Chairperson and members of the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, chairperson and members of the SA Local Government Association, my counterpart the Minister of Public Functions from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mr Botoro Bodias, distinguished guests, our senior leadership of the Public Service and ladies and gentlemen, vamanana, vatatana, vaboti, vasesi; riperile n'wana manana [mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters; good evening to you and to my sibling].
Yesterday we addressed the National Assembly where we outlined our programme of activities through all the portfolios over which we have executive authority to account to Parliament. In doing so, we stated our priorities, which included the following: improving the capacity and efficacy of the state; improving the delivery and quality of public services provided; ensuring honesty and transparency; sustaining participatory governance; and promoting international relations and co- operation. We have also analysed the financial resources year-to-date expenditure actuals, on the basis of which we communicated a year-end projected expenditure of 96%.
We have finally committed ourselves to the following plan of activities over the given period. By next week, we will have pronounced the final position on the implementation of the occupation-specific dispensation, OSD, after a deadline we set yesterday, 30 June 2009. We will communicate a time-bound 2009-10 salary negotiation programme soon - and we can assure hon members that it is not our desire to have a long, drawn-out negotiation process.
We are committed to quality which we measure by time. This means following up on issues raised in public participation fora such as izimbizo, the National Council of Province's programme of "Taking Parliament to the People" and the National Assembly programme of "People's Assemblies" - and we'll do that with immediate effect.
Other goals include: enforcing compulsory signing of performance agreements and enforcement of penalties for noncompliance, all with immediate effect; ensuring the implementation of a time-bound response window to the reports of the Public Service Commission; introducing a broader turnaround strategy for the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, by the end of July 2009; finalising the further transformation process of the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, by November 2009; introducing a community development programme turnaround strategy by December 2009; addressing the nation on the Auditor-General's report dealing with conflicts of interest in which it was reported that there were some public servants who had interests in some companies that were, in turn, doing business with government - we will soon address the nation on that report to indicate the practical steps we intend taking forward; hosting a public sector summit by December 2009; and introducing the graduate top-up training programme immediately, and sustaining it as we progress.
Maybe we need to expand on this because there are unemployed graduates in our country and people are saying they are unemployable, yet they are graduates. The top-up programme, which Palama is introducing and sustaining, is meant to ensure that these graduates are employable. Chairperson, these are our short-term pledges and please hold us to them. We are presenting ourselves fully understanding that the separation of powers, which is part of our democracy, also has the confession part which is power relations. And we know very well that in that understanding we are accountable as an executive to Parliament and included in that establishment is this august House.
We also promise that by the end of the financial year we will have done the following: ensured a continuous reduction and final elimination of qualified audit reports by provincial and national government departments; facilitated the development of an accelerated policy implementation framework so that we can see ourselves in a situation in which we are equal to what is expected of us in terms of policy implementation; hosted a service delivery summit; and assessed the impact of the capacity-building interventions introduced so that we know exactly what we have to do.
It is for that reason we are saying Palama is the way to go. Palama is the new name for the SA Management Development Institute, which deals with the training of leadership and the introduction of new entrants into our Public Service. We have committed ourselves to performing an impact assessment of the internship programme in removing barriers of entry to the Public Service particularly and the entire job market in general. We will also have connected all existing Thusong centres to Internet technology by the end of the financial year and will connect each new one on establishment. Finally, by the end of the financial year we will have performed a corruption impact assessment so that we can see if corruption is an issue and if it has an impact on service delivery. What is the common manifestation of corruption? Where is it located in terms of the sector? We are going to do this and have committed ourselves to ensuring that corruption-fighting instruments are introduced - starting with the corruption Act, the national anti-corruption Act and following with the anticorruption strategy. We have held anticorruption summits, made decisions, and clearly stated what we can and cannot tolerate. How effective are these instruments going to be? What are we doing to actually implement all of them so that we accelerate the implementation of decisions that we have taken?
We promise to introduce to Parliament the Public Administration Management Bill, thereby ending the debate on the question of a single Public Service. We will also synchronise the programme of wage or salary negotiations with the government's budget cycle as they are related. This sounds like a heavy programme, and some may ask questions on what informs our confidence. What makes us believe that we will walk the talk in committing ourselves to doing all this? Our position on issues like this is that it takes dedication and effective management to realise the objectives that people and institutions set for themselves.
Working together within the Ministry for the Public Service and Administration as well as the entire Public Service, we can do all these things and still more. Our commitment to service delivery informs us that if we are to be true to our constitutional and electoral mandate, we should be available to do more than ordinary things. Hard work is the name of the game and nothing else.
A very important question was asked yesterday when we were debating the Budget Vote in the National Assembly - whether we were not far from implementing the Batho Pele policy. I indicated that when people said we were far from, or not far from, or not so far, or not near to implementing Batho Pele, they should first have a full understanding of what the policy is all about. And I want this House to debate this issue either today or at a later stage, but soon. It is necessary that we do so, because the meaning goes beyond just putting people first. It means a lot, and if we were to pause for a moment here and then say exactly what it means, you would not be surprised to hear someone saying it means that we must put people first - even if you put them first to explain to them why services should not be provided to them. I would not be surprised if members present here or those who are watching do that. That's the reason why we need to talk about Batho Pele. What is it all about?
