Madam Deputy Speaker, I've been asked to be very brief. [Interjections.] Unless you put a chair here, I'm not going to stop.
In terms of section 77(3) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, "all money Bills must be considered in accordance with the procedure established by section 75". It goes on to say that "an Act of Parliament must provide for a procedure to amend money Bills before Parliament". The Bill before this House today gives effect to this injunction and reaffirms our commitment as Parliament led by the ANC that we take oversight seriously. This was perhaps one of the outstanding pillars in our legislative and governance toolkits of ensuring total accountability of the executive arm of the state as envisaged in our Constitution.
I am truly humbled to have been part of the team of midwives that brought to life this offspring of a democratic and developmental state. Allow me to give a little bit of background to this piece of legislation which most of us are familiar with. I am aware that as early as 1997, the National Treasury drafted a Bill which sought to give effect to this constitutional requirement. Parliament could not accept this as its powers to draft legislation were going to be abdicated to the executive.
My information is that in 1999, a task team was established to look at the question of oversight in its totality and to research the enactment of this legislation in the process. The process took its course, and there are volumes of documentation and information that came from it. I must admit that we benefited tremendously from the research. In 2004, the Joint Rules Committee established a task team to take the process forward under the auspices of the oversight and accountability task team. This task team had three focus groups, namely the focus group on projects, the focus group on committees and the focus group on budgeting processes. The mandate of the focus group on budgeting processes was none other than giving effect to section 77(3) of the Constitution that I spoke about. Having commissioned research of our own, we ended up being overwhelmed with the information and documentation. But the biggest challenge was for the focus group members to be able to prioritise the focus groups' tasks above other committees' work.
It is the culmination of these focus groups' hard work that produced the draft Bill that was ultimately presented to the oversight and accountability task team, subsequently tabled before the Joint Rules Committee. Just when I thought I was done with this daunting task, the draft Bill was also tabled in Parliament and was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration and for report. Today the committee reports as directed by this House.
The Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill seeks to establish a procedure to amend money Bills before Parliament within the context of oversight findings and the adoption of the fiscal framework. It also provides for the establishment of a parliamentary budget office to provide research and technical support to Parliament and its committees, pursuant to maintaining oversight over the budgeting process and the possible amendments to money Bills.
Section 77(1) of the Constitution defines a money Bill as a Bill that does the following: appropriates money; imposes national taxes, levies, duties or surcharges; abolishes or reduces, or grants exemptions from any national taxes, levies or surcharges; or authorises direct charges against the National Revenue Fund except a Bill envisaged in section 214 authorising direct charges -the Division of Revenue Act.
Therefore, it is understandable why the first people's Parliament, when drafting the Constitution, put in a clause that requires a different procedure for the amendment of money Bills. By their very nature, money Bills tend to be at the centre of the entire governance system such that if not properly handled, they would upset the entire state machinery.
There are a number of principles that guided us when we drafted this legislation, and they are as follows: we have a legitimate democratic state based on the will of the people as envisaged in our Freedom Charter; our budgeting process has undergone an extensive reform that is transparent and participatory; the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework presents Parliament with an opportunity to influence the Budget and other money Bills; the advances that we made in relation to physical stability should not be eroded; and the amendment of money Bills is an oversight tool that must be used as a last resort in parliamentary processes.
This Bill makes provision for the establishment of appropriations committees in both Houses that will deal with appropriations and other money Bills and amendments thereof. The finance committee will continue to play its role in terms of the broad mandate of oversight over the macroeconomic policy, including the fiscal policy. The establishment of these committees is provided for in clause 4.
In terms of this Bill, parliamentary committees will be required to assess the performance of government departments by adopting budgetary review and recommendation reports. This is meant to strengthen the current annual reporting of departments as required by the Public Finance Management Act.
One of the key features of this Bill is that Parliament will be required to vote on the fiscal framework which should be part of the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. In terms of this Bill, the fiscal framework will be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance, and the committee must report to Parliament after 30 days of its tabling.
Some sections of the MTBPS that relate to spending priorities of national departments and the division of revenue will be referred to the committee on appropriations. The committee on appropriations will be required to consult with other committees in its deliberations on spending priorities and the division of revenue.
