Hon Speaker, before I answer the question, I would just like to say a word on the importance of this day. One hundred years ago, on this day, the most notorious Native Land Act of 1913, passed by the then all-white Parliament of South Africa, came into operation. This Act was a culmination of the most gross injustice against the indigenous people of our land. It is an injustice that is the root cause of the poverty and inequalities that deface our country even to this day. I trust that every party represented in this House will add its voice to the condemnation of this and unreservedly commit itself to joining hands with us in undoing this crime against our people. Thank you for allowing me to say these words. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I now turn to Question 7. At this time of the 50th anniversary of the birth of the Organisation of African Unity/African Union, let me say that we regard the African Agenda as the cornerstone of our country's foreign policy. The focus of our African Agenda has been particularly on five areas: peace and security; participating in continental regional organisations; contributing to the fight against the underdevelopment of our continent; promoting democracy throughout Africa; and defending the interests of Africa in global affairs.
As part of the continent, we are enjoined to promote all that is good about our continent, and use the natural and human resource strengths of Africa to build a better Africa which is peaceful, democratic, united and prosperous.
At the World Economic Forum in Cape Town we expressed our view of the kind of Africa we aspire to being in the next 50 years. We are building an Africa that is united, integrated and free from the scourge of poverty; an Africa that has conducive conditions for trade and investment; an Africa that will enable the creation of sustainable and decent jobs for our people, particularly the youth; an Africa that is industrialised and is aligned with strategic like-minded partners; and an Africa that can be competitive in the global market.
These aspirational intentions are clearly enshrined in Pan-Africanism and the African Renaissance. The chairperson of the AU Commission recently engaged with all sectors of our society across the continent in order to put together the vision of citizens of Africa of the type of continent we would like to see by the time the African Union, AU, celebrates its 100th anniversary. This view of citizens on the ground is captured in the AU vision for 2063.
The AU has created instruments to enable the achievement of these objectives, and South Africa participates fully in the work of these institutions. The creation of the continental African Peace and Security Architecture, the New Partnership for Africa's Development and the African Peer Review Mechanism are just some of the mechanisms that are taking us forward in promoting the African Agenda, especially in addressing Africa's security and economic challenges.
On building a prosperous Africa, South Africa advocates the integration of Africa's economies and increased intra-Africa trade as part of promoting an African free trade area.
Taking advantage of the fact that some of the world's fastest growing countries are African countries, we also continue to play a role in promoting infrastructure development to unlock intra-African trade. Currently South Africa chairs the AU Nepad Presidential Infrastructure Champion Initiative and also champions and supports the overarching AU Programme for Infrastructure Development in Africa. Our task is to champion the North-South Corridor, from Cape to Cairo, to achieve the dream of Kwame Nkrumah of infrastructure that connects the continent.
Pan-Africanism and the African Renaissance also inform our engagement with the world. Thus, at the G20, Brics, and World Economic Forum, and in bilateral relations, we continue to promote Africa and positions that will take its development forward. It is for this reason that the fifth Brics Summit in Durban had an African Retreat component to enable us as Africans to engage the Brics countries on matters of importance to the continent.
Most importantly, we need to promote Pan-Africanism as a way of life that informs our identity as Africans. This means we should look beyond economic development to our cultural and social identity and our frame of mind. Let us recall the lines of the African Union anthem. It says:
Let us all unite and celebrate together The victories won for our liberation Let us dedicate ourselves to rise together To defend our liberty and unity
O Sons and Daughters of Africa Flesh of the Sun and Flesh of the Sky Let us make Africa the Tree of Life
Let us all unite and sing together To uphold the bonds that frame our destiny Let us dedicate ourselves to fight together For lasting peace and justice on earth
Let us all unite and toil together To give the best we have to Africa The cradle of mankind and fount of culture Our pride and hope at break of dawn.
I am sure if we all learnt and sang the continental anthem, it would do our continent good, because it tells the story of who we are and what we need to do together. I am saying this because not many of us at the southern tip of Africa sing this song, the continental anthem of the AU. It says a lot. It says who we are, how we define ourselves and what our task as citizens of the continent is. [Applause.]
When we sing the African Union anthem, we need to do so fully appreciating our being part of an independent Africa, and we need to work harder to achieve economic independence for Africa as a whole. This means promoting African unity and co-operation amongst the African nations, for we have one future. Then we will have achieved our freedom as the African people, from Cape to Cairo, and from Morocco to Madagascar. To achieve these goals, we fully support the African Union and play our part in building the Africa envisaged on the formation of the Organisation of African Unity. I thank you. [Applause.]
