Commission for Gender Equality vacancies: Interviews day 4

Meeting report

Interview process
At the beginning of each interview, the Chairperson explained that the interview process would last 45 minutes and English should be used as the primary language for communication. However, the candidate may occasionally use a language of their preference to explain certain terms. Thereafter, the candidates were given five minutes to introduce themselves.

At the end of each interview, the candidates were asked if they had questions of clarity. The Chairperson explained that the candidate would be informed of the outcome in due course. The Committee’s job was to make recommendations to the President, who made the final appointments.

Candidate 1: Mr Bongani Glenton Ngomane
The Chairperson informed the candidate that OUTA found nothing about the candidate on social media and that there were no negative public comments about him.

Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy, Ms F Maziko (ANC) asked the candidate what his understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate his understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

Mr L Mphithi (DA) asked if the candidate was still working for the state.

Noting that the candidate had replied yes, he asked if that would be a conflict of interest and thought that the candidate would have to resign if he was employed full-time at the Commission.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate was applying for a full-time or part-time position.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate to expand on his achievements during his employment in the Department of Social Development.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate how he would champion the LGBTQI issue at the Commission.

Mr Mphithi asked if the candidate had any interaction with the CGE. If not, he asked the candidate’s view of the current Commission.

Ms B Marekwa (ANC) noted the candidate’s work as a concerned citizen and his involvement in the community such as the establishment of the Men’s Forum and Young Boys Programme. She was fascinated by the Adopting a Gogo programme to protect the elderly in communities.

Ms Marekwa stated the Constitution stipulates that all Chapter 9 institutions must be impartial and independent. She asked why the Constitution required this.

She asked if the candidate regarded himself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked the candidate to demonstrate why.

Ms N Hlonyana (EFF) noted the candidate’s vast experience and the senior position he had held in the public sector. As a chief director, the candidate had over 3 000 people directly or indirectly under his leadership. She asked the candidate to elaborate on his academic disciplines at the undergraduate, honours and masters level.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had advocacy and litigation experience.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had policy or legislative review experience.

Ms Hlonyana asked the candidate to elaborate on the Boy Child programme and Men’s Forums, which were initiatives he had established.

Ms N Sharif (DA) asked the candidate to expand and give more details on the 365 day men’s award in his programme. She did not believe in praising a fish for swimming and asked the candidate why he believed it was a good idea.

Ms Sharif asked the candidate to comment on the National Strategic Plan for Gender-Based Violence and Femicide (GBVF). She asked for his perception of the National Strategic Plan, how successful the plan was in addressing the issue and how he had implemented the plan during his service in the public sector.

Ms T Masondo (ANC) stated that a key strategic outcome of 2019-2024 states that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to the CGE.

Ms M Hlengwa (IFP) asked why the candidate believed that he had leadership skill. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by providing an example that showed his leadership style.

Ms C Phiri (ANC) noted the gap about the LGBTQI community in the candidate’s response. Gender issues should not be confined to boys and girls and there cannot be peace if people who identify as LGBTQI still have to hide their identity and not be accepted by their communities.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate, if appointed, how he would advise government departments, entities, and the private sector about mainstreaming gender to achieve gender equality. She noted he envisaged the CGE to be a friend of the court in cases and his proposal to engage the film industry. She asked how he himself had mainstreamed gender equality when he was a Chief Director and how many females he had employed.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate about his understanding of gender discrimination, homophobia and intolerance of non-binary persons.

Candidate 2: Adv Olave Nthabiseng Sepanya Mogale
The candidate is currently serving as a CGE Commissioner on a part-time basis.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation. She asked if the candidate felt the CGE and its enabling legislation supported the Commissioners in fulfilling their responsibilities.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner was.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate as a serving Commissioner to identify the challenges the organisation faced. He asked her to indicate the interventions she had taken. If appointed again, how would she address and solve those challenges to avoid them happening again.