But, I want to put it very clearly that I'm not saying that we should debate this matter, because I have no doubt that Batho Pele is the way to go. I know that we are on board as far as the implementation of Batho Pele is concerned - at least at the average level of our general performance on policy implementation recorded over our 15-year record of service delivery.
Let me remind this House of what the Batho Pele policy binds us to do. I'm going to go through the eight principles of Batho Pele, not just the heading which has to do with the redress, setting of standards and so forth. By doing that you are not going deep enough in terms of what it means. It binds us to do the following: citizens shall be consulted about the level and quality of the public services they receive and, where possible, they should be given a choice about the services that are offered; citizens should be made aware of what services they should expect; all citizens should have equal access to the services to which they are entitled - see, it talks about entitlement; citizens shall be treated with courtesy and consideration; citizens should be given full and accurate information about the public services they are entitled to receive; citizens should be told how national and provincial governments are run, how much they cost and who is in charge - maybe that also applies to the NCOP and the National Assembly; citizens should be offered an apology, a full explanation and a speedy and effective remedy if the promised standard of services is not delivered and, when complaints are made, citizens should receive a sympathetic, positive response; and public services should be provided economically and efficiently.
Of course, I know that we may not exhaustively deal with all these issues on any single day. I want us to appreciate that the ANC government does as expected in order to live up to what is expected of us through the Batho Pele policy, as well as what is expected of the broader civil society as led by all of us in this House and those outside this House. It cannot be the responsibility of the government alone to implement Batho Pele. We all have some work to do.
Let us analyse only two principles out of the eight so that we understand that it takes more than government for us to realise the objectives of Batho Pele. In so doing, we will come to terms with the argument that I'm raising. The principle of redress calls on us to ensure that citizens are offered an apology, a full explanation and a speedy and effective remedy if the promised standard of services is not delivered, and that when complaints are made citizens should receive a sympathetic, positive response.
Suppose the level of consciousness is so high in the community that citizens know what this principle entitles them to receive: You can rest assured that we may well have to draw up an annual programme of apology, giving full explanations and raising more expectations as we try to give speedy remedies. This can cause people to reject the explanations given, the apology offered and the remedy provided. Therefore, you will be reinvited to do exactly what we have done.
This often happens when the level of understanding is such that, deliberately or accidentally, some people choose to be selfish and less concerned with what affects the state and more concerned with personal priorities. Let us take a situation that some of us may not like to hear about. We are affected by the unfortunate global state of the economy now and we can, therefore, not move with the same speed to deliver some of the services that were envisaged.
Meanwhile, the citizens know exactly what our programmes are for effective service delivery. If we explain the situation and, therefore, say that we may not be able to live up to what is expected, we may find a challenging situation, more especially if we have some among us - as, of course, we do - who would like to see themselves either actively believing that they are going to co-govern with the government or running a shadow administration to put forward their own priorities. That is what is giving us challenges.
It takes an informed, positive-minded and readily available civil society for us to succeed on this journey. Is our civil society ready to create space for government to implement the principles of Batho Pele? I doubt it. So, before we ask such questions of the government - as to how far we are with the implementation of Batho Pele and how much the government has done to comply with the policy - we should check the contribution we are making as civil society.
We have had so many comments recently, as the nation is discussing the implementation of occupation-specific dispensations in the Public Service. We have had some people conveniently contradicting themselves. When it suits them, some will say that those public servants who are assigned to do essential services should not be allowed to strike and when it suits them for different reasons the same people will say that the situation is provocative and so they should be allowed to strike. That's a clear contradiction. I heard a supposedly responsible adult yesterday saying that the doctors in KwaZulu-Natal abandoned their work very responsibly. This was said by a person who is supposed to be a public representative and a leader: "abandoning their work responsibly". I'm not sure what that is. It is sad when such reckless comments are made by people, some of whom have taken an oath to defend the Republic, and when the government, in fact, is doing its best to address the situation. We say thanks to the Minister of Health because he dealt with a serious blow from such empty-minded individuals.
The Batho Pele principle on openness and transparency calls on us to ensure that citizens are told how national and provincial departments are run, how much they cost and who is in charge. There are further questions that may be associated with this principle, one of which being that citizens would like to be taken on board as to what the government should spend money on. Fair enough, but I repeat: it takes an informed, positive-minded and readily available civil society for us to succeed on this course. Is our civil society ready to create space for government to implement the principles of Batho Pele? I doubt it - not in our situation where ulterior motives sometimes influence people's thinking. But we are not giving up. That is why, as the ANC, we believe that mass mobilisation around priority programmes is the way to go. I committed the Ministry for the Public Service and Administration yesterday, and I do today, that by the end of this financial year we will have analysed obstacles in the implementation of Batho Pele and we'll communicate the way forward out of this situation.
The debate on a single Public Service should not frustrate any person or structure. Maybe what worries people is their having the wrong perception, that the debate is all about doing away with the concept of the three spheres and creating only one structure of government in the country. No, that is not correct; that is not the intention. The issue is that we want to strategically align the institutions that comprise the machinery of the developmental state, to complement each other so as to operate effectively and fulfil the needs of all South Africans in a seamless arrangement. Let us further engage on this subject at the different fora where the issue, from time to time, is located.
