Hon Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
1) notes the public outcry over the Protection of State Information Bill to be voted on by the National Assembly today;
2) recognises that in the absence of a public interest defence clause, the Bill will be subject to challenges on constitutional grounds; 3) further recognises the negative impact of the proposed legislation;
4) upholds the importance of section 16 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, which entrenches the freedom of expression; and
5) postpones orders One and Two on the Order Paper in terms of Rule 97(c) of the Rules of the National Assembly.
Mr Speaker, the IFP supports the proposal by the DA. As far as we are concerned, there is a public outcry against this Bill and if the ANC has any sensitivity for the Constitution and for democracy, it will listen to the churches and the media ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, you are now making a speech. Order, hon members!
Under the circumstances, to end my speech, we think that in terms of Rule 97(c) this matter should be postponed. [Applause.]
Speaker, on behalf of Cope, we also want to give our full support for the motion and we call for a postponement on this decision. [Applause.]
Hon speaker, on behalf of the ACDP, we would like to support the motion. [Applause.]
Speaker, although they will never stop me, on behalf of the ID, we would like to support that motion. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Is the hon member dressed in accordance with the decorum of the House? Is it also parliamentary for the hon member to have his face hidden whilst he is seated in the House?
Hon speaker, you have put the motion and I would like to inform you that the FF Plus supports the other opposition parties and ask that this matter be removed from the Order Paper. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the ANC objects, but I think it would be a great disservice to the people of South Africa if we did not tell them the truth about this matter in two minutes. [Interjections.]
Hon member, do not make a long speech, please!
Point of order, Speaker!
Hon member, what is out of order?
Hon speaker, on a point of order: Could we just ascertain ... [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, we object to the motion, but we think this matter is of great national interest. We need to ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, we have noted your objection. Hon member, what is your point of order? [Applause.]
I hope that applause is for me. Hon Speaker, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party has cleared it up. I wanted to know what he was objecting to, because he started off by saying that he was objecting. [Interjections.]
Hon members, I would really like to appeal to you to behave in accordance with the agreed decorum and respect of the House.
Question put: That the motion moved in terms of Rule 97(c) for the postponement of Orders 1 and 2 be agreed to.
Speaker, I want to say that the ayes have it. [Applause.]
Having listened carefully, I think the noes have it. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, on a point of order: Aren't you supposed to put the one and then the other? I didn't hear any noes whatsoever.
For the benefit of those who didn't hear, I'll repeat myself.
Question put again: That the motion moved in terms of Rule 97(c) for the postponement of Orders 1 and 2 be agreed to.
I think the noes have it.
Hon Speaker, on a point of order: Could you please repeat the question? I think there is a bit of uncertainty, sir. If I am not mistaken, you are putting the motion presented by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, but there was a different motion proposed by the DA. I need clarity as to what exactly we are voting for.
Hon member, I did indicate what the motion before the House is, but for your benefit and for the benefit of those who have not been listening, I will repeat it.
Mr Speaker, I just want to draw your attention to the fact that those members who are against the Bill are wearing black, and we appreciate the fact that many of the ANC and yourself are also black. [Interjections.]
Thank you, hon member, I am sure you can indicate that to them, sir. But are you not dressed in black, too?
Question put again: That the motion moved in terms of Rule 97(c) for the postponement of Orders 1 and 2 be agreed to.
Division demanded.