Nxamalala, Msholozi. [Clan names.]
I would like to ask the President to share with us further how the government intends mobilising the Brics partnership to support the successful implementation of the African Agenda, taking into account the legacy built in the past 50 years and the intention to mould Vision 2063 for Africa. Nxamalala, njengoba bese ushilo empendulweni yakho ukuthi njengabaholi base- Africa niye nahlangana eThekwini eNgqungqutheleni ye-Brics, yilokho osekungithunuka kakhulu manje ngicela sike sizwe kuwe ukuthi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Nxamalala, as you have already mentioned in your response that as African leaders you came together in Durban for the Brics Summit, that is what is prompting me to ask this now. We would like to find out ...]
... how can the Brics partnership help in the successful implementation of the African Agenda? I ask this because we as South Africans in particular need to appreciate the visionary prowess of the ANC government if one considers the history of the ANC in contributing to the founding of the OAU itself in 1963, and the role it is expected that this very ANC government will play in the formulation of Vision 2063 for Africa. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, certainly South Africans contributed through the ANC to the formation of the OAU. Those who are old enough will remember that there were some organisations that were talking about the challenges of the continent, one of them being the Pan-African Freedom Movement of East and Central Africa, Pafmeca, which, with the participation of South Africa and other countries in the region here, changed its name to the Pan-African Freedom Movement for Eastern, Central and Southern Africa, Pafmecsa. It was people belonging to a number of organisations that met to discuss the matter. We were there and we made a contribution. That, of course, would have been informed by the actual founders of the ANC, particularly in the person of Dr Pixley Ka Seme, who wrote an historic essay about the whole of Africa's future, including its economic future and its unity. To us as South Africans it is not a new thing that we are participating in efforts to ensure that Africa deals with its challenges. I am sure that those who have read that essay will realise that from the onset our views about Africa were very clear, and therefore that the Pan-Africanism that is being talked about today was part of it.
That is why in the relations that we form today, whether we are in the G20 or Brics or Ibsa, or whatever formation, uppermost in our minds is how these relationships will enhance our being, not just as a country but as a continent, and how these will contribute to the economic development of our continent.
Whenever we take part in these forums, we raise the issue of Africa and, in addition, our own bilateral issues. Therefore, when we became part of Brics, and when we began to look at Africa, we were very clear that our membership of Brics had to benefit the continent. When we were to host Brics in South Africa, to us this was an important occasion to actualise that thinking, particularly because historically Africa has been bypassed by many developments and disadvantaged by many. We have a history that I think we are all aware of, but we have reached a point where we feel that we must be part of reshaping the global economic landscape, whether politically or economically. To actualise that, we felt it was important that, as the Brics was meeting in South Africa, we had to involve African countries.
That is why, on the sidelines of Brics, we introduced the African Brics Retreat. Therefore, we specifically invited key leaders - in terms of what they did - on the continent. For example, we invited the chairperson of the AU Commission and the chairpersons of regional economies on the continent, as well as the head of Nepad, plus heads of state that we believed would make a contribution to that interaction. Indeed, they welcomed this enthusiastically, and it took place here. We had a very successful meeting with Brics leaders and African leaders.
For the first time the African leaders prepared a presentation to Brics - on behalf of the continent, and not on behalf of individual countries - and made a formidable case, which was responded to very positively by Brics. In fact, there are many, many processes that are going on between Brics and African countries to implement those agreements. When some of the Brics countries went back, they communicated that they were looking at the resolutions and how they were going to be implemented in this new partnership.
We believe that that Brics interaction was absolutely crucial. For example, as we speak, some of the Brics countries who are part of the G20 have said that whenever they host the G20 they will also invite key African leaders to come and participate in those kinds of interactions. I think that indicates what we are talking about when we say we have needed to work together.
But what has been important in enabling us to succeed in this is the fact that African countries have moved away from seeing themselves as individual countries in many respects. They have accepted the fact that they have to work together as a continent. They have specific structures that they work with, but what has been important has been the realisation that without our working together in the way that I was describing here, so that there is trade within and among African countries, we cannot succeed in being a continent that can stand on its own.
