Chairperson, I need your assistance here.
Yes.
I don't know what the necessary protocol is. The question is whether the members who reported at the third SA Infantry Battalion, 3 SAI military base, in Kimberley to be integrated into the SA National Defence Force have been recruited as intended. If not, what are the details? I don't know what they were talking about. Could this be in 1994, 2004, 2011, 2009? I have no idea what the question intended to elicit from me. Thank you.
Mr Makhubela, that's your question. What were you intending to ask the Minister? Could you clarify; otherwise the Minister could give you a written reply maybe. Can you clarify what it is then?
In that case, I would prefer a written reply. It's fine, because I want to ask a follow-up question.
You will explain to the Minister later on?
Yes.
You will sit down and talk with her. Minister, are you comfortable with that?
Yes, it's just that by the time it was on the Order Paper, I didn't know what the member was asking and it is difficult to reply to the member's question at this point. If he could be more specific next time, then I would know what year we are talking about.
Your request has been accepted, Mr Makhubela.
We now move to Question 11, to the Minister of Police, asked by Mr Worth. Hon Minister! I am sorry, Minister, they are directing me that ... Which question, Secretary? Is it Question 7? No, but that deals with the whole question, isn't it, Minister? You are asking for clarification on both one and two, or you want to respond on both?
No, Chairperson, I am quite able to respond to the second part of the question. It is very general and its answer could be general too. It's the first part which I was unsure about - whether we're talking about the last century, Second World War or First World War.
Okay, then you can proceed with the response to the second part.
Chairperson, the second part of the question is asking whether members of the Khoisan, aboriginal and other movements which are affiliated to the SA Cape Corps have been considered to join the army.
The department was recently contacted by the SA Cape Corps Military Veterans, which has over 6 000 registered members, to discuss ways in which they could be utilised in the Defence Force. We had a very successful discussion with them and they submitted their constitution to me, and we advised them. Subsequently, they have gone ahead to do that and join the SA Military Veterans Association.
We now have a Department of Military Veterans whose job is to look after the interests of all military veterans. After looking at the constitution of this particular organisation, we believe that they qualify to be part of the association. We have had fruitful discussions with them and encouraged them to ensure that their members act within the constitution which they have provided me with so that we are able to provide them with the assistance that they require. We have since been able to deal with a number of issues that involve them and I believe one of them is the one that hon Makhubela could have been dealing with.
There is a scam in the Western Cape that seems to target people who have been in the Defence Force and who are now in desperate straits and are likely to be victims of this kind of scam. The scam says that if you pay this amount of money, we will ensure that you are reintegrated into the Defence Force. The Defence Force does not require any money or any payment to be integrated into it.
Therefore, we are using this opportunity with these members to spread the message that we will not tolerate any scam. The SA Defence Force has offices; if there is any message that we would like to convey to the citizens of South Africa, we will do so through the correct channels of government. Therefore, any scam that will result in anybody turning up at any military base will be dealt with as an invasion.
Mr Makhubela, do you have any follow-up question on number two?
No, no follow-up question. Thank you very much.
Any follow-up on number two only?
Chairperson, the question to the hon Minister is: What is the definition that is being used to qualify someone as a military veteran?
What is the definition?
Yes, what is the definition or the criteria that are used to qualify someone as a military veteran?
The definition is included in the legislation that is before Parliament right now for consideration by Members of Parliament. However, according to the draft that we have given to Members of Parliament, a veteran is any member who has been a part of nonstatutory or statutory forces and was enrolled before 1994. That is a military veteran. Thank you.
Chairperson, am I correct then by understanding that the Minister's explanation is that the draft legislation intends to use the criteria that members who were part of commando systems before 1994 do not qualify as military veterans?
Chairperson, members of the statutory and nonstatutory forces before 1994 are members of the military veterans right now if they are not in the Defence Force. Thank you.
Any other follow-up question? No. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, I would like just to rise on a matter of procedure: Is it proper for an hon member to emigrate from one province, like the Western Cape, to Mpumalanga?
You are out of order. Please take your seat.