Section 7 of this Bill reaffirms compliance with section 27 of the Public Finance Management Act when tabling the national annual Budget. But in addition to section 27 requirements, it includes a number of other things, which are as follows: the proposed fiscal framework for the financial year; the key macroeconomic assumptions underlying the fiscal framework over the short, medium and long -term; the key fiscal ratios for the financial year and subsequent two years, including revenue expenditure, primary and overall balance and outstanding general government and public sector debt at the end of the financial year as a percentage of gross domestic product; tax and other revenue proposals, including the contribution of different revenue categories to national revenue for the financial year and the subsequent two years; taking into account the cyclical factors in the formulation of the fiscal framework as presented; and any other information as may be required by the House from time to time.
We also set out a clause for adopting the fiscal framework, which my colleague Ms Sibhidla will be talking to, and requirements that have to be reported to Parliament within 16 days. Should the need arise to amend the fiscal framework, utmost care should also be taken that Parliament does not undermine macroeconomic stability. The same caution should also be exercised when amending money Bills or taking any decisions in terms of this Act. These considerations are outlined in clauses 8(5)(a-g) and 8(6)(a- c).
As members would have noticed, the bulk of the Bill deals with budgeting processes and the amendment of the Budget because of its importance among money Bills. But provision is made for the procedure to amend other money Bills, and that is spelt out in section 13 of the Bill. Even in this section, emphasis is placed on the committee on appropriations being at the centre of these amendments and being consistant with the fiscal framework whilst ensuring compliance with section 8(5).
The Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill proposes the establishment of the parliamentary budget office with the main objective of providing Parliament with independent, objective and professional advice and analysis on matters related to the Budget and other money Bills. Again, my colleague will be dealing with this in more detail. In reporting the Bill, the committee also tables the recommendations of amendment to Rules to make provision for the establishment of this office.
Allow me to take this opportunity to thank everybody that has played a role in seeing this Bill to this stage. The Portfolio Committee on Finance, the focus group, the task team on oversight and accountability, Parliament's support staff, outside assistance in the person of Ms Folscher, the parliamentary legal support team -particularly Adv Jenkins - and all stakeholders that made submissions. A particular thanks to the Joint Budget Committee and members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts who attended, and to the former chair of the Standing Committee on Auditor- General, Ms Hogan, who has taken a new position, and all my predecessors.
On behalf of the committee, I present this draft Bill for adoption. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, as we heard, section 77(3) of our Constitution requires the establishment of a procedure to enable Parliament to amend money Bills that have been introduced by the Minister of Finance. Money Bills relate to the raising of revenue and the appropriation thereof between spending programmes, of which the most important Bills are the annual Division of Revenue and Appropriation Bills.
It is also implied by the Constitution that there must be a clear separation of authority, powers, accountability and oversight between government and Parliament.
Belangrike aspekte wat in die proses vasgevang is binne die wetsontwerp, sluit in dat komitees in beide die Nasionale Vergadering en die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies ingestel sal word vir beide inkomstebestuur en die verdeling van fondse. Hierdie komitees sal uiteraard veelparty komitees wees. Die verantwoordelikheid vir die proses sal in die uitvoerende gesag van die Parlement gesetel wees, en 'n begrotingskantoor moet ingestel word, om die komitees van diens te wees. Die Parlement sal sy eie begroting saamstel met fondse wat van die Nasionale Tesourie verkry word. Hoewel ongespandeerde fondse nie aan die Tesourie terug gestuur word nie, moet die finansile resultate van die Parlement aan die Nasionale Tesourie gerapporteer word vir konsolidasie. Hoewel rapportering aan die Nasionale Tesourie nie plaasvind nie, is die oorsigverantwoordelikheid in die Parlement en sy uitvoerende gesag gesetel. Belangrik, is die verantwoordelikheid van die Parlement om te verseker dat begrote fondse in ooreenstemming met die begrotings en die strategiese en meetbare doelwitte bestee word. Hierdie oorsigrol is nie noodwendig gesetel in die Minister van Finansies, Nasionale Tesourie of die Ouditeur-generaal nie. Dit is gesetel in die Parlement, die genoemde finansile komitees, en veral die onderskeie portefeuljekomitees wat moet toesien dat effektiewe en verantwoordbare bestuur verseker word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Important aspects that are captured in the process within the Bill, includes that committees will be established in both the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces for the management of revenue as well as the division of funds. These committees will of course be multiparty committees. The responsibility for the process will be vested in the executive of Parliament, and a budget office should be established to be of service to the committees. Parliament will draw up its own budget from funds that are acquired from National Treasury. Although funds that were not spent are not returned to the Treasury the financial results of Parliament must be reported to National Treasury for consolidation. Although reporting to National Treasury does not take place, the oversight responsibility is vested in Parliament and its executive authority. Of great significance is the responsibility that Parliament has to ensure that funds budgeted for is spent according to the budgets and strategic and measurable goals. This oversight role is not necessarily vested in the Minister of Finance, National Treasury or the Auditor-General. It is vested in Parliament, the above-mentioned financial committees, and especially the different portfolio committees that must ensure effective and responsible management.]