To conclude, allow me to confirm that we are going ahead to all the provinces in our campaign to strengthen the African Peer Review Governing Council and to respond to the nine issues that have been raised about us as a country by our peers on the continent. We have been to Gauteng, Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape.
During the month of July we will be in the following provinces debating the following issues: Limpopo - poverty and inequality; the Free State - land reform; the North West - racism; the Western Cape - diversity management; and in KwaZulu-Natal - HIV and Aids.
In August we will finalise the programme in the Eastern Cape, focusing our debate on unblocking service delivery. We need to stress that these are national issues and not just for provinces. We are not discussing them in the provinces because we think they are prevalent, but because we are using provinces as a forum to engage. At the end of this we are going to have a national consultative conference at which we are going to have a plenary to reflect on all these issues because they have been raised about us by other member states of the African Union that have acceded to the African Peer Review Mechanism.
The journey to an effective Public Service is not my journey alone. It is not his journey; it is not her journey, but ours. Let's participate. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Before I call on the next speaker, I would like to welcome the hon Khotso officially, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Council and the House. Where is he? You are welcome, sir. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, and his counterpart and hon members, the past decade and a half of a democratic South Africa has experienced numerous challenges in the Public Service. These challenges have been a hindrance to service delivery, especially to both national and provincial departments.
The current nature and form of the Public Service character falls short of addressing these challenges. In addition, the Public Service Act of 1994 has proved inadequate and needs to be reviewed. The current system in the Public Service has failed to address the following issues in the Public Service.
Firstly, there is a lack of provision for the deployment of staff where they are most needed. Secondly, some government functions are provided through national or provincial departments and are not close to the point of service delivery. The functionaries tasked with such deliveries operate without direct accountability or decision-making ability. On the other hand, some government functions are provided via entities outside the Public Service without direct control and influence by its political head.
Thirdly, the Public Service Act of 1994 and its prescripts are frequently not complied with, which results in weak organisational and human resource practices as well as legal disputes. Fourthly, employees dismissed from departments for any kind of misconduct, including misconduct involving corrupt acts, are often reappointed soon after their dismissal.
Fifthly, employees suspected of transgressions sometimes resign and are appointed in other departments without disciplinary steps being taken or instituted or continued for those transgressions. Lastly, some provisions of the Act have resulted in legal disputes while others are obsolete, overly complex or conflict with legislation.
We need to recognise that certain organisational and human resource practices in the current Public Service Act directly or indirectly obstruct service delivery. Currently, some government functions are provided by national or provincial departments away from the point of delivery and without direct accountability.
The introduction of the Public Service Bill, also known as the Public Administration Management Bill, will go a long way towards addressing the above-mentioned challenges. The preamble of the Bill recognises sections of the Constitution, including, amongst other sections, section 197(4):
Provincial governments are responsible for the recruitment, appointment, promotion, transfer and dismissal of members of the Public Service in their administrations within a framework of uniform norms and standards applying to the Public Service.
Another section, section 151(3), states:
A municipality has the right to govern, on its own initiative, the local government affairs of its community, subject to national and provincial legislation, as provided for in the Constitution.
And section 153 states:
A municipality must -
(a) structure and manage its administration and budgeting and planning processes to give priority to the basic needs of the community, and to promote the social and economic development of the community; and
(b) participate in national and provincial development programmes.
The exercise of legislative and executive authority for local government is regulated by the Constitution and three Acts, namely the Local Government: Municipal Demarcation Act, the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act, and the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act. These statutes deal comprehensively with local government, leaving a few issues relating to financial management, budgeting, borrowing, Treasury control, property rating and taxation to be covered by the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act and the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Act.
The Public Administration Management Bill has the following aims. It aims to improve staff mobility arrangements for the Public Service by allowing for the deployment of staff where they are most needed, but with due consideration of the circumstances of affected employees.
The Bill aims to introduce government agencies as a new institutional form to be accommodated within the Public Service to enable direct service delivery through a focused, ring-fenced, separate entity under the direct control of the Ministry. It also aims to enhance compliance with the Act through investigation and compulsory discipline of transgressors and reporting thereon.
The Public Administration Management Bill aims to enable the institution of disciplinary steps against employees for alleged transgressions at their former departments. It aims to introduce anticorruption measures to prohibit the re-employment of persons in the Public Service dismissed for specific kinds of misconduct, such as misconduct involving corrupt acts. The Bill also aims to address a number of legal difficulties arising from the day-to-day application of the Act as well as arbitrations and court cases.
Lastly, it aims to simplify the Public Service Act through streamlining several provisions, removing obsolete provisions and aligning the Act with other legislation in order to facilitate its application.
The Bill will impact on local government in the following ways. A single Public Service is deemed a massive undertaking designed to improve service delivery by integrating the front office, the back office and the institutions delivering service to the people. The initiative aims to integrate all spheres of government, which will allow citizens to receive government services as a whole in a convenient location, without having to travel far and wide. The progress made in the implementation of the Thusong centres initiatives is an indication of how this Bill will satisfy the demand for service delivery. There are at least 100 Thusong centres that have been built across the country, and they have been received in a good spirit.