The House divided:
Ayes - 107: Adams, L H; Alberts, A D; Balindlela, Z B N; Bhoola, R B; Bosman, L L; Cebekhulu, R N; Coetzee, T W; De Freitas, M S F; Diemu, B C; Dikobo, K J; Dreyer, A M; Du Toit, N D; Dudley, C; Duncan, P C; Farrow, S B; Figlan, A M; Gaehler, L B; Gcume, N P; George, D T; George, M E; Greyling, L W; Groenewald, P J; Harris, T D; Hill-Lewis, G G; Holomisa, B H; Hoosen, M H; James, W J; Kalyan, S V; Kganare, D A; Kganyago, N M; Kilian, J D; Kloppers-Lourens, J C; Kohler-Barnard, D; Koornhof, N J J v R; Kopane, S P; Kotsi, C M P; Krumbock, G R; Lamoela, H; Lebenya-Ntanzi, S P; Lee, T D; Lekota, M G P; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Lucas, E J; Makhuba, H N; Marais, E J; Marais, S J F; Mashiane, L M; Max, L; Maynier, D H; Mazibuko, L D; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mc lntosh, G B D; Meshoe, K R J; Michael, N W A; Mncwango, M A; Mnguni, P B; Mnqasela, M; More, E; Morgan, G R; Motau, S C; Mphahlele, L M; Msimang, C T; Mubu, K S; Mulder, P W A; Mulder, C P; Ndlovu, V B; Ndude, H N; Njobe, M A A; Ntshiqela, P; Ollis, I M; Paulse, S; Pretorius, P J C; Rabie, P J; Ramatlakane, L; Robinson, D; Ross, D; Schafer, D A; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Skosana, J J; Smalle, J; Smiles, D C; Smith, P F; Smuts, M; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A C; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D; Swart, S N; Swart, M; Swathe, M M; Trollip, R A P; Van Dalen, E; Van den Berg, N J; Van der Linde, J J; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, S M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Waters, M; Watson, A; Wenger, M; Zondi, K M.
Noes - 221: Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Baloyi, M R; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bikani, F C; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T; Booi, M S; Boshigo, D F; Botha, Y R; Burgess, C V; Carrim, Y l; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Zuma, N C; Dlodlo, A; Dlulane, B N; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Duma, N M; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E I; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C; Fubbs, J L; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godongwana, E; Gololo, C L; Gona, M F; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Hajaig, F; Holomisa, S P; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekane, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, F E; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredericks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Line, H; Lishivha, T E; Luyenge, Z; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabuza, M C; Madlala, N M; Madlopha, C Q; Mafolo, M V; Magagula, V V; Magama, H T; Magau, K R; Magubane, E; Magwanishe, G; Makasi, X C; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, S P; Malale, M l; Malgas, H H; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Manamela, K B; Manana, M C; Mandela, Z M D; Manganye, J; Mangena, M S; Martins, B A D; Mashatile, P; Mashigo, R M; Mashishi, A C; Masilo, J M; Masutha, T M; Mathebe, P M; Mathebe, D H; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Maziya, M; Mbili, M E; Mdakane, M R; Mfeketo, N C; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mnisi, N A; Mocumi, P A; Mohale, M C; Mohorosi, M; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Moloto, K A; Moni, C M; Morutoa, M R; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motlanthe, K P; Motsepe, R M; Motshekga, M A; Motshekga, M S; Mthethwa, E M; Mthethwa, E N; Mufamadi, T A; Mushwana, F F; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndabeni, S T; Ndebele, J S; Ndlanzi, A Z; Nel, A C; Nelson, W J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, W; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J; Nkwinti, G E; November, N T; Ntuli, Z C; Ntuli, B M; Nxesi, T W; Nxumalo, M D; Nyalungu, R E; Nyanda, S; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, G G; Oliphant, M N; Padayachie, R L; Pandor, G N M; Peters, E D; Petersen-Maduna, P; Phaahia, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilusa- Mosoane, M E; Pule, D D; Radebe, G S; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Saal, G; Schneemann, G D; Segale-Diswai, M J; Selau, G J; September, C C; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibiya, D; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, S C N; Sizani, P S; Smith, V G; Snell, G T; Sogoni, E M; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Suka, L; Sulliman, E M; Surty, M E; Thabethe, E; Thibedi, J D; Thobejane, S G; Tinto, B; Tlake, M F; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Tsotetsi, D R; Turok, B; Twala, N M; Van der Merwe, S C; van Rooyen, D D; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Van Wyk, A; Williams, A J; Williams-De Bruyn, S T; Xaba, P P; Ximbi, D L; Xingwana, L M; Yengeni, L E; Zikalala, C N Z; Zulu, B Z.
ABSTAIN - 2: Borman, G M; Ntapane, S Z.
Question not agreed to.
Motion accordingly negatived.
Mr Speaker, on a point of procedure and clarity, I have been advised reliably that people of the public have been kept out of the gallery on the pretext that that gallery is full. From where I sit, it would appear that there are many seats available. [Interjections.] Could you please follow up on that?
Thank you. The Serjeant-at-Arms will attend to the matter.