A very important and significant responsibility is the determination of the accepted fiscal framework, which will guide the responsibilities and tasks of the respective committees. In this process, a strong and well-understood relationship must be established between the respective committees, the Minister of Finance and National Treasury. The fiscal framework must give effect to the national executive's macroeconomic policy and include estimates of revenue, expenditure, borrowing, interest and debt servicing charges, contingency reserve, etc.
This Bill sets out the procedure to deal with any proposed revenue and appropriation Bills which will most certainly require from every effected party, specifically the respective portfolio committees, to align their tasks and responsibilities properly to assure that the consequences of this Bill will not burden or delay the implementation of money Bills introduced by the Minister.
Voorsitter, hierdie konsepwetgewing is nodig om die nodige oorsig en aanspreeklikheid aan die Parlement te gee. Hierdie verrerkende magte en implikasies kan misbruik word, wat die verantwoordelikheid en aanspreeklikheid op elke verkose lid van die Parlement net soveel groter maak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Chairperson, this draft legislation is necessary to give the required oversight and accountability to Parliament. These far-reaching powers and implications can be abused, which make the responsibility and accountability that rest on every elected Member of Parliament that much bigger.]
You can't blame the civil servants in the various departments anymore. The buck stops with you the elected representatives of the people of South Africa. The DA supports the adoption of this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Madam Deputy Speaker, it has taken a very long time for this piece of legislation to come before this House. But when one realises that it deals with a highly sensitive issue, it is perhaps understandable that 12 years have passed since the adoption of South Africa's Constitution in 1996, which underpins this legislation.
When I got here in August 2007, one of the first questions I put to the hon Minister of Finance was during the time when he was going to introduce legislation to give effect to section 77(3) of the Constitution, not knowing that it had already been done and that the matter was under consideration by a focus group.
I would consider this piece of legislation as one of the most important pieces of legislation that this House is going to pass. It is common knowledge that those of us who serve on portfolio committees interrogate Budgets that are presented by the hon Minister during appropriation. We question heads of departments as well as Ministers, and there is very little we can do to effect any changes to the amount of money that is allocated to departments.
For the first time now, we, as parliamentarians, sitting in this House, can propose amendments and even withhold funds and certain line items that are related to any particular Vote through our appropriations committees. I think this is a significant step and that it gives this Parliament and us a lot more teeth in ensuring that heads of departments and Ministers spend their money effectively and efficiently.
We do know that when the Joint Budget Committee made recommendations - the hon Mabe made recommendations recently on behalf of the committee - there were a number of departments that were found wanting. This is now going to correct that kind of situation because we can change the way they operate.
But I think the success or failure of this piece of legislation, and its implementation, is going to rest on the output of the parliamentary budget office. Parliament needs to ensure that sufficient funds are allocated to make sure that there are human resources - qualified and skilled personnel - that work within the parliamentary budget office. This is because it is going to be the responsibility of the skilled economist to provide nonpartisan analysis and advice to us as Members of Parliament and to our committees. We do know that National Treasury will be consulted all the way. We also know that it is very difficult to get trained economists and finance people in the South African market. We do hope that there will be no poaching of people working within the department of the hon Minister at this moment in time by the parliamentary budget office.