The Bill further aims to harmonise the conditions of service across government so that it is able to work better. It will promote access to service and assist in instilling an ethos of people-centred service.
The Bill states that it proposes alignment, where appropriate, in recruitment and selection, remuneration and conditions of service, performance management and development, a competency framework, standards of ethics and misconduct, incapacity procedures, financial disclosure requirements, and procedures for the transfer, secondment and deployment across the full spectrum of national, provincial and local government.
The Bill will enhance our anticorruption initiative. It introduces anticorruption measures to prohibit the re-employment of persons in the Public Service dismissed for specific kinds of misconduct.
Some key amendments introduced by the Bill include the introduction of government components that will function as separate institutions within the Public Service, with their heads serving as accounting officers in terms of the Public Finance Management Act.
The Bill respects the powers vested by the Constitution in municipalities, particularly in their power to appoint, direct and dismiss their own employees. While the Bill does contain provisions that, in carefully circumscribed circumstances, enable the Minister for the Public Service and Administration to set limits in terms of conditions of employment, these provisions do not compromise or impede municipalities in exercising their rights or performing the functions conferred on them by the Constitution.
It must be remembered that we inherited a fragmented Public Service which served our people according to the colour of their skin. The so-called experienced and skilled public servants, who were not comfortable with the new dispensation, left and established consultancies which continued misleading our institutions because they didn't understand our transformation agenda.
Our intention and approach to a single Public Service will assist in having a co-ordinated bargaining approach, which will hopefully minimise the looming labour action. This approach, informed by the Batho Pele principles, should be understood within the context of nation-building and promoting allegiance to one unitary South Africa, where poverty, unemployment and lack of shelter will be a thing of the past and where our people will live in peace and prosperity. We support the Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Die afgelope paar dae en veral gister en vandag was dit vir my opvallend dat die partye hier in die Huis en in die komiteevergaderings almal baie bekommerd is oor die gehalte en volhoubaarheid van dienslewering. Ek gaan my toespits op dienslewering deur munisipaliteite, omdat ek daarvan ondervinding het.
As ons kyk na al die stelsels, besigheidsplanne, ens, dan glo ek die stelsel moet geloof en geprys word. Die GOP, IDP, begrotings van die verskillende rade en SDIP as 'n kontrolemeganisme laat dit blyk asof alles net met hierdie groot en effektiewe ondersteuningsdienste moet gebeur.
Daar is amptenare en bestuurders wat baie bekwaam voorkom, en salarisse verdien wat sterk kompeteer met poste in die private sektor, maar waar bestuurders aan groter risiko's blootgestel is. Ministers en amptenare doen verklarings en gee oplossings vir alle probleme en planne wat net voorspoed voorspel.
As jy egter na die radio luister, koerante lees, televisie kyk, of net jou eie omgewing rondom jou waarneem, dan besef jy dat rens is daar 'n groot fout. Daar is strate met gate en spoelslote waarvoor jy 'n vier-by-vier nodig het. Inwoners kla dat hul watertoevoer en kragtoevoer baie onbetroubaar is en onderbrekings kom gereeld voor. In sommige woonbuurte vloei menslike afval in die strate af. In sommige gebiede is daar geen of baie swak diens, terwyl daar ander gebiede is waar dit goed gaan. Wat is dan die fout?
Ek wil hier saamstem met President Zuma dat openbare ampsdraers en almal in uitvoerende posisies, harder sal moet werk met die doel om beter diens te lewer. Ek moet ook met die President saamstem waar hy in 'n televisie- onderhoud ges het: "The problem is in implementation".
Sommige raadslede het nie die kapasiteit om hul werk te doen nie. Hulle woon elke moontlike funksie en kongres by maar geen terugvoering word gegee nie. Artikel 56- en 57-aanstellings verdien salarisse wat vir niks skrik nie. Hulle het almal prestasieverwante bonusse, maar ek het nog nie gesien dat enige van hulle minder as 100% kry nie.
As hulle oortree of bedrog pleeg, dan skik hulle met die betrokke raad, kry 'n goue handdruk en beweeg voort na die volgende een. Daar is nie enige skuldigbevindings teen so 'n persoon nie en nrens kan jy bespeur dat hy oortree het nie.
Vakbonde is baie goed georganiseerd en beskik oor uitstekende raadgewers wat baie goed in hul eie lede se belang optree, maar dienslewering benadeel. Arbeidswette is uiters noodsaaklik, maar vertraag dikwels produktiwiteit en effektiwiteit.
Daar word baie gepraat en geskryf oor een Staatsdiens en administrasie, met ander woorde, sentralisering, maar gaan hierdie groot, lywige departement doeltreffend wees? Die regering moet hier baie goeie navorsing doen voordat hulle so 'n stap neem.
Ek glo ons moet minder praat en meer doen en net twee woorde gebruik, dit is verantwoordelikheid en dissipline. As ons hierdie waardes gevestig kan kry, dan sal ons suksesvol wees. Ek glo daar is 'n wonderlike omgewing geskep om dienste van 'n ho gehalte te lewer, maar as daar nie dissipline en verantwoordelikheid toegepas word nie, dan gaan daar geen vordering wees nie. Besluite en optredes moet saakgerig wees en minder om eie belang gaan. Daar word eers besluite geneem om amptenare te bevoordeel en dan word die diens aan die bevolking gelewer. Batho Pele moet die wagwoord wees. Swak bestuur en dienslewering maak die armste van die armes die seerste. Hulle is nie in 'n posisie om vir hulself op te staan nie.
