Thank you, Chairperson, and thanks to hon member Mushwana for this question. We want to say that, as a department, we do agree with the fact that there is a general belief across our communities that FET colleges deliver programmes and qualifications that are significantly inferior in quality compared to those offered by universities.
This is a perception that has developed over a long time, and we are committed to changing it. We are making several efforts and interventions to change this perception; I will mention only a few here in response to this question.
First of all, this year the Department of Higher Education and Training has already held three summits - the Higher Education Summit, FET Colleges Summit and a Skills Summit. Part of the strategy of holding these summits was to involve all stakeholders so that, amongst other things, we create cohesion between these institutions that constitute the Department of Higher Education and Training landscape.
In addition to that, what we have also put at the centre of our work, as part of improving the functionality of the colleges, is that there needs to be high articulation between FET colleges and universities so that kids who take programmes in FET colleges are also able to proceed to university if they choose to do so - something that is not systematised at the moment.
Furthermore, within the next few weeks we will be finalising the National Skills Development Strategy 3. One of the things that we have put into that strategy is that we must strengthen the relationship between the sector education and training authorities, Setas, and FET college, as well as the relationship with the employers, so that ideally, in the medium to long term, every FET college student is able to get workplace experience.
This is one of the biggest problems that we face. We think that with some of these measures we will be able to improve the attractiveness of the FET college sector. This will be in addition to the mobilising that we, as government, will continue to do to engage our communities.
Lastly, the FET Summit also focused on very critical issues around how we can revive and strengthen the FET college sector, including improving teaching and learning, efficiency, governance, financial management, as well as preparations for 2011, so that we can start next year on a sounder footing. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister, for your informative response. However, there will be a need for effective implementation for efforts made to be realised. Is there a clear plan, with time frames, linked to specific implementers for monitoring and support? We welcome both of the summits held - FET and skills - but is there a plan in place for advocacy workshops to ensure that proposals from both summits are realised? Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon member. We definitely do have a plan. For instance, already, on 8 October, I will be receiving a briefing from the steering committee that was responsible for the FET Summit on the resolutions of this summit, and how we then begin to translate them into implementable policies. In addition, we have also set ourselves the deadline of the end of October to have visited all 50 FET colleges to look at their capacities and their needs as well as programmes that are strong, as part of underlining the necessity for expanding the FET college sector as well as making sure that it begins to respond positively to our entire strategy of skills development.
Lastly, what we have decided is that we should continue with the steering committees that we have formed - the task teams - which have been working around the summit. This is because we want them to continue to help us with the process that we are planning, namely a thoroughgoing change management and capacity building in the FET colleges. Even hon Ellis is nodding approvingly at what I am saying. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, I just need to say to the hon Blade Nzimande that I never moved my head. [Laughter.] He is lying, sir. [Laughter.]
Speaker and hon Minister, at present the official position regarding the colleges for next year was stated in the document Guidelines for Operational Plans for 2011.
Is there a point of order?
Chairperson, my sincerest apologies; I beg your indulgence. I wanted to find out from you if it is parliamentary for a member to say to another member that he is lying?
He is what?
Lying. [Interjections.]
Which member said that to whom?
He can stand up and identify himself; he knows who he is. It is hon Ellis.
Hon members, please let us regulate ourselves. Let us not impugn the integrity of other members deliberately. Hon member, continue.
Mr Chairman, I did say that the hon Blade Nzimande was lying. And I ...
Hon Ellis, please take your seat.
Sit down?
Yes.
Okay, thanks. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Hon member, continue.
Thank you, Mr Chair; it is clear that you don't want hon Ellis to withdraw his words. [Laughter.] Hon Minister, the official position ...
House Chair, it is a point of order.
There is a point of order here.
House Chairperson, hon Mike Ellis is a Whip and he was part of the drafting and the adoption of the Rules of this House. I want hon Mike Ellis to withdraw what he said, that hon Nzimande is lying. It is not parliamentary. Thank you.