Having sounded this general note of warning, that the parliamentary budget office needs to support us as parliamentarians all the way, we would like to see the implementation of this piece of legislation as work in progress. As we go along, I think we as Parliament will decide whether we need more skilled staff and how we should function as appropriation committees.
The IFP will certainly support this Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill. Thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, the Bill before us is one of the longest outstanding matters of this House. The Constitution of the country provides for the amendment of money Bills by Parliament. Realistic oversight and control of budgetary allocations is indeed the lifeblood of most established democratic parliaments. It is in the consideration and amendment of budgets that public representatives can most tangibly express the policy mandate endorsed by their voters. [Interjections.]
Order, hon member. Is the timer working? [Interjections.] Thank you. You may proceed.
You have taken two minutes of my time, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The Bill creates a complex framework of processes to address the various types of money Bills that come before Parliament. It also sets out a series of interlinking timeframes for these processes to be completed. It is the duty of this House to ensure that we do everything possible to ensure full and meaningful public participation. Therefore, we trust that organised civil society institutions and NGOs are already keenly awaiting the opportunity to participate. The UDM supports the Bill. Thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Just before the next speaker, can I address you on a particular issue which I think is of interest to the House?
We are sitting very, very late tonight. It is going on and on and we are all very hungry. I would like to propose that the hon Minister of Finance who is delaying us here this evening with his Bills allow us to get food from Mr Delivery. We could all put an order in very quickly and ... [Interjections.]
That is not a point of order.
No, it is not a point of order. I thought it was in the best interests of the members present that if the Minister of Finance could allow this to happen, we could get Mr Delivery in very quickly.
Deputy Speaker, hon members, good evening. The Constitution of the Republic mandates Parliament to pass an Act that outlines procedures in terms of which money Bills can be amended. This piece of legislation will go a long way towards empowering Parliament to exercise its oversight responsibility more comprehensively by holding government accountable for both nonfinancial and financial performance.
The Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill seeks to establish a procedure to amend money Bills before Parliament within the context of oversight findings and the adoption of a fiscal framework. It further establishes a parliamentary budget office to provide research support to Parliament and its committees in maintaining oversight of the Budget process and possible amendments to money Bills.
During the past 14 years, Parliament managed to change a lot of racist apartheid laws that excluded the majority of people of this country. But when it comes to the oversight role over the executive, the approach has not been the same and it has not lived up to expectations. You have a situation where some committees are willing to ask the executive difficult questions in ensuring that the monies appropriated to them are spent accordingly. On the other hand, you have committees that have chosen the easy route of becoming the spokesperson of the executive and ignoring their political responsibility as outlined in the Constitution. The behaviour can be attributed to lack of capacity in committees to analyse strategic plans and budgets presented to them by government departments. Therefore, the establishment of the budget committee, with all the resources it requires, will respond directly to this challenge.
Section 9 of this Bill prescribes a clear procedure on passing the Division of Revenue Bill. It says that any amendment to the Division of Revenue Bill must be consistent with the adopted fiscal framework and section 214 of the Constitution and that the Standing Rules must, amongst other things, provide for the participation of chairpersons of other committees and civil society by means of public hearings. These Standing Rules must also provide for provinces and local governments affected by the amendments to respond to the proposed amendments.
In ensuring that Parliament exercises its rights responsibly, the Bill proposes that Parliament consults with our institutions that enhance democracy and transformation. In this case, we are talking about the Financial and Fiscal Commission, which gives advice to organs of state on fiscal matters.
Regarding the passing of an appropriation Bill after the adoption of the fiscal framework, the appropriation Bill must be referred to the committee on appropriations of the National Assembly. This clause proposes that the Minister table proposals setting out strategic priorities, measurable objectives and other performance information for each department, public entity or institution against expected revenue and proposed expenditure according to their plans.
After the appropriation Bill has been referred to the NCOP, it must be referred to the committee on appropriations of the Council. The House must then consider the recommendations of the committee on appropriations to release funds within seven days after the committee has reported to the House.