This is no longer a debate. There has been agreement that we need to work together, and the process of integrating the economic regions has started. Three of these have come together, with a huge population that is almost half of the continent, and the work to try to bring together the African countries continues.
We have also realised that the borders that were created by colonialists in the form in which they are are not helping. The matter of how we ease border control has been discussed and agreed upon. Part of the programme - the massive infrastructure programme - addresses that issue very seriously.
I think the following applies when we speak for the first time as the African continent to other countries or partners. For example, we were in Japan just a few weeks ago. We speak about ourselves and our infrastructure, and ask them to come and participate here; in other words, to do business with us. That tells the story that Vision 2063 is a vision that you as a unit are going to be working on from now on, as a continent that understands that our interests cannot be separated. We have to work together to ensure that we secure the continent and to stand independent. We are able to develop. We are able to make Africa a continent that will take its place among other continents, as a continent that can offer something. That is what we are trying to do, and I think we are making good progress. Thank you. [Applause.]
Let me just remind speakers that the time allowed for a supplementary question is one minute, and the Presiding Officer has the discretion regarding the length of time allowed to reply. I will be very strict, Mr President.
Hon Speaker, I would like to know if His Excellency, the President, and the government are aware of the existence and work of the African Diaspora Forum, which is currently confronting the manifestations of xenophobia. Will the government assist this forum in any way possible in its efforts to end xenophobia and bring peace and harmony among the African people?
Your Excellency, what all of us should be concerned about with xenophobia, regardless of the rationale behind it, is that the brutality thereof is no doubt sowing the seeds of intense resentment against South Africans in some African countries for generations to come. If we do not put a halt to this violation of human rights, nature's great law of compensation is bound to bring the brutish chickens of xenophobia home to roost. Then the lives of South Africans, their properties and investments in those affected African countries will be at serious risk. Faced with a legitimate need, I ask respectfully if the President would be willing to move a Deputy Minister horizontally to be fully responsible for this project, as one other critical component of the National Development Plan? I am saying "respectfully", Your Excellency, because I don't want to dictate. [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, yes, I think we are all aware of this particular organisation, but there are many that are at work in this regard, not just one or two.
There is a continental approach to this issue of the diaspora and the interaction with the diaspora. In fact, as one of the points that strengthen that kind of activity is the fact that the West Indies, as a collective of islands, have been given some status at the AU informally, and are to be regarded as a region that really constitutes a broader kind of diaspora outside, who are in charge of governments, etc. So we are working with them. In fact, in every other AU summit they participate as observers. At times they are given the platform to speak. So that issue is an issue that we are all talking about. You will also recall that we had a summit not long ago of the diaspora together with Africa to discuss precisely those kinds of issues. That is broadly speaking.
With regard to the specific issues that you are raising in regard to South Africa, I think the issue of xenophobia is one that everybody is very much aware of. Everybody is on the alert in that regard and it cannot be something that could get out of hand. If you look at the number of African foreigners in South Africa and make a comparison, you will see that the number is huge, and they are active in many respects.
However, the incidents that have tended to point to this issue are not that many. In fact, I think that at times there's a bit of an exaggeration, where people say that xenophobia is a big problem in South Africa. I think that is a bit of an exaggeration, although I am not saying it's not there, because, at times when incidents occur, it is seen, particularly when people react.
Foreigners are busy everywhere, in every corner of this country, and they are employed, and that feeling is not all that widespread. If you take the number of the foreigners that are in South Africa, you would say that the problem is huge.
There have been instances that people have interpreted as xenophobia. But South Africans have not been one-sided on the issue. Even with the bigger incidents that took place a few years ago, many South Africans protected the foreigners. I had an opportunity to meet with them around Pretoria and on the East Rand. These South Africans were very clear, some of them saying, "Please don't touch the foreigners." I think even with the incident that happened near Johannesburg there was a clear division. So you can't say that xenophobia is such a huge problem in South Africa, although we certainly need to look at it very carefully because of the of the foreigners that there are in South Africa.