Mr Mphithi said it was important to keep institutional knowledge in the organisation. Noting all the problems, what types of roles would the candidate play to solve these if reappointed. CGE is a fundamental institution for our country but it is facing challenges at the moment which undermine its ability to perform its mandate.

The Chairperson asked the candidate for her understanding of the independence of the CGE vis-à-vis the Portfolio Committee's oversight function. She asked the question concerning the media reporting that CGE Commissioners had accused the Committee of interfering in the work of the Commission.

Ms Masondo stated that a key strategic outcome of 2019-2024 states that CGE intends to promote gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to the CGE.

The Chairperson interjected and asked the candidate how CGE was supposed to practise in the legal profession while it was ripped of its legal standing.

The Chairperson asked the candidate how long the CGE had noted this challenge and how long it would take to rectify this so it could fulfil its litigation mandate.

The Chairperson followed up and said that CGE had taken more than two years to fill the position of its Head of Legal Services. She asked how the institution had coped in the absence of that post.

The Chairperson interjected and repeated the question about the vacant legal position.

Ms Sharif said that since the candidate had been part of the CGE for quite some time, it was Committee Members’ responsibility to ask more questions about the daily running of the CGE and its performance.

Ms Sharif noted the candidate’s response that acknowledged that the CGE had to account to the National Assembly which this panel was part of. She asked why the 2022/23 CGE Q1 performance report had not been submitted when the Committee had requested it.

Ms Sharif raised the concern that a lot of the critique about the CGE was about its recommendations not being implemented. She asked what the candidate would have done differently if the candidate was reappointed.

Ms Sharif asked Commissioner Mogale what would happen under her leadership as the CGE published a report indicating the non-performance of governmental departments in promoting gender equality. This was especially bad because the Department of Women had achieved zero targets according to that CGE report.

The Chairperson emphasised the importance of finalising the CGE Commissioner Handbook to Commissioner Mogale.

Ms Hlonyana agreed with her colleagues’ view that it was difficult to interview an incumbent.

With the challenges CGE faced, Ms Hlonyana highlighted the importance of possessing effective and excellent communication skills to communicate internally and externally with others. She asked how the candidate would improve communication amongst Commissioners to be united and deliver on the CGE mandate. She noted that CGE had been accused of being unknown in rural areas and its roles and responsibilities not understood by communities. She asked how the candidate would improve this to expand the organisation’s reach in rural areas and be understood by women in those areas.

As Commissioner Mogale’s term was coming to an end, Ms Hlonyana asked her to name a few highlights of her achievement in legislative and policy review.

Ms Phiri said that given the candidate’s current position at the Commission, she would not be getting the same questions as other candidates as the Committee would have different expectations for her.

Ms Phiri highlighted the rights of disabled children, many of whom, in her observation, were sitting at home unable to attend school because of the lack of schools equipped to accommodate disabled children in provinces. She believed that this fell under the Commission’s responsibility. She asked what CGE could do to assist and what recommendations the candidate had made to Parliament to assist disabled children during her tenure as a Commissioner.

Ms Phiri noted that her constituency was a border town that had many migrant women living there either legally or illegally. Many undocumented migrant women, after suffering GBV, are unable to open a case at the police station due to their lack of identification documents. In her opinion, women should be protected by law irrespective of nationality. She asked the candidate to indicate if there is an international treaty that addressed this and if this had received attention and been discussed by the Commission. She further asked if the Commission had made recommendations on this.

The Chairperson noted that suspended Commissioner Mbuyiselo Botha had attended an event whilst on suspension. Commissioner Botha still unethically described himself as a CGE Commissioner. She asked the candidate how the Commission was going to handle the matter.

The Chairperson requested the candidate provided a report on the matter when CGE appeared before the Committee in October. She found it unacceptable that Commissioners did as they pleased. She described the Commissioner’s behaviour as deliberately disregarding the CGE code of conduct and the Constitution.

Ms Sharif suggested that the Committee seek more information from the CGE Chairperson.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate why she believed she was the most suitable candidate for the vacancy and to demonstrate her leadership skill. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by providing an example that showed her leadership style.