Regarding the passing of revenue Bills, they must be referred to the committee on finance of the National Assembly for consideration and report. In amending revenue Bills and revenue proposals, Parliament and its committees must ensure that the total amount of revenue raised is consistent with the approved fiscal framework and the Division of Revenue Bill. Parliament must also consider the impact of proposed changes on the composition of tax revenue with reference to the balance between direct and indirect taxes and also consider regional and international tax trends. Standing Rules, in relation to this section must provide, amongst other things, for the committee on finance to consult with other committees and to report to the House in terms of subsection 7.
At the beginning of my input I mentioned that one of the objects of this Bill is to establish a budget committee. This committee will focus mainly on providing Parliament and its committees with independent, objective and professional advice and analysis on matters relating to the Budget and other money Bills. Its core function is to support the implementation of this Act by undertaking research and analysis for the committees. The function also includes the following: providing reviews and analysis of the documentation tabled in Parliament by the executive; and providing advice and analysis on proposed amendments to the fiscal framework, the Division of Revenue Bill and money Bills and on policy proposals with budgetary implications.
In conclusion, this is such a powerful piece of legislation which we have been waiting for for quite some time. We hope that committees will use this space that is being created by this Act to address the socioeconomic conditions of our people effectively. The ANC supports this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Madam Deputy Speaker, the MF acknowledges the importance of following procedure in every crevice of administrative action and government business.
The MF is pleased at the provisions of this Bill that serve to administer the money Bills process. We are further pleased at the establishment of a parliamentary budget committee. This will clearly allow Parliament to fulfil its constitutional duty to oversee government and to ensure that it upholds the values of democracy in every corner of South Africa and that it does this in accordance with legislation and policy.
At the moment, however, we are all praying for the rand to stabilise and hope that the changes that have rocked the market in Wall Street will be overcome. South Africa's potential should not rest on the stability of other markets.
The MF is pleased at the outcome of this Bill and the committee it wishes to establish. The MF supports the draft Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill. I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Deputy Speaker, government does not have any money of its own; it all belongs to the people. The people should therefore have a voice in what happens to their money.
Although our Constitution provides for Parliament to establish procedures to amend money Bills, the enabling legislation was not pursued. Parliament has, for several years, not been empowered to influence the application of economic policy significantly. Three important aspects must be considered in evolving a system to cater for public interaction with the important process of resource allocation, and they are as follows: the overall economic policy objective must remain in focus; fiscal prudence must be maintained; and an expert understanding of how changes that are proposed will impact on the economy is required.
The fiscal framework forms the core around which macroeconomic policy is developed. It gives effect to government's macroeconomic policy and includes an estimate of financial expectations. This fiscal framework and revenue proposals must be referred to the finance committees of the National Assembly and the NCOP. Committees must then conduct joint public hearings. This will provide an opportunity for participants to grasp the overall economic policy objective and the numbers involved.
The fiscal framework budgetary allocation to government departments and the division of revenue between different spheres of government will be subject to scrutiny and input at parliamentary public hearings. When amending the fiscal framework, a money Bill or when taking any decision in terms of the Act, Parliament and its committees must take various factors relating to fiscal responsibility into consideration. These factors include those measures that ensure that fiscal prudence is maintained. In particular, debt levels and interest costs must be reasonable. Fiscal prudence sometimes appears to be in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary to clarify what "reasonable" actually means.
Although the Bill boosts parliamentary oversight and opens the process of national budgeting to public influence, it will be important to ensure that we do not evolve a system where our scarce resources are allocated on the basis of who screams the loudest. If this happens, the noise will be amplified everywhere and the sight of overall economic objectives will be lost.
To ensure meaningful participation, information is required. Parliament must boost this capacity by creating a budget office that will assist committees and Members of Parliament with research and expertise. This office must be technical and not political in nature.
The Bill provides for a coherent focus, maintenance of fiscal prudence and the provision of expertise. The DA supports it. Thank you.
Ndiyabulisa Sihlalo. Phambi kokuba ndithethe, ndiza kwenza ilizwi lovelwano kootishala ababini bengingqi endiyimeleyo eNoupoort abathe bafumana ingozi yemoto basweleka ngoko nangoko. Imiphefumlo yabo inga ingalala ukuphumla.