I am sure that as a government we are doing everything we can to ensure that this issue is never a problem that is allowed to grow. We must make South Africans understand this, and we have been doing so. I think we should all play that part in order to ensure that xenophobia in our country is not something that we allow. I think all of us from all political parties should speak with one voice and say that we as South Africans are a warm people, and we receive people so that they can be with us. At some point they received us, too, when we were in difficulties. We must therefore find a way to work together, particularly in view of what I was saying about the continent of Africa and the countries on the continent. It is vitally important for us to bear in mind that the issue of xenophobia must never be allowed to get out of hand. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, let me first lend my voice and that of my political party, the DA, to that of the hon President and those of all South Africans who condemn the passage and the enactment of the 1913 Native Land Act 100 years ago. We condemn, along with this Act, the raft of economic exclusion legislation which was designed to exclude black South Africans of many hues from equal economic participation in our country and which condemned them to the status of second-class citizens in their own home. For our part, we are committed to redress, reconciliation, delivery and diversity, and our concerted effort is to reverse the legacy of racial inequality and economic exclusion on the basis of race.
If I may turn to the hon President's reply, Mr Speaker, one of the most effective ways to advance the African Agenda is through economic growth and job creation, but South Africa is being overtaken by its peers, like Kenya and Nigeria, as an entry point to the continental market despite our position as the continent's biggest economy. Given the fact that major investors like Fastjet and IBM are now moving their headquarters elsewhere on the continent, it's clear that, far from leading the African Agenda, we are actually lagging behind it. Mr Speaker, does the President not agree that in order to reverse this trend and move our economy more towards being in step with our African peers, his government must do more to reform the South African economy by cutting red tape, reducing high communication costs, and making our labour markets more flexible? I thank you.
Hon Speaker, I certainly appreciate the statement about the Native Land Act of 1913 that the Opposition have made. It is making a very good point and I think it's vitally important, because the ills of today emanated in the main from that Act. It is highly appreciated that we can speak with one voice on a matter that is a common problem to all of us. I would like to underline that.
With regard to the growth of the economy, I think there are many factors that lead to how economies move, how organised some economies are, compared to others, and what makes investors move to one area or the other.
I wouldn't say the South African economy has problems that mean people do not take part in it. I think investment is coming into South Africa, but it is no longer, as it was in history, concentrating on South Africa only. It is now seeing other countries as well. But that cannot be seen as a negative thing for the economy. It must be seen in the context that I sketched when I was describing Africa, namely that we want the entire continent of Africa to grow economically.
I don't think that we should have a problem with it if investors begin to spread their investment on the continent. In fact, that could be partly because of what I have just explained, namely that we are speaking with one voice and therefore exposing all the countries and all the possibilities that exist on the continent, and we are saying, here are the things that need to be looked at. Reports have been saying that a number of fast growing countries are in Africa. It means that there is investment. It takes into account the fact that the continent's efforts, what it is doing, are vitally important.
Of course, you could perhaps stand up and utter criticism regarding specific issues, but that is debatable. What would be the reason for doing that, having made the point that it is, in fact, a welcome development that investors are spreading out on the continent - including, by the way, investors from South Africa. The investors from South Africa are getting into the continent, which never happened before. That is good news, because it means we are going to be able to address the problems that face Africa.
The very fact that we are saying there are too many foreigners here is because South Africa has been the only growth point and therefore more attractive to people coming here, and it is also because there have been problems in their countries. Once investments go to every other country, even that trend is going to be arrested, because they will then have opportunities in their own countries.
So I don't think investment going to other countries is a big deal. I think we should appreciate that. We should applaud it. We should say, "Thank God, Africa as a whole is today being seen as a destination for investment and not just South Africa." That is how I would look at it.
As to other issues that people are looking at, I think they are matters we could debate, such as whether South Africa's kind of regulations play a role. Again, there are various sides to the matter. Why? What is happening to the countries where they are making investments? Are those investments to the benefit of those countries? Are there regulations to ensure that investment benefits the local people? I think that is a different area that we could debate.
I think for now we should be saying that it is wonderful. Many investors in the world that we've talked to see South Africa as the gateway to Africa. Therefore, we agree that if we want to operate properly in Africa, South Africa has more developed infrastructure with which to do so. Many of them are putting their headquarters in South Africa in order to go to Africa. It's not a problem. I say it's not a negative trend. It is an important trend for the continent. That's how I view it. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Establishment of new military rapid reaction force
8. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) What were the reasons for establishing a new military rapid reaction force, the African Capacity for Immediate Response to Crises (ACIRC), as proposed by him and agreed to by the African Union (AU) during its summit in May 2013, when the AU has already agreed to have an African Standby Force;
(2) whether the establishment of the planned military rapid reaction force will advance the commencement date of operations of the planned African Standby Force; if not, why not; if so, (a) by what date is it anticipated to start operations and (b) what are the further relevant details;
(3) whether Western countries will be requested to assist with training, equipment and financial contributions to the work of the ACIRC? NO1701E
Hon Speaker, the African Capacity for Immediate Response to Crises was tabled for consideration by the African Union Commission at the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the African Union held in Addis Ababa last month.
