Hon Speaker, hon member, there is no contradiction between faster ...
Mr Speaker?
Yes, hon member?
I beg your pardon, Mr President. Mr Speaker, you allowed only two supplementary questions on that last question, namely question 10.
There is only one on my list. I do not have any other questions.
There obviously is an error in the system, sir, because the hon Mubu did indicate that he wished to ask a question.
Well, there probably is something wrong with the ...
Mr Speaker, I have no doubt that the hon President would love to answer a question from the DA.
No, I'm sure he loves answering all the questions, and I know you like to listen to all the answers. But I'm just talking about the machine this time around, that there is a problem here. Hon member ...
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Mr President. I would like to find out how you reconcile the South African government's support for the Sudanese government with the fact that President al-Bashir has a warrant of arrest for human rights abuses from the International Criminal Court in The Hague hanging over his head. Secondly, I believe that you have invited all heads of state in Africa to the Fifa World Cup next month. I want to know, Mr President, if President al-Bashir comes here, is he going to be arrested in view of the fact there is this warrant of arrest and that South Africa is a signatory to the International Criminal Court in The Hague? [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, South Africa respects international law and we certainly are signatories, and we abide by the law. Secondly, we reconcile our participation in the process - whilst the leader of that country has the warrant of arrest issued against him - on the basis of the African Union's decision.
The AU took a very deliberate decision and requested the International Criminal Court to postpone the action against al-Bashir, given the fact that we were dealing with a situation of violence, and that, if it acted immediately, we could reverse the situation in Sudan. That was done collectively by the African leaders, and the message was sent, and it was correct to do so, because our view was that, if we did that, that situation could have become worse.
That is what the AU said. It did not say we must not arrest al-Bashir. It looked at the situation and felt that it was necessary to move cautiously on this matter. That is what we have done, and that is why we are reconciling the two points. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon President. Hon members, it looks like the system I have been relying on is a bit faulty. Are there any other supplementary questions that I did not recognise? The last supplementary question will go to you, sir.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr President, I just want to follow up on the second part of my question. You have invited all presidents on the continent to the Fifa World Cup. If al-Bashir comes to South Africa, will you arrest him or not? [Interjections.]
Hon members, order! Order! Hon members, please allow the President to be heard. Hon members, including hon Ellis, please. Order!
Hon Speaker, in my response, that is the first thing that I answered. I answered very clearly that South Africa respects the international law, and that answers the question.
Order! The President will now respond to question 11.
Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon member, there is no contradiction between faster land reform and the consistent application of the law. Government has recognised that the land reform programmes implemented to date have not been entirely sustainable. They have not provided the anticipated socioeconomic benefits to all the recipients of the programmes.
Among other things, this is the result of institutional weaknesses in overall land management policy and legislation. As a result, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform embarked on the development of a Green Paper on agrarian transformation, rural development and land reform, which is currently being finalised for submission to Cabinet.
The Green Paper is intended to culminate in a new land policy framework and an omnibus of legislation which should be a consolidation of all land- related laws. While we are in the process of developing legislation linked to the Green Paper process, it is imperative that we find immediate mechanisms to respond to the plight of farmworkers and farm dwellers.
We will soon introduce a land tenure Bill which will repeal the Extension of Security of Tenure Act and the Land Reform (Labour Tenants) Act. This Bill will be informed by the following objectives: to protect the relative rights of farmworkers, farm dwellers and landowners; to strengthen the rights of farm dwellers; and to enhance food security through sustained production discipline.
Any new legislation will be developed in line with the Constitution, and will follow the normal Cabinet and parliamentary processes. I reiterate that the pursuit of a sustainable and accelerated approach to land reform will be carried out within the ambit of the law, and we should still be able to do it faster. I thank you, hon Speaker.
Hon Speaker, hon President, in a recent court ruling on a case brought to the Land Claims Court by FCL Farming, it was stated, and I quote:
There is a disturbing, if not alarming, number of applications being brought to the Land Claims Court against the Minister of Agriculture and Land Affairs, the Chief Land Claims Commissioner and the regional land claims commissioners as respondents. These applications follow an all-too- familiar and unfortunate pattern. They are prompted because of the failure on the part of the commission and regional land claims commissioners to comply with orders of the court, with agreements entered into with landowners, and with orders for contempt of court.
