflected correctly, and a revised document that takes into account the concerns raised by Members.

The Chairperson said therefore they have come to a situation where they said that SEFA must come back with a refined presentation noting the inputs and understanding of the Committee, which was part of the oversight of the Committee.

The Deputy Minister said the issue of the presentation is noted and the questions from Members are going to be directed to them (Department and SEFA) and they must respond to those questions. It is taken that the presentation has been presented and the only thing they needed to do is to bring a revised document. There  will not be another presentation, not unless he has misunderstood the situation.

Mr Malaudzi disagreed with the Deputy Minister that this document that has been presented is correct because it is incorrect. The Committee wanted a fresh document with a fresh presentation. They must not be misled by this document, and this document is not for recording but is for discussion and deliberation so that Members can ask questions directly to the officials. As Members they have so many questions and already he has eight questions to ask in terms of this document.

The Chairperson asked Mr Malaudzi he did not think perhaps his eight questions could assist to refine the document if forwarded those questions rather than saying that there is no document which is the understanding of the Committee at the moment.

Mr Malaudzi said his understanding is that the current document is misleading but the Committee can take a different view, but as the EFF their feeling should be on record that this document is misleading and they cannot encourage the laziness to continue.

Mr Xaba said that they have noted the areas that required improvement in this document and that did not represent a total rejection of the whole document.

The Chairperson asked whether Mr Malaudzi wanted to ask his question now or could he forward them to the Deputy Minster.

Mr Malaudzi said that throughout the tenure of the 5th Parliament they have been asking questions directly to the officials but because of the dictatorship of the acting Chairperson he will oblige and forward his questions to the Deputy Minister.

The Deputy Minister said that Mr Malaudzi has eight questions which emanated from the same document that was presented by SEFA. There are areas of weaknesses in the document that the Committee has noted and which needed to be corrected, and they are agreeing to that. The Chairperson’s comment does not dictate anything; it is just a way forward which must be accepted. But as a Department they will assure Mr Malaudzi that they will respond in writing to all his eight questions and if they do not respond they will come before the Committee and Mr Malaudzi who will then have an opportunity to grill them in terms of the commitment they have made and failed to meet that commitment.

Ms Matsiliza apologised again to the Committee for the incorrect information and said they will correct whatever has been raised by Members and resubmit the presentation to the Committee.

The Chairperson said the questions will be forwarded and there has been a commitment that questions will be responded to in writing by the Deputy Minister, the Department and SEFA including refining the figures.

The Chairperson thanked the Deputy Minister, the Department officials and the delegation from SEFA for availing themselves and appearing before the Committee.

The meeting was adjourned.