Hon Ellis, do the right thing, please.
Mr Chairman, I was going to withdraw until you told me to sit down. [Laughter.] However, under the circumstances, sir, I withdraw and apologise to the hon Blade Nzimande. He is certainly not a liar, sir, but sometimes he does not quite tell the truth. [Laughter.]
Hon Ellis, that is why I said you should sit down, because it was doubtful whether or not you were going to withdraw that remark. [Laughter.] Please continue.
Hon Minister, the official position regarding colleges for next year is stated in the document Guidelines for Operational Plans for 2011 issued by the department some two months ago, and it says:
Colleges plan to keep enrolment figures for 2011 at the same level as actual enrolments for 2010.
The same document states that the 2011 budget must be based on the approved budget for this year plus 4,5%. My question is: Is the severe capping of FET college numbers and budgets not a move backwards and in contrast with the enormous and growing demand for training in our country?
Chairperson, if we were not in this House I would not answer a question from the DA on FET colleges. But as a disciplined member of the House I will, because we invited them to the FET College Summit.
They did not come and they did not even apologise. Maybe that is the reason why hon James has been removed from the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training.
It is very frustrating that you only shout at us through the newspapers but run away from real engagement on the ground, because you want to opportunistically grandstand. Nevertheless, I will answer your question.
The issue is that what we were indicating then was that they should be patient with us whilst we were going through the processes that we were going through. This is because the FET colleges were asking us: How are we to plan for next year?
We said that there are processes in place; the one being the summit, and the second being the engagement with Treasury - so that after them we would then be able to know exactly what would happen. We do intend to expand. Especially, we want to identify those colleges that have additional capacity whilst we are putting in place other measures to actually address the many challenges that we face in the sector. Ngiyabonga. [Thank you.]
Thank you, House Chairperson. Dr Nzimande, I am sure you agree with me that summits are not an end in themselves, but a means to an end. I also know that you know that social cohesion cannot be achieved through summits only.
Can you then help me with this issue of articulation? By your own admission it is a problem, but could you just give me perhaps one example of how you want to articulate this whole thing of FETs to universities? Thank you.
I am sure hon Vukuza-Linda knows that I do not have to be lectured about what summits are. That is why, in my original answer, I came up with very specific things that we are going to be doing.
These summits are necessary for two reasons. First of all they enable us to get many good ideas from the stakeholders, so they are not a waste of time or just a talking shop.
Secondly, they help us to refine our implementation plan. That is why I was saying on 8 October I would be getting an implementation plan arising from the resolutions of the summits.
Okwesithathu, angithukuthele Mbazima, angithukuthele. [Uhleko.] Ngizosuke ngikubuze ukuthi ngokomthetho akufanele ngabe nilapha ningakabambi nenhlangano yenu nje. Nisibuze ngentando yeningi ningakayibambi inhlangano. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Thirdly, I am not upset, Mbazima, I am really not upset. [Laughter.] In fact, I will remind you that you are not supposed to be here because you have not even held your elective conference yet. You are telling us about democracy and yet you have not held your elective conference. [Laughter.]]
On articulation, in short, what we mean is that programmes offered at FET colleges must have a relationship with the higher education sector. Take, for example, the National Certificate (Vocational), NCV. Today if you pass it at an FET college and you want to go to university you cannot, because the NCV only has one language and universities require two languages.
There are also other programmes, what we call the Nated, the N Programmes, whose articulation with universities at the moment are based on individual negotiations between universities and particular colleges. We want to make it a systemic coherent relationship that certain programmes translate into particular certificates or diplomas in terms of the Higher Education Qualification Framework. That is what we mean in short.
Ngabe ngiyaqhubeka kodwa ngiyazi ukuthi impendulo yalo mbuzo owubuzayo uyayazi. [I will be continuing, but I know that you know the answer to your question.]
On a Point of order, House Chair.
Yes, what is the point of order?