Ms Marekwa stated the Constitution stipulates that all Chapter 9 institutions must be impartial and independent. She asked if, during her tenure as Commissioner, CGE had executed its roles and functions with independence and impartiality as the Constitution required of all Chapter 9 institutions.

She asked if there was an instance as a Commissioner when she had to challenge authority at her own expense to protect the independence of the organisation.

Ms Marekwa asked the candidate what she would do better if she should be appointed again.

The Chairperson asked the candidate for an explanation about West Rand Municipality which had been raised in the public comment process.

Candidate 3: Ms Makosha Emily Maditsi
Ms Hlongo asked the candidate how she would advise the Commission to promote gender equality in the public and private sector.

Ms Hlongo asked the candidate for her understanding of gender discrimination, homophobia and intolerance of non-binary or non-conforming persons. How would she deal with complaints of such nature?

The Chairperson noted the candidate’s solution of using social media to convey the gender equality message but asked how she would reach out to rural women who were not even aware of social media.

The Chairperson noted the candidate’s response that adverts should be put on Quantum taxis to convey the message of the CGE’s work but asked what she would do to reach out to those rural women who cannot even read.

Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy, Ms Maziko asked for the candidate's understanding of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate if the CGE should collaborate with the public broadcaster. If yes, what type of relationship would she envisage between the Commission and public broadcaster?

Mr Mphithi stated that at the forefront of combating GBV were civil society, NGOs and NPOs who were really working with communities. He asked the candidate to elaborate on what sort of relationship she would try to establish with those organisations.

Ms Sharif indicated that one of the main tasks of the CGE was to conduct investigations and write reports with recommendations. More often, those recommendations never get implemented. She asked the candidate what she would do differently to ensure the implementation of those recommendations.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate why she believed she was the most suitable candidate for the vacancy and to demonstrate her leadership skill. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by providing an example that showed her leadership style.

Ms Marekwa stated that the Constitution stipulates that all Chapter 9 institutions must be impartial and independent. She asked why the Constitution required this.

She asked if the candidate regarded herself as an independent-minded and impartial person. If yes, she asked the candidate to demonstrate why.

Ms Masondo stated that a key strategic outcome of 2019-2024 states that CGE intends to promote and gender equality through public awareness education, investigation and litigation. She asked the candidate to assess if this had been done successfully and what innovative methods the candidate would adopt to promote public awareness of and access to the CGE.

Ms Hlonyana noted the candidate owns a company. She asked how many employees her company had so Members would get to know about her managerial experience.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had any managerial experience. If so, she asked the candidate to provide details and highlight her specific management skills.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had litigation, legislation, policy review, or advocacy experience and, if so, to provide details.

The Chairperson asked the candidate to clarify the three companies' directorships she held and if those directorships would be a conflict of interest if appointed as Commissioner.

Candidate 4: Ms Theresa Eulenda Mabusela
Given that the candidate had described herself as a God’s person, Ms Hlongo asked for her view if faith-based communities in South Africa were in solidarity with the rest of the country and were playing a role in the fight against GBV.

Ms Hlongo asked, if appointed, how the candidate planned to ask government and public entities as well as the private sector to mainstream gender to achieve equality.

The Chairperson asked how in the candidate’s view, the CGE Commissioners should relate to politicians at all levels.

Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy, Ms Masiko asked for the candidate's understanding of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner was.

Mr Mphithi commented that gender is transversal. He was concerned if the candidate’s religious beliefs would clash with the interests and rights of the LGBTQI community.

Mr Mphithi emphasised that CGE was an independent Chapter 9 institution and asked if her political history would impede the candidate’s work as a Commissioner.

Mr Mphithi remarked that there is a huge discussion around advocacy for the fight for gender-reassignment surgery for the transgender population. If the issue was brought up at the CGE, would the candidate feel wrong because of her personal belief?

