National Lotteries Commission Chairperson Vacancy: shortlisting candidates for interviews

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Trade, Industry and Competition

24 February 2021
Chairperson: Mr D Nkosi (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Video: Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry

The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry met on a virtual platform to consider the applications for the position of Chairperson of the National Lottery Commission. After withdrawals and a rejection, there were 37 candidates on the list.

After reviewing the criteria for the position, Members engaged in an extended discussion of process with the Chairperson who indicated that he wished to be as inclusive as possible. Members discussed the scrutinising of the curricula vitae before the shortlisting process was completed and the vetting of candidates by the State Security Agency before interviews were held.

The Committee determined that six candidates would be nominated for the interview process. Each party would nominate up to six candidates and that the total number of nominees would be whittled down to six at the following meeting after each Member or party had presented a motivation for his or her nominee/s.

The DA indicated that, as per the criteria, it had nominated an inclusive list that contained representatives from all sectors of society. The DA and the ANC each nominated six applicants while the EFF nominated two candidates. A total of nine applicants were nominated in the process.

DA:

Mr Dlamini Themba

Ms Beryl Ferguson

Rev Barney Pityana

Mr Gugulethu Xaba

Mr Terry Tselane

Mr Ashwin Trikamjee

ANC

Ms Precious N Sibya

Rev Barney Pityana

Rev Frank Chikane

Dr Muthuhandini Madzivhandila

Mr Terry Tselane

Mr William E Huma

EFF

Dr Muthuhandini Madzivhandila

Mr Terry Tselane

The Committee determined that the minor parties that had membership of the Committee would be invited to submit names and that the final selection of six names for the shortlist would take place on Friday 24 February 2021.

Meeting report

Opening remarks
The Chairperson welcomed everyone to the meeting and the agenda was adopted, with the shortlisting of candidates for the position of Chairperson of the National Lottery Commission (NLC) being the only item of business.

The Chairperson added that he had received correspondence about another item but that he would present that at a later stage.

List of Candidates
The Committee Secretary flighted a list of all applicants for the position.

Ms Y Yako (EFF) expressed her concern at the colour-coding on the list of candidates and wanted to know what the colour coding meant.

The Secretary explained that some names on the list that had been sent to Members had been colour-coded and that the colour-coding had been indicators for the administrative staff to check for relevant documents and information on the Curricula Vitae (CVs). He admitted that it should not have been left on the list. The colour coding had been removed from the list flighted on the screen that morning.

Ms Yako suggested that colour-coding should not be left on the list as it could influence one’s decision in what was a very serious matter.

Mr M Cuthbert (DA) asked the Chairperson to explain the process. He understood that the Committee was going to go through the list to ensure that each candidate had submitted a CV.  Was the Committee going through every CV or did political parties nominate their chosen candidates?

The Chairperson stated that the Committee would have to agree on the list and then it would have to agree on the process or raise issues. The process would be discussed after the list had been considered. The Committee was still in the introductory part of the meeting.

The Secretary reminded Members that Prof T Madonsela had withdrawn her application before the parliamentary recess. He added that Ms Thabang Kekana had withdrawn her application on 8 December 2020. Dr Somadoda Fikeni had to seek permission from the Public Service Commission to accept the position and he had not submitted such permission.

The Chairperson asked for comment on the list. The original list had 41 applicants. There were currently 38.

Mr Cuthbert noted that Dr Somadoda Fikeni had recently been appointed as Commissioner of the Public Service Commission. By virtue of the fact that he had not provided the information regarding his availability and by virtue of the fact that there might be a conflict of interest between the two positions, he proposed that Dr Fikeni’s name be removed from the list.

The Committee agreed.

Ms Yako asked about the procedure and the number of candidates to be nominated.

The Chairperson noted that Ms Yako was ahead of him and requested the Secretary to move on to the procedural document.

Ms J Hermans (ANC) requested that titles, such as Adv, Dr, etc. be affixed before the names.

Procedural document
The Chairperson requested the Secretary to read through the procedural document as part of the introductory process.

The Secretary addressed the procedural document. He assumed that Members knew the legislative requirements but it was important for them to be reminded of the criteria to be used. He explained that the Committee had been through the legislative requirements in some detail when determining that it was the Committee’s responsibility, and not that of the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition, to appoint the Chairperson.

He referred to the fact that the first bullet point related to legislative requirements. Bullet point 2 identified the functions of the board. Bullet point 3 related to the procedure as set out in the National Lotteries Act. That was followed by the administrative process and was how the Committee had reached the point of shortlisting.