Ek wil dus 'n beroep doen op almal wat hier betrokke is, kom ons aanvaar die verantwoordelikheid, gebruik al die hulpmiddels en stelsels en lewer vyfsterdiens aan ons mense. Dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr J M G BEKKER: The past few days, and especially yesterday and today, I was struck by the fact that the parties here in the House and in the committee meetings have all been very concerned about the standard, quality and sustainability of service delivery. I will focus on service delivery by municipalities, because that is a field where I have some experience.
If we look at all the systems, business plans, etc, then I believe the system must be praised and commended. The IDP, or integrated development plan, the budgets of the various councils, the SDIP, service delivery improvement plan, as a control measure - everything looks as if great things are about to happen, with these great and effective support services in place.
There are officials and managers who appear to be very competent and whose salaries seriously compete with posts in the private sector, where managers are exposed to great risks. Ministers and officials make announcements and offer solutions to all problems and introduce plans that herald prosperity.
But, if you listen to the radio, read the newspapers or watch TV, or simply observe your own environment, then you realise something somewhere is seriously wrong. There are roads with potholes and ditches for which you need a four-by-four. Residents complain that their water and electricity supply is very unreliable, and breakdowns occur regularly. There are neighbourhoods where human waste runs down the streets. In some areas service delivery is non-existent or very poor, while others are doing well. So, what is the problem?
I want to concur with President Zuma's view that public office bearers and all incumbents in executive posts will have to work harder in order to deliver better services. I also have to agree with the President's statement in a television interview that "the problem is in the implementation".
Some councillors lack the capacity to do their work. They attend every possible function and congress, but they never supply any feedback. Article 56 and 57 appointments earn salaries second to none. All of them have performance-related bonuses, but I have never seen any of them receive anything less than one hundred percent.
If they transgress or commit fraud they settle with the council, get a golden handshake, and move on to the next one. There are no convictions against such persons, and it is impossible to detect that they have transgressed.
Trade unions are very well organised and have excellent consultants who act in their own members' interests, but they often impede productivity and effectiveness. Labour lawas are essential, but they often impede productivity and effectivity.
Much is being said and written about one single Public Service and administration, but will this huge, voluminous department be effective? In other words, will centralisation be effective? The government must do some serious research before taking such a step.
I believe we should talk less and do more, and we should use only two terms, namely responsibility and discipline. If we can get these values established, we will be successful. I believe a wonderful environment has been created to deliver services of a high standard, but unless discipline and responsible behaviour are enforced there will be no progress.
Decisions and actions should be determined by the task at hand, and not by self-interest. Decisions are taken firstly for the officials' benefit, and thereafter service is rendered to the population. The watchword should be Batho Pele. Poor management and poor service delivery hurt the poorest of the poor the most. They are in no position to stand up for themselves.
I therefore wish to appeal to everybody concerned: Let us take responsibility, let us use all the resources and systems, and let us deliver a five-star service to our people. Thank you. [Applause.]]
UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, Inhloko yoMnyango wakho, kanye nezikhulu zawo wonke ama-sections akho, Amalungu Ahloniphekile ale Ndlu. Ngqongqoshe ngithi angikubongele ukuthi unikezwe umsebenzi omkhulu wesizwe ukuba ubheke yonke iMinyango kahulumeni waleli lizwe.
Uma ubheka iMinyango kahulumeni wakuleli lizwe, ngithi angikukhumbuze Ngqongqoshe ukuthi kunalezi zinto ezibizwa ngokuthi ngama-Chapter Nine Institutions akhiwa uMthethosisekelo wezwe ukuthi asebenze ngokuzimela - independent. Kodwa ngithi ukuzimela kuhamba kube nama-limitation kulo lonke izwe ngoba uma singathi ngoba bazimele ngakho-ke awungeni lapho ukuthi ubheke, ngoba ngumsebenzi woMnyango wakho ukuthi ubheke ukuthi bonke abantu abaqashwayo kuwo wonke lawa ma-Chapter Nine Institution ukuthi bafanelekile yini kulowo msebenzi. Ngoba uma nizowayeka kube wuthela wayeka nje nami njengoZulu ngizisebenzele njengomumzi wami - kusho ukuthi i-mandate le enayinikezwa ngabantu ngomhla- ka 22 ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Prince M M M ZULU: Chairperson, hon Minister, the director-general of your department, officials of all the sections in your department, and hon members of this House, I want to congratulate the hon Minister on being given such a huge responsibility of monitoring all the departments of this government.
If you look at the departments of this government, I want to remind you, hon Minister, that there are these structures that are known as Chapter 9 institutions which were created in accordance with the Constitution of the country to work independently. But, I am saying that independence has its limits throughout the country. We cannot say that because they are independent you should oversee their performance. It is the task of your department to see to it that everybody who is employed in these Chapter 9 institutions is qualified to do the job.