Measures taken by government to ensure that agricultural community is safe from criminals in view of report by AgriSA
11. Mr D A Worth (DA) asked the Minister of Police:
Whether, in view of the report by Agri-SA that from 1 December 2010 to date, 60 farmers have been murdered on their farms, the government has taken any additional measures to ensure that the agricultural community is safe from criminals; if not, why not; if so, what measures? CO112E
Chairperson, I wish to point out that the report by AgriSA never stated that 60 farmers had been murdered, but rather referred to 60 criminal incidences on farms, which include robbery, stock theft, burglary, car thefts, etc. According to available information, as identified as part of the function of weekly crime analysis meetings, from 1 December 2010 to date, there were 12 murders on farms and smallholdings recorded by the SA Police Service.
However, my department takes each and every murder very seriously and government considers rural safety one of its priorities. A comprehensive rural safety strategy to enhance safety and security levels, accessibility to policing and service delivery to rural communities, was recently developed and is in the process of being rolled out to provincial levels. Already, on this scope, we have started with all the stakeholders, including AgriSA, to roll it out in Gauteng province, and we will be going to other provinces as well. A Rural Safety Priority Committee, dealing with rural safety, is functioning at a national level and has representatives from all role- players in the rural and farming communities, including the SA Police Service, farmworkers' unions, organised agriculture, which AgriSA is party to, and other government departments.
As part of our rural safety strategy we are, firstly, improving and enhancing the service delivery at local station level. We have recognised that rural police stations are often isolated and responsible for policing vast areas. To address these problems, we are not only creating more effective and efficient police stations, but also ensuring that the local police work in partnership with both rural communities and other government departments responsible for rural development.
Secondly, we are increasing and improving police visibility in rural areas and response times of police.
Thirdly, we are improving and enhancing relationships between the police, farming communities, stakeholders and extended rural communities. This includes the roll-out and implementation of sector policing in the rural environment. Equally, we are seeking to foster and establish partnerships with rural communities.
Lastly, we are improving safety awareness in rural areas and educating rural communities on safety and security matters. Infrastructural development within the rural environment is essential to ensure equal accessibility to services and service delivery. Our rural safety plan will also support and boost rural development through the implementation of a sustainable safety plan. In supporting both our crime investigations and our crime prevention strategy, we are also improving our crime intelligence and analysis in these areas.
Our rural safety plan also needs to address vulnerable sectors of rural communities including women, children, the elderly and people with disabilities. As this will be working with the family protection unit, our aim is to ensure our rural safety strategy not only responds to the immediate safety and security needs of the rural community, but also ensures an effective and sustainable policing approach to such communities and areas. We would like to encourage all stakeholders in rural safety to work together in a co-ordinated and integrated manner and engage at all levels in our planning and implementation of the strategy. Thank you.
Chairperson, of course, the number is 60 farm murders; I got that from AgriSA. However, with regard to AgriSA, particularly Agri Free State, the police are still in charge of the border between Lesotho and the Free State and several incidents of theft and also farm murders have taken place along the border. The police are still in control of the border until later on when the Defence Force will then take over. An agreement was signed between Agri Free State and the police. In the Minister's view, has that agreement been complied with? Thank you.
Can you repeat your last question, hon member.
Sorry, Chair, I would like to know from the Minister whether the agreement between Agri Free State and the police with regard to protection along the Lesotho-Free State border has been complied with.
Well, I'm not sure ... Perhaps let me start at the beginning because, as a parting shot, the hon member responded to what I said earlier on. I still insist on what I've said about the statistics, and what he says he got from AgriSA is incorrect. That also takes on board the interaction with AgriSA because, as I said, when it comes to rural safety, all the stakeholders work with the police in so far as this is concerned. I would have to check the follow-up question. It's related to, but not really part of, the question which was raised initially.
Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe Nyambose Mntwana weNkosi, ukulandela lo mbuzo obuziwe ukuthi, uma nixhumana ne-AgriSA mayelana nezokuphepha nokubulawa kwabalimi, niyakuthinta yini ukuhlukumezeka, ukuphathwa kabi, kanye nokuphepha kwabasebenzi basemapulazini. Uma ningakuthinti, uMnyango wakho wenzani mayelana nokuphepha kwabasebenzi basemapulazini? Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr D D GAMEDE: Thank you Chairperson, hon Minister Nyambose His Majesty's subject, with regard to the question that was asked, when meeting with AgriSA, in connection with the safety and the killing of farmers, do you talk about the harassment and the ill-treatment as well as the safety of farm workers? And if you are not talking about that, what is your department doing about the safety of farm workers? Thank you.]
Chairperson, bab' uMagadlela [Mr Magadlela], the situation of rural safety is not a sectarian one. The question is spot-on, because, in these areas, if you talk of farms, firstly, the strategy in the plan deals with the rural areas, holistically. In those rural areas you have also villages where people stay; you have areas which are farms and so on. Therefore, it's not only directed to farmers, because we also have farm workers and farm dwellers. These matters are raised sharply because we interact with a variety of organisations which include trade union organisations working with rural communities. The Food and Allied Workers Union, Fawu, for instance, is part of this very initiative.
Therefore, they have been very vocal in raising these matters. But also, the police, through their statistics, have been able to point out some of the areas where farm workers' or farm dwellers' rights have been violated. So, it is not a one-way street; you have a problem of crime which affects everybody. We also have representatives from both sides who are able to bring to the fore some of their specific experiences. Thank you.
Chairperson, how soon does the Minister envisage the extension of the patrollers programme to rural areas?
Hon Chair, if there are members who hail from rural areas in this House, we would urge them to join hands because, as I said, already organisations in those areas are working together with the police to ensure that, either through patrolling or general safety, visibility is already working. We would really like, especially from the point of view of public representatives, to ensure that, indeed, things are happening there as we planned and people participate. This is not a matter of those organisations representing constituencies in the rural areas. It's the responsibility of all of those who might hail from rural areas to ensure that we become part of this war against crime, because of crime.
All the stakeholders have come to understand and agree with our perspective that if you walk into a farm or a village house and you break into that house or kill somebody - that is crime; whether you do it as a farmer, or a farm worker, or a farm dweller, or anybody it's a crime. All of us need to be part of this movement in the fight against crime. I think that hon members will help a lot in ensuring that we reach our objectives in ensuring that these areas, which have been victims of crime over the past years, are really protected. Thank you.
Chairperson, I wish to thank the Minister for his responses that indicate the improvement on crime intelligence and the effectiveness of the management of the stations as well. My follow-up question relates to the stock theft unit, which deals with one of the ravaging crimes within the rural environment, particularly with the provinces that are on the border with our neighbouring countries. Is the stock theft unit also considered critically within this rural safety plan that the department will be rolling out? Thank you.
Hon Chair, hon member, yes, as you are aware, we recommissioned this unit, which is rural safety, and within it it has a stock theft division. Again, people who come from big cities bank with commercial banks. From the rural communities' point of view, stock becomes the bank of those who stay in those areas and they become very important. Therefore, if there is stock theft, it's like robbery. It is exactly like a bank robbery. So, we take it as seriously as that. The issue of those areas bordering some of our neighbours, in so far as stock theft is concerned, is one point of concern, as the member said.
But also, stock theft happens internally where people, gangs and syndicates move from one area or one province to another on this issue of stock theft. Statistics also back the work that is being done by the police in so far as this is concerned, because it is a concerning crime in South Africa today. If you look at last year's statistics, this is one area where there has been an increase. Since then, we have been working very hard to ensure that we really make a dent in ensuring that they will reverse what seems to be an increase in crime in this particular area. Thank you.
Details relating to plans to deal with rising number of awaiting-trial detainees and level of interaction between department and Department of Justice and Constitutional Development
12. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Correctional Services:
Whether her department has established any plans to deal with the rising number of awaiting-trial detainees in correctional centres across the country; if not, (a) why not and (b) what challenges are currently being experienced with regard to awaiting-trial detainees; if so, (i) what are the relevant details and (ii) what is the level of interaction between her department and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in this regard?