The mechanism is viewed as necessary to correct the constant shortcomings of Africa in responding to crises as rapidly as warranted by situations such as that in Mali. This inability to respond adequately and urgently undermines Africa's principles, decisions and statutes, like the Lom Declaration on Unconstitutional Changes of Government.
The future and role of this immediate mechanism will be determined as and when the African Standby Force's rapid deployment capacity has been operationalised. There is no fixed date as yet. The AU ministers of defence are working on the matter.
The general view of the AU member states is that this should be an African initiative. However, that matter is still being discussed by the AU and specific recommendations will be tabled at the right time. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Speaker, I thank the hon President for his reply. The ACDP is concerned that a decision has been made to establish what appears to be a duplicate structure, a parallel structure, which might also fail to fulfil its mandate, just like the rapid deployment capability of the African Standby Force did. We wonder whether the causes of the failure of the African Standby Force have been sufficiently addressed in order to ensure that they are not repeated.
We are also concerned that the AU budget will, as has been reported, not be used to fund the deployment of this rapid reaction force, but that, instead, individual countries supplying troops and equipment will be responsible for paying for the deployment.
What I want to know from the hon President is how many countries have made a commitment to supply troops and equipment whenever there is a need, because we know that many regions in our countries are poor and they will not be able to afford the heavy price tag of such deployments.
I also want to know what the hon President intends doing to ensure that the deployment of this military rapid reaction force does not become a financial burden to the South African taxpayers. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, the discussions that have been taking place in the AU for a number of years now have been on the need to establish a standby force. I think that at some point a decision was taken that we should start with the regions. So, many regions have established their standby forces. I think they are at the level of a brigade. Even the SADC has been working on that. This follows on a need. As you know, Africa has these challenges, and we need to have a standby force. This has been so for a number of years.
The reality is that problems that have needed military intervention have been occurring on the continent while this debate has been going on. However, in the meantime there has been the establishment of these regional standby forces as a process, a process that has in a sense been developing at a particular level. African countries are saying that, while we have been discussing this matter and trying to find ways and means of dealing with it, there have been problems out there. As you know, the recent ones have been in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mali, the Central African Republic, and so on. While this matter has been debated and discussed, the Somalia issue has been a problem for many years. So, whatever discussion we were having about the African Standby Force, it was not helping to deal with the concrete reality of where the challenges were.
Being aware of all this and that the process was going on, just before the last summit started the chiefs of the army, as well as the ministers of defence, met in Addis Ababa as part of the preparation to present a paper that was supposed to be adopted during the summit. They felt, however, that that paper was not good enough and they had to go back and work on it. This was a few weeks before the summit. This meant that the summit was not going to be able to address this issue and take a decision.
The problem is what you do in the meantime, because the problems are there. In fact, as we arrived in Addis Ababa, Niger, in addition to Mali, was attacked - its most important and sensitive installation! And we are still discussing the matter - we are not taking a decision. That is the reality. I'm leaving aside the other reasons why these countries are being destabilised in the manner in which they have been destabilised. The question that confronted the African Union was: What do we do? Whilst we were sitting there, we couldn't take a decision, for example, to send a standby force to Niger. We couldn't. Much as we would theoretically have wanted to do so, we couldn't.
When Mali was being attacked, the Economic Community of West African States, Ecowas, of which Mali is a member, met 10 times trying to discuss what to do, precisely because there is no capacity of this nature, the rapid response. They were not able to do anything. In 10 meetings they couldn't produce a single soldier to go and deal with the situation. That's the reality. That situation continued until the former colonial country, France, came in to save the government.
A question that African leaders were asking themselves was this: Until when will we stand and look on while Africa is being destabilised? Some of the leaders were saying that we were attacked through the process of the colonisation of Africa all over, bit by bit, and were colonised. We could be faced with the same thing to undermine Africa now. Should we stand still until we all disappear? These were the questions that leaders were faced with. Leaders then said that whilst people were working on the ideal kind of standby force for Africa, we should have something that can deal with this.