Mandithezele emnxebeni. Ngokubhekisele kuMqulu weNkululeko, i-Freedom Charter, bathetha ookhokho bethu nootat'omkhulu besithi akuyi kuba kho rhulumente ngaphandle korhulumente oya kuthi usekwe phezu kweziseko zoluntu, oya kwanezisa iimfuno zabantu. Ngoko ke, siyayicela le Ndlu ibekekileyo ukuba iwamkele lo Mthetho uYilwayo kuba ufezekisa ezinye zeemfuno zabantu.
Inkqubo yePalamente ithetha ngokukhuthaza ukuthatha inxaxheba kukawonke- wonke. Njengokuba namanye amalungu ebesetshilo, le yeyona Ndlu imele abantu, ngoko ke yeyona Ndlu inokukwazi ukuthi ibize abantu ukuza kuxoxa ngezezimali. Iphelile laa nto yokuba kuthi xa kuxoxwa ngezezimali, kuphelelwe nje phaya kuNongxowa okanye kuMphathiswa wezeziMali. Namhlanje sinika le Ndlu igunya okanye sicela ukuba le Ndlu izinike igunya ukuze ingenelele ixoxe ngezeziMali.
Kodwa kuyo yonke loo nto, ndihlaba ikhwelo kumalungu ale Ndlu ngelithi lo Mthetho uYilwayo angawusebenziseli ukuphazamisa iinkqubo zikarhulumente. Kufuneka kujongwe kakuhle ukuba iinkqubo zezimali zihamba njani na, njengoko sele betshilo oogxa bam. Kukho amasebe esithi gqolo siwanika imali, kodwa afumana ukulan dulwa yiOfisi yoMphicothi-ziNcwadi. Kambe thina asikwazi, sibopheke izandla neenyawo ngenxa yokuba sihloniphe uMgaqo- siseko.
Ngoko ke masizame siguqule izinto kula masebe. Lo Mthetho uYilwayo uyasivumela ukuba senze kanye loo nto, ngokoMgaqo-siseko.
Kambe njengamalungu, asisinyanga isixhobo esinaso, zininzi. Kodwa asizisebenzisi ngokufanelekileyo ezinye zazo, ezinjenge-Public Finance Management Act, i-Treasury Instructions nezinye. Xa siqulunqa lo Mthetho uYilwayo, songeza kwezo zixhobo ukuze sifumane amandla.
Loo nto ayithethi ukuba le komiti okanye iikom iti ezikhoyo apha ziza kuthatha umsebenzi kaNondyebo. UNondyebo uza kuthi gqolo esenza umsebenzi wakhe. Thina njengabantu abase iso kumasebe nezinye iziseko, kufuneka sithi gqolo sijonga ukuba ngaba izinto zenzeka ngokohlobo ebekufanele ukuba zibe zenzeke ngalo na.
Kwakhona, ndifuna ukuhlaba ikhwelo kwiKomiti yoHlahlo lwAbiwo-mali, lokuba xa amasebe esiya kuyo esithi afuna imali eninzana, kufuneka iwancede ingajongi into yokuba la masebe anemali angakhange ayisebenzise - ezi mali kuthiwa zii-roll o ver.
Ngoko, ndiphakamisa ukuba, nokuba isekiwe laa komiti kunye nala ofisi yohlahlo lwabiwo-mali, kufuneka sithathwe sisiwe kuqeqesho olufana noluya kubonelelwa ngalo i-Standing Committee on Public Accounts nguMphicothi- ziNcwadi. Siza kutsho sazi sonke siziikomiti ukuba iimali zamasebe ziluxanduva lwethu, aziloxanduva lwe-Scopa okanye lweSebe lezeziMali okanye lweKomiti yoHlahlo lwAbiwo-Mali.
Ngoko ke, thina kufuneka sithathe inyathelo, nePalamente isincedise, sikwazi ukulwa le nto. Ndifuna ukuphinda nditsho koosihlalo, ukuba bangasebenzisi esi sixhobo ukuze bazame ukufumana imali eninzana kuba kuseza kufuneka ukuba baxambule kuqala phambi kokuba kuguqulwe imicimbi yezezimali.