If you are going to allow them to do as they please - if I, as Prince Zulu, were to operate like I do at my place - that would mean that the mandate you received from the people on 22 April ...]
... is questionable.
Ngoba nibhekele bona abantu bakithi eNingizimu Afrika ukuba wonke lawa ma- state organs ayayilandela yini imithetho nemitheshwana yelizwe.
Ngithi ngisheshise nje ngikuhalalisele ephusheni lakho lokuthi zonke izifundiswa zakithi noma lokhu okuthiwa phecelezi ama-graduates asefundile nizoba nama-data base ukuthi niqoqe bonke abantu ukuthi bathole imisebenzi bakwazi ukusebenza. Ngith-ke kulelo phupho lakho ngikufisela inhlanhla Ngqongqoshe kuloMnyango wakho sengathi ungakubhekisisa lokho.
Ngiphinde ngibuye futhi ngithi Ngqongqoshe, kunomasipala, omasipala akusho ukuthi bazimele kuleli lizwe - akukho Federal State ekhona kuleli lizwe. Uma ingekho-ke i-Fedaral State, ngizocela-ke futhi ukuthi nomasipala ubabhekisise ngoba kuneZinhloko ZeMinyango ezikhona ezingasebenzi ngendlela ekuyiyona yona kubo bonke ikakhulukazi la bomasipala basemakhaya uthola ukuthi bakwazi ukushaya imithetho ngaphezu kwamakhansela namkhansela nawo abesabe.
Kodwa-ke uMnyango wakho ngiyacabanga ukuthi bayowesaba kakhulu ngoba uyobe ubhekene ngqo nabo kanye nokubheka ukuthi kuhamba kanjani ukuze lokhu okuthiwa 'ubuntu/botho' okhuluma ngakho kwenze ukuthi abantu bazuze kuzo zonke lezi zinkalo zakithi kuleli lizwe. Ngibonge kakhulu, Mphathisihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Because you act on behalf of the people of South Africa to see to it that all these state organs follow the laws and regulations of this country.
I wish to congratulate you in anticipation of your dream of establishing a database for all the graduates so that every one will be able to find work. I am, therefore, saying that I wish you well in this department and good luck, hon Minister; may you succeed in this venture.
Hon Minister, I also wish to say that there are municipalities which are not independent in this country. There is no federal state in this country. As there is no federal state, I would like to request you to monitor the municipalities too, because there are heads of departments who are not operating properly in all municipalities, especially in the rural municipalities. They impose laws on the councillors and some councillors are scared of them.
But, I think that they will be too scared of your department because it will be directly focusing on them by monitoring what we call "ubuntu botho" that you referred to so that everybody in every locality of this country could benefit. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]]
Mutshamaxitulu, Holobye Mudondolofana, Ncila-va-ololi na Yindlu, ndzi yimile haleno namuntlha ku ta ndhundhuzela ndzawulo ya n'wina hilaha mi nga tirha hakona. Loko ingaku eka 15 wa malembe lama nga hundza a va mi thole kwalaho. Swilo leswi hi nga swi twa namuntlha hi leswi Congress of the People, Cope, yi nga yimela swona. Mi te kahle eka "Batho Pele". A ndzi lava ku mi vutisa leswaku loko mi ku "Batho Pele" - Vanhu ku Sungula; mi sungula hi vanhu loko ku tirhiwa - mi vula yini? Eka malembe ya 15 lama nga hundza, xana mfumo lowu nga kona a wu nga swi voni swilo leswi ke, leswi swi nga lo tshama swi vekiwa? Leswi mi nge mi ya sungula hi ndlela leyi ya matirhelo, hi lava leswaku Cope yi va na n'wina kwalaho.
Nakambe, mi vulavule hi Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, mi ku, "it's the way to go." Leswi hi leswi hi tshamaka hi vulavula hi swona eka Cope. Ha tivutisa leswaku xana mfumo lowu wu endla yini. Loko mi swi vonile, hi ta mi seketela mi yisa ntirho lowu emahlweni.
Xin'wana lexi ndzi lavaka ku xi vutisa i "internship". Loko vanhu lava nga tokota va thoriwa - ndzi twile loko mi vulavula eka Ngula ya Vutivi tolo nimadyambu eka SABC. Mi ndzi tsakise ngopfu loko mi kote ku hlamusela tiko leswaku ... i Holobye loyi a nga koteki ku tumbeta swilo a tlhela a vulavula ntiyiso hinkwawo wa leswaku u ta tirha hi ndlela yihi. Ndzi lava ku tiva kuri eka "internship" mi na vanhu vangani lava nga dyondzisiwa no tokotisiwa leswaku loko va wu kumile ntokoto va ta kota ku thoriwa va nghena eka mfumo?
Ndzi vona nakambe eka "strategic planning" xa n'wina leswaku mi na tiposo ta 112. Poso ya Chief Financial Officer yi na malembe manharhu yi nga se tatiwa. Xana ku humelela yini hi yona. Xana letin'wana ta 111 leti nga sala tona ti ya thola rini? A ndzi lava ku tiva ku xana eka tindzawulo hinkwato, tanihi leswi mi nga vutihlamuleri eka tindzawulo hinkwato, ku na tiposo tingani leti to ka ti nga se tatiwaka nakona ti na malembe mangani? Hi lava ku tiva leswaku hi ta kota ku fambisana na n'wina kahle.