I must also mention the following point. The resources of the continent so far are being paid for by other people's taxpayers - those of Europe - and not by Africans. They have a nice name that they are called by, but I can't remember the name. It's called friends something. They give donations to the continent. They put conditions on their giving of the money. If you want to use their money, they ask what it is to be used for. If they don't like what you are using it for, they say they are sorry, they cannot help there. Therefore, Africa remains helpless. In fact, Libya is a case in point. Part of the reason the AU could not go there was the fact that the donor said it couldn't use its money there. They wanted to give themselves time to bomb Libya out of existence.
The question that has been asked by the leaders is: Until when will this be? Also, we cannot depend on other people's money. Therefore, when the call was made by the AU Commission, a number of countries said that we needed something so that we could defend ourselves and we needed volunteers. Many countries volunteered and said that they were volunteering. In other words, these countries were not going to depend on the donor money. If there was a problem they would be able to move swiftly and finance their actions. If we don't do so ourselves, it will be financed by the taxpayers from across the seas and they will control us forever. Do we want to continue being controlled by other people, or do we want to be independent and stand on our own?
These are countries that said - although not everybody - that we can participate as a joint force in order to move away from the debate that has been going on for years and to deal with the concrete issue of what we can do. So there are a number of countries that have said that they are ready to come together and put their efforts together, so that whenever there is a problem on this continent we can move.
This is partly because there is a suspicion that there is an agenda of using soldiers in many ways. In the past coups d'tat used to be conducted by soldiers. The African Union took the position that this was not allowed - unconstitutional changes could not be allowed. They've changed. What used to be called mutiny is no longer mutiny. They say they are dissatisfied. They call themselves rebels. Those rebels become ...
Thank you very much, hon President. We have a number of other supplementary questions. With your permission I would really like to move on.
Hon Speaker, thank you. Mr President, you are the Commander in Chief of the SA National Defence Force. Now, because of the poor decisions taken by you, the Defence Force was deployed in the Central African Republic, CAR. Also, because of poor decisions taken by you, our soldiers were left dangling without the necessary equipment in a deadly firefight in the CAR. Ultimately, because of poor decisions taken by you, 15 of our soldiers died as a result of the deployment in the CAR. [Interjections.]
What happened in the CAR was an avoidable disaster and should never be allowed to happen again. Will the President therefore give us the assurance that the Defence Force will be properly equipped, properly trained and properly funded in the event that it is deployed as part of the new rapid reaction force under the auspices of the AU so that we can avoid a repeat of the CAR disaster?
Hon Speaker, if you had allowed me to help members to understand, maybe there would have been no need for this follow- up question. But you have the right to rule.
Firstly, no poor decisions were taken on the matter of the Central African Republic. There were no poor decisions. Very proper procedures in regard to establishing relationships with countries were followed.
The fact of the matter is that our soldiers were there to do training. They were not there for a war. They were there to train the soldiers of that country. That was the arrangement. In that case you don't send well-armed people to go and fight. They are not going to fight. Their mission there is to train other people. They are not going to fight.
So you can't put it as if there were a military operation and poor decisions. That was never the case. The country got into its own problems, which resulted in the rebels' coming into being and fighting to take over the country.
In the process of that interaction among the Central African Republic people who were quarrelling, the region and the AU intervened to stop the fighting. They went to Libreville to get an agreement that the fighting must come to an end and they must handle the country together for a particular period. Indeed, that is what happened. Those who came recognised the agreement between South Africa and their country, and we continued to be there - we were ready to do the kind of task that we were going to do. We were not there for war.
They later quarrelled again and in the process the rebels advanced very quickly. In that process they found our unit, which was not there to fight. They walked in on it, they fought it, and we just fought to defend ourselves in those circumstances. I don't think we should put it as if there was war there and we sent our soldiers to go and fight, and therefore took poor decisions. No, not at all. It is important for me to clarify the issue.
When it comes to the decisions that are taken by the AU, when we take those decisions, we will take them absolutely appropriately, knowing fully well what it is that we will be doing. What will South Africa contribute when other countries are contributing, for example? This will be a discussed thing and we will know exactly what it is that we need to do. Therefore, we can assure South Africans that no wrong decision will be taken. We will take correct decisions in implementing the collective decisions of the AU. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Speaker and Comrade President. As the ANC and the military people we fully agree with you that you have not taken a poor decision. You have advanced what has been created, namely multilateralism. Academics of note have been very impressed by the role played by your strategic leadership. [Interjections.]