House Chair, is it parliamentary for hon Dr Nzimande to call the hon Shilowa by his first name? Thank you.
No, that is not parliamentary.
Can the hon Minister Nzimande withdraw that?
No, it is not really a question of withdrawal. I think it is a question of ...
I am sorry, Chair. It is just that he was my comrade not so long ago, but I withdraw that. Thank you.
Hon Minister, sit down, please. I think it is simply a question of respect; it is a question of education. We are not supposed to call other members by their first names. We do not do that in the House. It is really a question of decorum.
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, the IFP does not doubt your intentions about what you wish to do about FET colleges, but what is happening on the ground does discredit your intentions.
I just want to ask the Minister a specific question: Is he aware of the goings-on at the Mthashana FET College, particularly at its learning site at KwaGqikazi campus, where the entire campus has been invaded by squatters who have refused to even obey a court order to vacate the premises?
In fact, when the MEC visited the college they said to the MEC, "MEC, you must remember that the fact that we have an ANC branch in KwaNongoma is through us, therefore we do not want to move."
On a point of order, Chair. Is the Minister prepared to assist ...
Hon member, let us take the point of order.
Chairperson, I think the hon member is out of order. The question that he is asking is a new question, and a substantive question that requires an answer.
Chair, the hon member is not the Minister. [Laughter.] It is up to the Minister to decide that.
Let us see whether or not the Minister will answer the question.
She is not even chairing the meeting.
Hon member, sit down. Take your seat, you have asked the question; let us see if the Minister will answer the question.
But I did not even finish my question due to her intervention.
Hon member, finish your question and let us hear whether or not the Minister will answer the question.
Chairperson, I would like to first call her to order.
Hon Mpontshane, are you finished with your question? [Laughter.]
No, no, Chairperson. The point I want to ...
Complete the question, please.
Chairperson, the point that I want to make is that we must not let members deliberately disturb other members whilst they are making their points through frivolous points of order. [Laughter.] You must rule on that.
That is why, hon member, I am saying, complete your question.
Hon Minister, my question is: Is the hon Minister prepared to help his counterpart in evicting those squatters who have invaded that campus? There is virtually no training taking place on the campus now.
Chairperson, hon Kubayi was right; this is a new question that I would have to prepare for and come back with the facts.
Nevertheless, I want to say that I am very much aware of what is happening at Mthashana. For instance, I am aware of the situation of the college principal who is not at work and that there is an acting principal now.
I am also aware of the situation in KwaGqikazi which, fortunately, has also been brought to my attention by iSilo samaBandla, who has invited me to go and meet with him so that we can actually address these problems.
I am in touch with the province of KwaZulu-Natal with regard to how we will deal with this. Remember that as things stand now, as much as FET colleges are going to become a national competence, before an appropriate constitutional amendment they still remain the responsibility of the provinces.
I am, therefore, working very closely with the provinces. We already have a memorandum of agreement on how the Department of Higher Education and Training is going to relate to the provinces in relation to managing problems.
Besides that, I have not sat back. I am engaging the provinces all the time, hence the need for this audit that we want to undertake by the end of October, using these task teams that I was talking about to identify each and every problem.
Ngizoya-ke nalaphaya kuleziya zindawana, ngidlule kaMntwana uShenge ngicele itiye bese ngidlula ngiyolungisa lo msebenzi, Bab'uMpontshane, ungakhathazeki. [I will also go to those areas, get to Prince Shenge's place to ask for tea and then go on to address that problem, hon Mpontshane - do not worry.]
Position regarding steps to ensure equal quality of education for learners in public school system and those in private schools
215. Mr A M Mpontshane (IFP) asked the Minister of Basic Education:
(1) Whether she is taking any steps to ensure that the quality of education for learners in the public school system is equal to that of the education which is currently provided in private schools; if so, what are the relevant details; if not,
(2) whether she is taking any steps to narrow this quality gap to ensure equal education and opportunity for all learners; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?