Ndzi twa ndzi tsake ngopfu hikuva ndzi yima hi leswi Puresidente Zuma a nga vula swona. Ndzi ta hlaya hi ririmi ra vadyanhlampfi. (Translation of Xitsonga paragraphs follows.)
[Mr M W MAKHUBELA: Chairperson, Minister Mudondolofana, Ncila-va-ololi and the House, I am standing before you to praise the way in which your department performed. I wish you were had been employed in that position 15 years ago! What we heard today is what the Congress of the People, Cope, stands for. It is good that you made mention of Batho Pele. I want to ask you: When you say "Batho Pele", or "People First" and you give preference to the people when you serve, what do you mean? For the past 15 years, hasn't the previous government realised all these things as the work is still lying unattended to? Since you are saying you want to start working in this way, we want Cope to be with you in that regard.
Once more, you talked about the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama, and you said, "It is the way to go." This is what we are always talking about in Cope. We ask ourselves what this government is doing. Having seen it, we will support you to more this work forward. One other thing that I want to ask about is the internship programmes. When experienced people are employed ... I heard it when you were talking on Ngula ya Vutivi yesterday evening on SABC. You made me so happy when you were able to explain to the nation that ... it is the Minister who is unable to hide things and once more tell the whole truth as to how he will perform the work. I want to know how many people have been trained and empowered through internship programmes so that, once they are experienced, they can be employed in government?
I see again in your strategic planning that you have 112 posts. The chief financial officer post has not been filled for three years. What is happening in that regard? When will the outstanding 111 posts be filled? Since you are responsible for all the departments, I want to know how many posts are still vacant in all the departments and for how many years have they been vacant? We want to know so that we can be on par with you.
I feel so happy because I stand by what President Zuma said. I will say it in English.]
President Zuma made it clear that the Public Service must respond to the economic downturn by spending public funds wisely and fruitfully.
Loko ndzi lava ku mi hlamusela kahle, ndzi ta teka xikombiso xo olova. A ndzi lava ku mi hlamusela leswaku swi dya mali yo tala swilo leswi. [Nkarhi wu herile.] [Phokotela.] [Va phokotela.] [If I want to be explicit, I will give a simple example. I want to say that these things waste a lot of money. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Thank you to the Chairperson and the Minister for a good presentation that indeed spoke to the needs of the people, and thank you to the Minister for bringing us his counterpart Minister from the Democratic Republic of Congo. It shows that indeed the African Peer Review Mechanism will move.
The Minister has indeed given us a budget that shows a sterling effort within the required attributes of a developmental state. Indeed, you were confirming a requirement that the Polokwane resolution said we must come and fulfil because, underlying that, your presentation is a transformation of public administration and service, and a modernising of it because it has indeed inherited, through the sunset clause, what the father of the gentleman from the DA was saying.
His father was here for 40 years. He created some of these things. Because of the sunset clause, some of them were comfortable with some of these attributes, but now, through your agenda and programme, we will be in a position to remove some of them.
The budget of the Minister will turn the tide on the problems and binding constraints that the state has. In the developmental state, when we say the developmental state will meet the objectives of governance, it is when the Public Service's attitude has been geared towards the transformation agenda. Currently, we are working with some elements which would want to make the ANC government appear corrupt, when it has to do with elements of the transformation of mental attitudes to the manifesto of the ruling party. As such, we need to overhaul this administrative system. We thank the Minister because the programme of his budget will speak to that without failure.
The other element which the Minister's presentation has given to us is the fact that this budget - Budget Vote No 9 - as we said, is a developmental state budget. It will not only speak to issues of Batho Pele, but is also going to speak to issues of departmental activities which were inherited and became an obstacle in the Ministry, hence the problem with the occupation-specific dispensation. It is this Ministry that began to engage hands-on with OSD issues, and we hope that things will be done. Of course, this is not just hope: As the select committee we are prepared to engage and work with the Ministry. If needs be, as the Minister moves from province to province, an invitation can be extended to the House so that we are able to come and make sure that we oversee those things.
While the presentation is good for us as the select committee, there are certain nocturnal areas that need to be scrutinised. They are dark and need bright light to shine on them from your plans to make sure that interventions are made in those areas.
For example, we have the issue of norms and standards. I think they go beyond the Batho Pele principles. It was once said that they would be in a position to dictate daily to those who are working in the Ministries across the spheres, in the parastatals and entities, how they should respond to the people out there. Norms and standards will again empower the people to make sure that they are held accountable when certain things are not done in the process of giving services to the people.
I think that area needs to be clarified and unpacked within the broad context of Batho Pele principles. But, on a daily basis, what is it that must be done when I go to the office and find a counter clerk not responding to these elements? We therefore need that type of scrutiny. It is important that the department look into that. The other issue is that of whistle-blowers. We give them toll-free numbers every time, and they indeed blow the whistle. They are holding red cards against their seniors; mostly, they are juniors. After red-carding their seniors, they are then dismissed from work. What is it that the department is doing to protect these people? Security is not a privilege; it is a right.