Ms Phiri appreciated the candidate’s confidence and was happy to hear that the candidate kept on track with the CGE’s activities. She asked if the candidate was happy with the way that CGE operated. If not, she asked the candidate’s view on how she planned to expand the CGE’s reach to deep rural areas where there was no TV or internet connectivity.

Ms Phiri asked if the candidate could elaborate on a few international treaties and the role of the CGE in ensuring compliance with those treaties.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had managerial experience. If so, she asked the candidate to provide details and highlight her specific management skills.

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had litigation, legislation or policy review or advocacy experience. If so, she asked the candidate to provide details.

Ms Hlengwa asked the candidate why she believed she was the most suitable candidate for the position and to demonstrate her leadership skill. She asked the candidate to convince the panel by providing an example that showed her leadership style.

Ms Sharif noted the candidate’s experience in political work. As all MPs are politicians, it is well understood that politicians are driven by political ideologies aligned to specific political parties. As the CGE is an independent organisation, the principle of impartiality must be strictly adhered to. She asked how the candidate would be able to put her political ideology aside and conduct her work as a Commissioner of a Chapter 9 institution independently.

Ms Sharif noted the candidate had been an MMC for Social Development in the City of Tshwane. She was certain the candidate had to deal with many issues such as shelters, clinics, frontline responsiveness to GBV, etc. She asked the candidate to describe some of the challenges and successes she had encountered during that time.

The Chairperson added to Ms Sharif’s question and asked the candidate to distinguish between the role of politician and Commissioner. She noted the candidate’s remark ‘everyone should be staying in their own lane’ and asked her to whom the Commission should be accountable.

The Chairperson informed Ms Mabusela that the Committee had received 71 public comments about her. OUTA flagged that Ms Mabusela had several company directorships which would constitute a conflict of interest. The candidate was asked to provide clarity about that.

Candidate 5: Adv Thando Gumede
Since the purpose of Chapter 9 institutions was to strengthen constitutional democracy, Ms Masiko asked the candidate what her understanding was of the mandate, powers and functions of CGE as a Chapter 9 institution in terms of the Constitution and its enabling legislation.

Ms Masiko asked the candidate her understanding of the role of a CGE Commissioner.

Mr Mphithi asked the candidate to give her view on the CGE. In particular, he asked the candidate to identify the organisation’s challenges and her interventions to address those challenges.

Mr Mphithi said that there had been wide discussions if the CGE should utilise resources and build collaborative relationships with other stakeholders such as NGOs and public broadcaster to fulfil its mandate. He asked her view on what sort of relationships CGE should have with them.

Ms Hlongo asked, if appointed, how the candidate planned to ask government and public entities as well as the private sector to mainstream gender to achieve equality.

Ms Sharif asked for the candidate’s view on the National Strategic Plan on GBVF and to identify the successes and challenges of the plan.

Ms Sharif indicated that a critique about CGE was that its recommendations were never implemented. She asked the candidate, if appointed, what she would do to ensure implementation.

Ms Hlonyana said that the CGE was often accused of being unknown in rural areas and its roles and responsibilities not understood by communities. As a Commissioner, what would the candidate do to make inroads in those areas?

Ms Hlonyana asked if the candidate had any litigation, advocacy, legislative and policy review, and managerial experience. If so, she asked the candidate to provide details and highlight her specific management skills.

Ms Phiri asked the candidate about the role of CGE in ensuring compliance with international treaties and obligations. The candidate was asked to mention one international treaty and what she could recommend to strengthen the memorandum of understanding.

The Chairperson informed the candidate that the Committee had received 99 public comments about the candidate. All of them were positive comments.

Concluding remarks
The Chairperson announced that the Committee had come to the end of the interview process. On Tuesday, 3 October 2022, the Committee would deliberate on the interviewees. On Wednesday, 4 October, the Committee would be adopting the report. The Committee hoped the report would be adopted in the National Assembly on Thursday, 5 October.

That concluded the interview process for the vacancies for the CGE and the meeting was adjourned.