Deputy Chair, let me first welcome all the new members. It's my first time in this House since the NCOP was formed after the elections.
I have a bit of difficulty with the questions, and let me explain why. Four of the questions - one from the Chief Whip, the hon Ntwanambi, two questions from the hon Tau and one question from the hon Harris - all presume that the structures of the planning commission are already in place, and they aren't. The position right now is that a Green Paper was published and it is being considered as we speak by an ad hoc committee of the National Assembly. They will be holding hearings on it this week. Initially Parliament had asked them to conclude their work by 22 October; clearly they haven't been able to do so. They have requested an extension, and these matters will have to be resolved before Parliament rises.
In saying that the matters must be resolved, from here the work will require us to receive the initial report from that ad hoc committee, which clearly will deal with some of the issues about structure and operations of the National Planning Commission. We will then go back and publish our responses and thereafter it will be possible to start the work of establishing the institution.
Chances are that we will only be able to advertise all these positions early in the new year and then probably only get the institution up and running by March next year. Until such time we receive the report from the ad hoc committee, it would be, in my opinion, incorrect to presume what will come from the committee. This is because if the submissions that I've seen - and I've seen about 30 submissions that have gone to the committee - are supported by detailed presentations from the institutions that have made them, then it is almost inevitable that there will be some recommendations that deal with structure and operations.
So, against that backdrop, it's not that I'm reluctant to answer the questions. I think that members will understand that it would be quite incorrect to try and anticipate what the committee will deal with when in fact the Green Paper, as it says on page 5, is a consultative document. Consultations are now being done on behalf of the Presidency by the ad hoc committee in the National Assembly, and we must allow that process to continue rather than try to short-circuit it. I plead that members understand the circumstances within which I take the position that I do. If this is approved, then I can deal with the one remaining question. Thank you.
UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEBHUNGA: Siyaxolisa Mpthathiswa. Mhlawumbi sicinga ukuba singxame kakhulu, sifuna ukude sibone umohluko phakathi kwangoku nan gokuya. Kodwa eyona nto ibalulekileyo njengokuba uthethile ngento yeGreen Paper, kukuba ungayijonga na into yokuba laa Ndlu ingaphaya ayizi kuyishiya le, ukuze le nkqubo ihambe ngokufanayo? Ndiyayiqonda into yokuba i-NCOP ilandela emva, kodwa ingashiywa ngasemva, kananjalo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows)
[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Minister, we apologise. Perhaps we are in a big hurry because we want to see the difference between now and then. But, the most important thing is, as you have spoken about the Green Paper, whether you can see to it that the other august House will concur with this one, in order to have uniformity within this process? I understand that the NCOP is the second House, but that doesn't mean it must necessarily be left behind.]
The decision has been taken, and I am concerned about it because it's quite important that Parliament be heard. The National Assembly ad hoc committee only deals with a part of Parliament. But I think we have to resolve these issues. So, I will talk to the hon Ntwanambi and you, Deputy Chair, later, and see how we can take these issues forward. But we will try and resolve this. I think that we must recognise that it's a limping approach to Parliament; Parliament is defined as both Houses in the Constitution. Thank you.
Deputy Chair, I'm very happy that the Minister has clarified this issue. It's very senior members of this House who have asked these questions. The Minister is 100% correct that the structure is still in the Green Paper. Thank you very much for that political schooling, Minister. Thank you very much.
Order! Hon Bloem, what is your question?
Minister, my question is: Do you agree with me that this is still in the process of a Green Paper? [Laughter.]
As a democrat, I am compelled to answer a follow-up question. Yes, it is a Green Paper.
If I have your permission and that of the House, Deputy Chair, may I ask that the question by the hon Mokgoro remain and then I can deal with it later.
I think it's important that we allow the process to continue so that we can understand how the National Planning Commission will work. Amongst the outputs that we will have to deal with are those that the hon Shiceka covered earlier. There must be an alignment between the national plan, the provincial growth and development strategies and the integrated development plans, IDPs. This becomes a fundamentally important task because I have a sense that - and I'm sure that the hon Shiceka wouldn't necessarily agree with me - the IDPs are developed with the full participation of people. They then get taken away by ward committees, where the people who have participated don't actually know which of their ideas have been accepted, as there's very little communication. When budgets are drawn up, they tend not to look at the IDPs, and then the people think that the councillors have done something wrong.
The way in which we engender participation with these matters is something we must consider, because in the Constitution and certainly in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, Act 44 of 2003, where participatory democracy is defined, I think we have a lot of learning to do. But the bigger challenge is getting alignment between these three sets of outputs; that's important going forward. For now we have to allow the institutions to be developed as per the Green Paper and in terms of the recommendations that will come from the ad hoc committee.
The one issue of concern - and the hon Mokgoro asks about provincial planning commissions and so on - is that we will have a plethora of planning committees and commissions everywhere that won't talk to each other. The President was, in fact, quite forthright when he said:
We deliver the state of the nation address, and the premiers and the mayors come. Then they rush back to deliver the state of the province addresses and state of the village addresses, the speeches for which have already been drafted. So, it isn't their part of the state of the nation, it's just something that's done.
We've lived through this. We've lived through RDP, where everybody had RDP offices, and we have lived through other things where everybody had, for example, HIV/Aids offices, gender offices, BEE offices and Asgisa offices. I want to communicate through the hon Mokgoro that we should in fact try and limit the enthusiasm with which we establish these bodies because we don't want to construct the Tower of Babel. We need a single set of messages about a single plan. Our task is to align. The more offices there are, the greater the risk of misalignment. This I think is something we have to work on. It's something that we are communicating to the premiers as well, but I think we must all take the message forward because we all have some constituency responsibilities and people ask us about this. Thank you very much.
Assessment of challenges facing people with disabilities in accessing the job market and in the workplace, particularly the Public Service
48. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities:
Whether her department or the government has undertaken any assessment in respect of challenges facing people with disabilities in (a) accessing the job market and (b) the workplace, particularly in the Public Service; if not, why not; if so, (i) what are the relevant details and (ii) how does her department plan to intervene?