Bullet point 5 was the criteria for the appointment, including criteria that would exclude a person from the position. He read point 5 out in full:
5.1 Criteria that would disqualify nominated candidates
   The Chairperson must have applicable knowledge or experience with regard to matters
connected with the functions of the board (section 3(1)(a)).
In line with section 3A, the chairperson, as a board member, must:
(a) Be a South African citizen.
(b) Not be a political office bearer.
(c) Be qualified to act as a director of a company incorporated in terms of the Companies
Act, 2008 (Act No. 71 of 2008).
d) Not have been found guilty in any civil or criminal proceedings by a court of law, whether
in the Republic or elsewhere, to have acted fraudulently, dishonestly, unprofessionally,
dishonourably or in breach of a fiduciary duty, or of any other offence for which such
person has been sentenced to direct imprisonment without the option of a fine.
(e) Not have been removed from a position of trust.
(f) Not have his or her membership of a board or any other accounting authority of a public
entity being prematurely terminated in the past five years due to misconduct.
(g) Not have been found to be in contravention of this Act or any other Act applicable to the
public service in the past five years.
(h) Not have been declared by a court of law to be of an unsound mind.
(i) Be financially solvent.

5.2 Possible criteria that can be used to screen candidates:
1.Have specific skills and practices and the ability to lead the board in an objective  manner. Have the ability to show restraint, be patient and be available. Have knowledge or experience regarding the functions and the principles underlying the role of the board as per the Act and boards generally. Should be impartial.
2.
Experience in chairing meetings of strong individuals with specific areas of expertise and diverse ideas.

3.
Ability to lead the development of strategy and give strategic direction.

4.
Knowledge/experience of the principles of corporate governance as contained in King Reports on Corporate Governance and the Companies Act.

5.
Person of good standing in the community and with a history of moral/ethical leadership.

6.
Skills to analyse reports critically.

7. History of promoting openness and transparency and a good understanding of the Batho Pele principles.

8.
Experience of working with large funds and budgets and a clear understanding of the Public Finance Management Act.
9. Experience in the appointment of, and contracting senior staff members, setting of performance criteria and the performance evaluation of senior managers.

10. Experience of keeping senior managers accountable.


11. Have a good understanding of delegations and what responsibilities should be delegated to the Commissioner.

12. Experience of policy development and implementation.

13. An understanding of the social impact of gambling and the social responsibilities of the NLC.

14. Display leadership qualities, in particular self-management and self-motivation.

15. Person that would be able to effectively act as the “face” of the NLC.

16.Membership on other boards.


The Chairperson called for comment.

Ms Yako asked for confirmation that every CV had been checked against the criteria.

Mr Cuthbert asked if there had been a response to Ms Yako’s earlier question as to how many candidates would be nominated for the shortlist.

The Chairperson explained that the Members themselves would shortly determine responses to the two questions.

The Secretary explained that the secretariat was in the process of checking the details of CVs compared to requirements of the post. There would also be a full vetting of the shortlisted candidates before the interviews.

Mr Cuthbert asked whether it was not necessary to complete the process of checking before the shortlisting process. He agreed that the appointment had to be completed as a matter of urgency so that the Committee could restore the organisation itself, but he also wanted to make sure that there was complete compliance.

The Chairperson stated that all applicants had to respond to certain requirements and there had been communication with everyone on the list, so he was of the impression that all candidates qualified for appointment. He assured Members that all vetting would be complete before the start of the interviews. That process had to be concluded without delay but the secretariat would inform Members whether a CV had been checked or not when the shortlisting took place. The point was to be noted.

Ms Yako agreed with Mr Cuthbert that all CVs should have been vetted so that there would not be a need to determine whether a person could or could not do the work. If there were two or three names outstanding, she suggested that the Committee adjourn and meet later in the day after the secretariat had completed the task.

The Chairperson understood her point but perhaps it would be better for the secretariat to flag any candidate who was nominated but whose CV had not been vetted. He accepted the point that everyone should be treated the same and there should be no compromising of anyone.

Mr Cuthbert agreed that it would be possible for the process to move forward and for the secretariat to flag any candidates nominated by Members whose CVs had not been vetted. The candidate would be shortlisted with the proviso that he or she was cleared in the vetting process.

The Chairperson welcomed Mr Z Burns-Ncamashe (ANC) and invited him to make his “maiden speech”.