Ndiyayicela le Ndlu yoWiso-Mthetho ukuba ijonge kakuhle ngoba sinaso isixhobo sokukhawulezisa iingxelo nezigqibo esiye sizithi thaca apha. Kodwa oko akwenzeki. Ngaloo magama, umbutho wesizwe uyawamkela lo Mthetho uYilwayo uthiwe thaca kule ndawo.
Xa ndivala, mandivale ngelithi onke amasebe okanye zonke iikomiti kufuneka zijonge ezi zinto ndiza kuzibiza ngokuba ziingxelo zonyaka ze ekomiti, i- strategic plans nee-key performance indicator. Zizo eziza kukwazi ukusichazela ukuba isibane esibomvu siyalayita na, oko kukuthi, eli sebe lisebenzisa imali kakhulu okanye hayi, ukuze nikwazi ukuwabiza.
Masingalindi de babhu ...- ndiza kuthi kuyabhudwa xa ndingenawo amanye amagama okuchaza le meko - ukuze emveni konyaka babizwe kuthiwe hayi apha anenzanga kakuhle; apha nenze kakuhle. Kanti ukuba besihamba nabo inyanga nenyanga, besiya kukwazi ukulungisa izinto phambi kokuba zibe sisifo. Kufuneka unyange umkhuhlane ungekenzi ubhubhane. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)
[Mr S E ASIYA: Greetings Chairperson. I would first like to pass my condolences to the families of the two teachers from my constituency in Noupoort, who were involved in a car accident and died instantly. May their souls rest in peace.
Let me go straight to the point. Regarding the Freedom Charter, our forefathers mentioned therein that there wouldn't be any viable government without the involvement of people's civic structures; a government that is aiming at providing for people's needs. Therefore, we urge this House to pass this Bill as it fulfils some of the needs of the people. Parliamentary programmes encourage public participation. As some of the hon members pointed out, this is the more representative of the two Houses, and therefore the House that should call for people's participation when financial issues are discussed. These discussions should not be the sole preserve of the Treasury or the Minister of Finance. Today we are mandating this House or rather we are urging this House to use its powers by participating in budget discussions.
Be that as it may, I appeal to members of this House not to use this Bill to disrupt government programmes. As my colleagues have already stated, we should monitor the monetary policies. There are departments that we recommend for funding, but which are then denied funding by the Auditor- General's office, and there is nothing that we can do because our hands are tied in terms of the Constitution.
Let us turn things around in these departments. The Constitution allows us, through this Bill, to do just that.
However, as members, this is not the only tool that we have at our disposal, we have plenty of other measures. But, some of these measures we do not use efficiently, such as the Public Finance Management Act, Treasury Instructions and others. With this Bill, we are adding to those measures and also empowering ourselves. That does not mean that this committee or other committees of Parliament will take over the duties of the Treasury. The Treasury will continue with its duties. We, as people who have to perform oversight duties over departments and other structures, have to continue monitoring that things are going according to plan.
Furthermore, I would like to appeal to the budget committee, that when departments approach it with an increased budget, to assist them instead of looking at the fact that they are asking for an increased budget, yet they are underspending and having roll-overs.
I therefore suggest that even if the committee and the budget allocation office are put in place, we should be provided with the same training as that offered to members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. This will ensure that as committees we all realise that departmental finances are our responsibility, and not only Scopa's responsibility, or that of the Department of Finance or of the finance committee.
We therefore have to take the initiative, with the help of Parliament, to take up this fight. I would also like to urge the committee chairpersons not to misuse this opportunity by asking for increased budgets because they will still have to motivate for them before the issue of their finances is reviewed.
I also urge this House to take note that we do have measures speeding up the implementation of resolutions that have been taken here. But that is not happening. And when we want that to happen, we will not be able to do so. With those words, the ANC supports the Bill tabled before this House.
In conclusion, all the departments and the committees will have to keep an eye on the annual reports, strategic plans and key performance indicators. These are the things that will tell us whether or not we should start pressing the panic buttons with regard to overspending.
We should not wait until there is a huge problem; and then after a year, they are hauled over the coals and told where they have done well and where they haven't. If we worked closely with departments on a monthly basis, we would be able to curb some of the problems as soon as they appear. Prevention is better than cure. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.
Chairperson, I move the amendment to the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Bill, as printed on the Order Paper (p 504):