Order! Order!
There has been quite good success in your contribution. The latest contribution that you have made, Comrade President, is in regard to Zimbabwe and how you have handled the situation there.
Now, what we are continuously asking you, Comrade President, is how you continue to give this type of leadership that you are providing on the African continent, which continuously helps to advance the agenda that has been set by the ANC in dealing with the African continent.
As you can hear, there is a feeling that we might want to replace our foreign policy vis--vis the military. Do you think we are going in that direction or do you think the way you are doing it, through these multilateral structures, will bring success? Can you give us more confidence, Comrade President? [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, certainly South Africa will continue to play a role on the continent, as I said earlier. We are on this continent and we understand the challenges of this continent, as other countries do. We take collective decisions to participate where South Africa is called upon to play a role.
We have been doing it continuously, either at the level of facilitation or in mediation. This was done a long time ago. Remember, when President Julius Nyerere passed on, the task of mediation in Burundi was given to President Mandela, which he did, and succeeded in bringing about peace and stability. This included sending our forces to help stabilise the country.
I think we will continue to do so at all material times for the sake of Africa. We have just outlined the fact that Africa suffered because we were not all there. We were attacked or undermined at different times in different parts of the continent and finally Africa was colonised. We are now saying that we are not going to allow any destabilisation. We are coming together to work together to ensure that we stop any activities that undermine Africa. So, we will be there at all material times. Wherever there are difficulties we will be there. We will continue to do so and make contributions to the structures. If it means militarily, it will be militarily as well, for the sake of the continent. We are not going to stop, but we are going to continue to do so. [Applause.]
It's a task that was given by the founders of the AU - to unite Africa to stand as one and to do everything. One of the tasks that the AU did was to unite behind us as we were fighting for our liberation and to establish a liberation committee, of which we were one of the beneficiaries. This has been going on and you can't change it. We will continue to do so. We are now free and we can play a role as well to ensure that Africa is secure. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, your Excellency, I just want to ask two questions. The first question is this. When you were talking about the standby force, was any timeframe given to the regions regarding by when they should establish the standby force? That's my first question.
Through you, Mr Speaker, I am asking this question, Mr President, because you said that there were negotiations on one side while coups d'tat and fights were starting on the other side, and so on and so forth. There are so many people involved that I'm a little worried that people will negotiate on one side while others are brewing a fight on the other side, or that people are fighting because they want to create employment for their soldiers. That's how they do it - you fight because you want to employ your soldiers to do something somewhere.
So, was any timeframe given to you that by a particular time you should have established the force, or could this be the reason why you therefore immediately came up with the rapid response force?
At the end of the day, how will this force be dismantled when the standby force takes off? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, I do not remember timeframes during the discussions, which, as I say, have taken a number of years. I don't remember timeframes. Secondly, regarding what would happen to the current rapid response force when the other force is established, I'm sure this matter will be discussed by the AU. It may look at a number of factors which need to be looked at, and may then determine that this one must indeed cease to exist.
I'm saying this for the following reason. If, for example, you take into account how the standby force is supposed to be resourced - which will be different from this one where countries that are volunteering will take care of what needs to be taken care of - who will take care of those ones? Will it be the AU? Does it have the necessary funds? Or will it be funded by the donors? Those are the matters that will be looked at. If the AU does not have the money and depends on the donors, and the donors are not happy with whatever operation it is, what will they say? These are matters that will be taken into account. Maybe at that time the AU will say that as countries we should budget for the standby force and therefore it will have the resources. The conclusion regarding the current one will then take a different direction. So that will be dependent, I think, on the level and time at which the decision is taken on the standby force as to what happens to the one that then exists. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Direct contact between Gupta family and Cabinet members
9. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the President of the Republic:
Why did the Gupta family have direct contact with members of his Cabinet (details furnished)? NO1699E
Hon Speaker, hon member, it is because any member of the public within South Africa and beyond our borders is free to contact members of my Cabinet, the Executive, or the Public Service directly. This is in line with the ethos of our administration, which promotes an open and accessible government. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, I understand and I appreciate that the name of the President, and the name of any President, is often name-dropped by those who want to appear close to him. I also appreciate that the President has friends outside of politics; we all have friends outside of politics and the President should be no different.