Mr Burns-Ncamashe stated that if one had to juxtapose the process against the normal bidding process, the standard operating procedure would be to say that in order to understand who complies with the criteria, the Committee has to evaluate the responsiveness of the applicants. If those candidates shortlisted were responsive to the criteria, then one could refer the shortlist of candidates to the relevant institutions that would take responsibility for vetting, which was a security clearance in line with legislation. Normally vetting would be undertaken by the State Security Agency (SSA). If one took the entire list of 41 applicants, it was a lot of work, and only six or eight candidates were to be shortlisted. His view was that the Committee should request a clearance from the SSA only for those candidates who were shortlisted and that could be completed before the interview process.

Mr S Mbuyane (ANC) welcomed Mr Ncamashe to the Committee and seconded his proposal. In terms of the procedure, it would be proper to nominate first and then the nominated candidates be vetted as one would find that most candidates would not be shortlisted.

Ms Yako requested that, for the sake of transparency and fairness, the secretary name the candidates who had not been vetted prior to the process of shortlisting so that it did not seem like interference when one nominated someone and was told that the person had not been vetted.

The Chairperson stated that he wanted to move on to the process of shortlisting and that when candidates were nominated, he would ask the secretariat if the person had been vetted because no one could be stopped from nominating a person simply because that person had not yet been vetted. All the candidates on the list could be nominated.

The Secretary stated that Mr Burns-Ncamashe had explained the normal process that all Committees followed and that the shortlisted candidates would be vetted by the SSA.

The Chairperson noted that all candidates were available for nomination and the secretariat would alert the Committee to a nominated candidate whose CV had not yet been vetted.

The Secretary reminded the Chairperson that the Committee had to determine how many candidates would be on the shortlist. A second decision to be made was whether nominations would be made by individuals or parties.

Determination of length of shortlist and process of nominating
Ms Hermans proposed that six candidates be included on the shortlist as that would provide a sufficiently large pool for the Committee to find a good Chairperson. She also suggested that individual Members submit names for the shortlist in the meeting.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
Mr Cuthbert seconded the proposal of a shortlist of six names and that individual Members be permitted to nominated candidates, but he queried the process of eliminating any additional nominations to get to six names on the shortlist. Would Members vote on the names or how would they get from say eight nominations to six? Would the list be ranked? He suggested the use of a single transferable vote order system where one ranked the nominations which resulted in a ranked list from all voters. Was that possible in Parliament? Or would the Committee have a discussion and then determine which candidates fell off the list that way?

Ms Yako stated that a list of only six candidates was limiting and candidates who otherwise might have qualified would not get to be interviewed. She rejected the proposal of six names and proposed a shortlist of ten candidates. Each party should have nominees and they should all go forward for shortlisting.

The Chairperson replied that if the Committee could not decide upon only six candidates, Members should try and whittle down the list of names by each motivating for the person that he or she had initially nominated. He was not going to stipulate whether it should be parties or Members that nominated. Those who wished to nominate should be able to do so. He suggested going ahead and then seeing whether the Committee could find the correct fit.

Mr Mbuyane agreed with the number of six candidates on the shortlist and that individuals or parties could nominate and then the Committee would have a long list which the Members could reduce to six at the next meeting that Friday.

Ms Yako rejected the number of six on a shortlist and formally proposed a shortlist of ten candidates. Six was way too small a number.

 The proposal was not seconded and the proposal for a shortlist of six candidates was carried.

The Secretary explained that the Members or parties should nominate their candidates and if the number was above six, the Members would have to deliberate and come up with six names to put forward.

The Committee agreed to table all names in the meeting so that the parties could consider the full list of names in the party caucuses the following day.

The Chairperson was quite sure that Members had a list from which they would nominate names. He confirmed that the Committee would go ahead with the process of nominating candidates and then they would work out a process for whittling down the names to six if that was necessary. He suggested that Members send their lists to the Secretary, but if Members so preferred, they could nominate the candidates in the Committee. He asked for comment from the Secretary.

The Secretary stated that the secretariat awaited the decision of the Committee, but as it was an open meeting, he would advise that Members state the names for the shortlist in the meeting.

Mr Cuthbert seconded the Chairperson’s proposal to go ahead and nominate candidates.

The Secretary asked the Committee Members whether they agreed to give names at that point.

Ms Hermans proposed that all Members tabled the names that they were proposing for the shortlist at the meeting so that political parties could consider the names at their caucuses the following day.

Mr Burns-Ncamashe noted that Ms Yako was putting across a suggestion on behalf of the EFF party. He stated that the process had to be transparent and credible.  The Committee had agreed to a shortlist of six candidates. In line with participatory democracy, parties could request each Member to nominate a candidate or two. He was uncertain if the point that he was making was clear.

The Chairperson noted that the Committee had agreed to a final list of six candidates for shortlisting. It would not be wrong for a party to nominate fewer that six candidates. He was sure that every party had its own list of who should be on that list.  He asked whether Members wished to simply send in a list or whether the Members wished to do it in the live Committee meeting.