Therefore, from a junior to whomever, everyone must enjoy the security of the Ministry and the department so that they are not victimised simply because they are doing their duty. In that way, whistle-blowing is essentially the protection of the taxpayers' money and of the people's property. The government, departments, municipalities and everything are the people's property and we therefore need a mechanism that will ensure how these people are protected.
On the issue of a single Public Service, I think we will await the process so that we can make an input. In fact, we can't keep on singing about something which we know is there. We are just waiting for that time because, procedurally speaking, when we say things will come, we don't mean now; we mean there will be plans, input, drafts and all sorts of things. But it must be speeded up; it has to. You have spoken well about Batho Pele. Some of us are educated enough to go beyond knowing all those things as concepts. Now we also understand the attitude within every aspect of Batho Pele.
However, I would want the department and the House to look into this bureaucracy. I think this is a concept we inherited through the sunset clause. We need to move and create our own concept, that of "revocrats". I understand this to be revolutionary managers in a revolutionary government and Parliament. "Revocracy" says that people must go according to the ruling party's manifesto. People must change every day and must understand change as ongoing and not static.
Bureaucracy is like a tortoise: you have to break it to change it. If you don't, it will remain like that. We, therefore, need to check whether or not, as part of the summit, we can come up with a concept that will make a logical impression with the administrative understanding of the politics of the ruling party. It's very important.
The other element that we need to look into with my friend and leader Comrade Nzimande - and he has always acted on this - is the issue of job access. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Thank you very much, Chairperson. I wish I could donate two minutes of my time to the chairperson of the select committee. Let me, as I close the debate on the Budget Vote, thank hon members for their inputs. As I have indicated, it is our joint responsibility to make sure that this Public Service is what we want it to be. All the things that have been said here are relevant and very important. We commit ourselves to following that up. I may not touch them individually and say yes to this one and no to that one. No is no answer to any of the things that have been said. I fully agree with all of those, and we shall take care of the situation.
As a response to all speakers, I have a one-size-fits-all comment. Thank you for what you have said.
With regard to the issues around revocrats and bureaucrats, we raised a challenge - and we shall actually put it here - and we committed ourselves to revisiting the instrument of recruitment. We are not only going to revisit the instrument of recruitment, but we shall also define merit in South African terms. If you do not have a number of factors that merit a person suitable for an appointment, you may find yourself missing the point.
I have indicated and requested the Public Service Commission and also instructed my department to work on an instrument. When I introduced this to them, I indicated that this recruitment tool must be modelled around the ruling party's document Eye of a Needle. This will prevent people from claiming that they can be appointed public servants, because not all of them will actually be equal to the task. That is why we have challenges. That is why departments are not spending their money at the end of the day.
Financial management is a serious issue. We are looking into that. There are people in deployment and appointment posts who, instead of working, play and politicise their deployment. When action is taken against them, they say they are being purged. We want to deal with that.
Relevance, in terms of understanding policies, honestly speaking, is one of the things that needs to be practised. You cannot give a person a Bible in a shebeen, ask them to preach and expect that they will talk to the contents of that Bible. The two can't mix.
Thank you very much in terms of what has been said.
Hon Makhubela, Mugwena, loko hi ku hi ta vuya eka tiko hi fika hi kombisa leswaku xana leswi swi hi sirhelelaka ku simeka tipholisi ta hina hi swihi. [Hon Makhubela, Mugwena, when we say we will come back to the nation we will outline what the things are that serve as the guiding principles in implementing our policies.]
We need to look into these things. For instance, there is nothing that can be identified as an anomaly in the Public Service that does not have a policy to address it. We just need to find out why the people are failing to implement things.
You spoke of 112 vacancies. We can have that as a subject on its own. One of our commitments - I indicated that when I mentioned that we shall come up with a Sita turnaround strategy by July - is to find ways of dealing with our record management system, Persal. Sometimes vacancies that are said to be available do not tally with the figures. These are some of the things we are going to investigate. We shall come back and address you after that exercise. We shall be able to say how many vacancies are available, where they are located and why they are not filled. If officials confirm that the personnel record system does not tally with what is actually reflected, then we shall investigate. Those are the things that are very important.
Thank you, Mr Burgess, for saying that you feel proud to belong in South Africa. The ANC says South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. It is for that reason that I'm thanking you for recognising that. But that recognition should be accompanied by a commitment for all of us to soil our hands and contribute to the betterment of the lives of the people of South Africa.
We have taken a decision because you might have seen that we can't afford a situation in which the relationship between ourselves, as a caring employer, as government and labour is antagonistic. We engage one another. We are not engaging one another out of choice, but we do it because we have taken a decision to establish collective bargaining processes, and through those structures we'll be able to find peace with one another. That is exactly what we are doing. That is why it was possible, within a short space of time, to agree as an employer together with labour that we would set a deadline for 30 June 2009 to resolve all occupation-specific- dispensation-related questions. We will come back and announce progress early next week because we are still assessing. But, rest assured, we are on board. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon members, tomorrow our sitting will start at 12:00 to consider Budget Vote No 2 and again at 14:30 in the afternoon for the other Budget Votes.
Debate concluded.