My question is this. How is it that a culture exists within the President's government that, when his name is mentioned by those who have a personal relationship with him, public officials are willing and ready to act unlawfully and use public money to advance private interests? Can the hon President tell this House how he is going to work towards ending this culture and this practice within his own government? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I take it that the incident the hon member is referring to has been investigated and the report thereof is being looked at in Parliament. I am sure that whatever issues people are concerned about will be reflected in that report. If there are specific questions to be asked, I'm also sure that when hon members discuss these matters, they will be able to deal with them and satisfy themselves. The report was presented publicly and therefore it dealt with the issues. I do not want to deal with the issue of rumours around the report. I don't think that is my business. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Mr President, do you agree that your friendship with the Gupta family has a negative impact on the Presidency, as well as the country? Have you, as the President of this country, spoken to the Gupta family on the recent embarrassment, and regarding the direct contact with some of our Ministers? Are you, Mr President, willing to cut your ties with the Gupta family? [Laughter.]
Hon Speaker, the hon member who asked the question earlier made a very clear statement that every human being has the right to be friends with whoever. We are not in a state that bans people because they are friends with certain others. However, we are in a state where, if there are specific issues that have affected the interests of government or whatever, people will come back and say that these are the facts, which indicate that this has happened and, therefore, is not good.
I do not think you can ask a person, just because there are these rumours around, to change what they are doing or whatever. We do not operate on rumours, whether the question concerns Ministers or whoever else. Those are rumours. I do not think you want Parliament to take decisions on the basis of rumours. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, Mr President, I just want to check if we were informed about, or permission was requested by the Premier of the Western Cape for, her dinner with the Gupta family? If you had been informed, would you have had a problem with her meeting with the Guptas? I'm asking this in the light of the Opposition's hypocrisy in questioning who the Guptas call, while they themselves still have contact with them and they do not question that. Thank you, Mr President. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I do not think I would have a problem with the premier's having a relationship with the Guptas. That is her own relationship and I do not know what the relationship is all about. I do not want to talk about rumours about them either. Whether there was a dinner, a relationship or whatever else, it is not my province. I have nothing to do with the fact that the premier has a relationship with whoever - it could be the Guptas or it could be everybody else - as it is not my problem. Therefore, I have absolutely no problem with the premier's having a relationship with the Guptas. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, hon President, the Western Cape is your province. However, it is not the point that I am raising.
Hon President, it is really unfortunate that every time the name of the Guptas pops up, your name is linked with it.
However, in this instance, I just want to find out from you whether you will instruct the National Treasury or any other institution of government to investigate the following. I was in Vrede at Krynaauwslust farm. The farm is about 4 400 ha big and it has been given by the Free State government to Estina (Pty) Ltd - a company linked to the Guptas - for nothing, on a free lease. They are also going to get R500 million to run the farm, and on top of that they have the right to use the farm to get loans. If they cannot pay, the farm can be taken over by the bank.
My question is very simple. Mr President, are you prepared to instruct the National Treasury or any other investigation unit to investigate this particular procurement of the farm? The farm has been handed over to these people, the Guptas, who by the way have never been previously disadvantaged in this country. The premier cannot investigate because he is also involved. [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, you know, my name is dropped everywhere when anyone does something. I can tell you, even if there is a car accident - Zuma! I think this was ably put here by another hon member on a different occasion. The Zuma name emerges - it is always there and whether one is aware of it or not, it always comes up.
Now, you are saying that the name was dropped. I am not sure whether you said my name was dropped in that transaction. [Interjections] Oh, I see. All you are asking is whether we can ask people to investigate. I am sure that if you have the facts, you can just bring the facts so that people can do the investigation. I think it is as simple as that. If you think something wrong has been done and it therefore needs to be investigated, provide the information. Thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Lessons learnt regarding the combating of substance abuse
10. Mrs P Tshwete (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) With reference to reports of the negative effect of substance abuse on the development of young people and on social stability in communities, what lessons from his visit to Eldorado Park can be applied to ensure that similar challenges will not occur in other parts of South Africa;
(2) how will he address this issue, especially among the youth;
(3) what mechanisms are in place to ensure that the issue of corrupt police personnel colluding with the drug lords is addressed;
(4) what role can other stakeholders play in reducing the supply of, demand for, and harm related to, substance abuse?