The Secretary advised that, because it was intended to be an open process, the names should be tabled in the meeting.

Mr Cuthbert wished to nominate candidates but the Chairperson required a process where Members could discuss the matter.

The Chairperson asked whether the meeting could proceed with proposing names.

Mr Cuthbert suggested that Members should verbalise the nominations.

The Chairperson asked whether other parties were happy to continue.

Ms Hermans proposed that names be tabled in the meeting and that Members or political parties could go ahead and propose the names. Individual Members of the ANC would each be nominating candidates for the ANC’s proposed list of six.
 
Nominations for the shortlist
The Chairperson invited Members to announce their proposed lists of candidates for shortlisting. He noted that each ANC Member would participate by nominating one or two candidates. He invited Mr Cuthbert to begin the process.

Mr Cuthbert stated that he was presenting a list of names on behalf of the DA.

Ms Yako asked for clarification. Was each Member of the ANC going to have its own list?

The Chairperson explained that he thought that it was participative democracy and each ANC members would nominate a couple of names towards the ANC list of names.

Mr Burns-Ncamashe added that the ANC was engaging in participatory democracy and each Member would get to nominate one or two candidates. Ms Yako should not worry as the ANC would end up with six names.

Mr Cuthbert stated that, having done extensive research on all candidates, including looking for past scandals and the like, the DA had arrived at the following six names. He suggested that parties nominated candidates first and then the Committee could discuss the candidates, ensuring that the final list encompassed diversity, etc. He believed that the six names he had selected were candidates who were fit for office and that the combined list met all the criteria agreed upon by the Committee:
Mr Themba Dlamini
Ms Beryl Ferguson
Rev Barney Pityana
Mr Gugulethu Xaba
Mr Ashwin Trikamjee
Mr Terry Tselane

Ms Hermans nominated Precious N Sibiya and Barney Pityana.

Mr Burns-Ncamashe nominated Mr Rev Frank Chikane.

Ms M Motaung (ANC) nominated Dr Muthuhandini Madzivhandila.

Mr Mbuyane nominated Terry Tselane and, because that name was already there, he would also nominate William E Huma.

The Chairperson invited Mr Mbuyane to nominate six candidates, regardless of whether or not another party had also nominated a candidate.

The Secretary explained that the secretariat would indicate on the final list which candidates had been nominated by more than one party.

Ms Hermans requested that all names nominated by the ANC be listed, regardless of whether they had been nominated by another party.

Ms Yako nominated the following candidates on behalf of the EFF: Dr Muthuhandini Madzivhandila and Mr Terry Tselane.

The Secretary explained that Members of the ACDP and FF+ had submitted apologies for early departure and absence respectively. The IFP had an Alternate Member on the Committee.

The Chairperson asked Committee Members whether the Committee would like to discuss the names or whether they needed to wait for other Members who were absent. He believed that the secretariat should check whether the other parties had any names that they wished to contribute to the shortlist process.

Ms Hermans proposed that, in the spirit of inclusion, the Committee approach the ACDP and FF+ to submit names for shortlisting.

Mr Cuthbert supported the proposal, noting that Members of smaller parties would already be in the budget lockdown, but added that a deadline of the close of business that day should be imposed.

Mr Mbuyane was partially covered but he said that the Committee would not discuss any names that day as that would mean that the Committee was re-scheduling the Friday meeting for that day. Parties needed to engage before Friday.

The Committee agreed to the proposal to invite smaller parties to nominate candidates.

Closing remarks
The Chairperson stated that the Secretary should inform the smaller parties with immediate effect. He requested the secretariat take a look at the vetting of candidates. He understood that Members were calling for closure of the meeting and requested the Secretary to indicate the way forward.

The Secretary indicated that he would contact the smaller parties immediately and the Members would receive any additional names before the caucus meetings the following morning. The consolidated list could be discussed on Friday.

Ms Hermans asked whether the IFP had representation on the Committee.

The Secretary explained that the IFP had an Alternate Member on the Committee. Nothing prevented the Committee from inviting an Alternate Member to submit names.

The Chairperson agreed that Alternate Members could submit names as long as they understood that they would not be permitted to take part in any decisions.

Ms Yako asked that the secretariat outline, in writing, the procedure going forward.

The Chairperson indicated that that was the introductory part of Friday’s meeting. The secretariat would provide him with the necessary support.

The Chairperson noted that no one else wished to speak and he adjourned the meeting until Friday 26 February 2021 when the shortlist would be finalised.

The meeting was adjourned.

 

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