This is clearly not within the ambit of the law. What will you do about these institutional failings that are holding land reform and reclamation back?
Thank you, hon Speaker. I'm certain that what I said does take that into account. That is why I said that the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform was working on these matters. I'm sure that those kinds of court appearances and decisions must say to the Minister that there is something that needs to be put right here. That is why he is working on the matter. I'm certain that that will happen.
There are a lot of problems with this matter. It is not just a one-sided problem. Commissioners in different places have been taking decisions. Some people heard very late that they needed to apply, etc. So there are many, many other things regarding this matter.
I'm saying that the Minister is working to look at everything so that we can have an approach that will be less difficult to deal with, in order to correct things that have not necessarily gone very well on this matter. That is why we said that the Minister was working on this and he is going to put it through the proper channels, as a conclusion of the Green Paper that has been put forward with regard to these matters. Thank you.
I thank the hon President. Hon members, the system is a bit faulty, but I will ask the table staff to help me identify two more supplementary questions.
Thank you, hon Speaker, and thank you, hon President. Land is a finite resource and is escalating in value all over the world. There is, incidentally, no such thing as an inflated market value; market value is market value.
The landless issue can only properly be addressed by budgeting adequately and ensuring that land beneficiaries are using the land productively with the necessary post-settlement and extension services, not by nationalising land or imploding the value of the land.
Will your government protect the right to own property, and what steps will you take to ensure that the land transformation agenda will ensure increased productivity and combat institutional weaknesses that result in wasted money on court cases?
Speaker, there has been no attempt to undermine the rights of those who own property; I don't remember any. I think that there were measures that were taken into account. Indeed, since 1994, these processes have been moving. Gaps have been found; weaknesses have been found. This is what we are trying to correct. I don't think there is an attempt to undermine the rights of those who own land.
What we have been trying to do is determine how we deal with the land so that citizens of this country are all able to benefit from the land - all of them - ... [Applause.] ... in a manner which is within the context of the law. We have emphasised this. The process that I talked about, that the Minister is working on, is not attempting to undermine the rights. It is actually attempting to streamline the manner in which we deal with this question. I don't think anything has gone wrong. Thank you.
Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon President, thank you for the response you have given to the House. I believe that information is power.
Hon President, with regard to the envisaged legislative reform, including the Green Paper to be tabled by the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform in due course pertaining to rural development, what is the government doing to assist farm dwellers, especially victims of evictions, landowners who are unable to produce from their land, and the beneficiaries of the land reform and restitution programme? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, those matters are addressed by the process that the Minister is involved in. I'm sure that at the end of that process, those aspects will be answered. The Minister is specifically dealing with those issues, including land that has been given back to the rightful owners - land that was productive before it was handed over, but became unproductive after it was handed over. Those are matters that the Minister is addressing. I'm sure we will have lasting solutions to these matters. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon President, regarding the Green Paper, we all understand it and are waiting in anticipation, and we are happy about it.
As regards the court cases, there are 19 cases already against the department because they have not paid the landowners. There are 21 cases pending in court at the moment with the same problem. We are not asking about the Green Paper, but about the process in court at the moment in which the department does not adhere to court cases. What are you going to do about that?
Does the department not respond to those cases?
Speaker, yes. Mr President, they don't adhere to the rulings of the court cases.
Oh, they don't adhere to the rulings of the court cases? [Interjections.]
Well, I don't know the facts. I'm sure one would check that as to what the issue is. I don't know the facts about the respondent to the issues. As far as I remember, court matters take time. But I will check as to whether the department is not responding to those specific issues. I think that the issue that you were referring to is where courts have given judgment against the department. Is that what you are referring to?
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
We will check on that. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, hon President. The President will check, and there will be a written response. Hon members, the last question which was asked by the hon Ramatlakane has been withdrawn.
Why?
You better ask him why. We know why, but you had better ask him yourself. [Laughter.] Hon members, that concludes Questions to the President and I wish to thank the hon President. [Applause.]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.