Hon members, I wish to remind you that, after the debates on the Second Reading of this Bill and the next two Bills previously on the Order Paper, the decisions on the Second Reading of the Bills were postponed. Are there any objections to the South African Citizenship Amendment Bill being read a second time? Declarations of vote:
Madam Deputy Speaker, on 16 September this year, during the debate on the same Bill in this House, I made it clear that the Minister has misled this House and the public. An alarming amendment to section 6 of the Citizenship Act allows for citizens to be deprived of their citizenship because of their engagement in a war that the government does not support.
Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: There is no way that the member made it clear that the hon Minister had misled the House. I think he must withdraw that, because that's a very serious statement to make about an hon member. [Interjections.]
She did mislead the House.
The member will continue. We will review and come back to that.
Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The previous speaker got up and said that that was a serious matter. This is a serious matter, this is a serious House and I take exception to the hon Minister telling me to shut up. [Interjections.] I take exception to the hon Minister telling me to shut up and I'd like her to withdraw that.
Hon members ...
Madam Deputy Speaker, I never uttered such words. I have never spoken to that person in my life. [Laughter.]
Hon Trollip, are you saying that the Minister said you must shut up?
That is precisely what I am saying, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I am now saying that the hon Minister has spoken to me before in her life. [Laughter.]
Can we allow the member to continue?
Madam Deputy Speaker, this section applies to all citizens, not only naturalised citizens. All citizens will be rendered stateless if the current Bill goes through as is. The Minister asserted here and in the media that this applies only to naturalised citizens. We are opposed to that as it is not true.
If we pass this Bill, we will be in contempt of section 20 of the Constitution. The right to citizenship can be limited, but certainly not by arbitrary decisions of the Minister.
The DA's legal opinion tells us that this Bill cannot withstand constitutional scrutiny. The Minister has been reported as now acknowledging that the proposed amendments did not sufficiently articulate the Bill's intention. She undertook to table a proposal in this Parliament. It would be very pleasing if you, hon Minister, did so and the DA will support that proposal if you bring it forward.
However, it is important to note that this Bill, as it stands, is highly likely to be unconstitutional, and can have life-changing impacts. Even the Minister, in the statements that she has made publicly, agrees with us regarding the Bill. You know where you spoke, Minister, when you said: This Bill has implications and it needs to be brought much closer.
In addition, this Bill proposes that children who are born to parents who are foreigners will qualify for naturalisation when they turn 18. This will have very serious implications for their education and the DA proposes that these children should qualify for naturalisation at least at the age of 16. I so move. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Speaker, section 3(3) of chapter 1 of the Constitution empowers this House to formulate legislation pertinent to the acquisition, loss and reacquisition of citizenship. In considering the Bill, which was debated at the last sitting of this House, a number of pertinent issues were discussed in the process of formulating the Bill into its current state.
I would remind the House that clause 6(b) of the Bill empowers any citizen who has lost his or her citizenship to appeal to the Minister in order to reinstate such citizenship that has been revoked.
The other issues that have also been mentioned here by the previous speaker have been discussed and debated at length in the said Bill that is before us. Our submission as the ANC is that we proceed with the Bill as it stands. Thank you. [Applause.]
Division demanded.
The House divided:
AYES - 207: Abram, S; Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Bhengu , N R; Bhengu, P; Bikani, F C; Booi, M S; Borman, G M; Botha, Y R; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Carrim, Y I; Cebekhulu, R N; Cele, M A ; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Coleman, E M; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini-Zuma, N C; Dlulane , B N; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Dunjwa, M L; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Gololo , C L; Gona, M F; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Hanekom , D A; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S-B; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekane, C D; Kenye, T E; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kubayi, M T; Landers, L T; Lebenya- Ntanzi, S P; Lekgetho , G; Line, H; Lishivha, T E; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabuza, M C; Madikizela- Mandela, N W; Madlala, N M; Mafolo, M V; Magagula, V V; Magama, H T; Magau, K R; Magazi , M N; Magubane, E; Makasi, X C; Makhuba, H N; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Malale, M I; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Mandela, Z M D; Mangena, M S; Manuel , T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashatile, P; Mashigo, R J; Mashishi, A C; Masilo, J M; Masutha, T M; Mathebe, D H; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Mayende-Sibiya, N A; Maziya, M; Mbili, M E; Mdaka, M N; Mdakane, M R; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlambo, E M; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mncwango, M A; Mnisi, N A; Mohale, M C; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M A; Motshekga, M S; Mphahlele, L M; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Msweli, H S; Mthethwa, E M; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mushwana, F F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndabandaba, L B G; Ndabeni , S T; Ndlanzi, A Z; Nelson, W J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, W; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhlengethwa , D G; Njikelana, S J; Nonkonyana, M; November, N T; Ntapane, S Z; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, Z C; N'wamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D ; Nyalungu, R E; Nyanda, M F; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, G G; Padayachie, R L; Pandor, G N M; Petersen-Maduna, P; Phaahla, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilusa-Mosoane, M E; Radebe, G S; Radebe, J T; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Saal, G; Schneemann, G D; Segale-Diswai, M J; Selau, G J; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibhidla, N N; Singh, N; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, K P; Skosana, J J; Skosana, M B; Smith, P F; Smith, V G; Snell, G T; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Suka , L; Sulliman, E M; Sunduza, T B; Surty, M E; Thibedi, J D; Thobejane, S G; Tinto, B; Tobias, T V; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Tsotetsi, D R; Turok, B ; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van der Merwe, S C; van Rooyen, D D; van Wyk, A; Xaba, P P; Yengeni, L E; Zondi, K M; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 81: Bosman , L L; Botha, T; Carter, D; Coetzee, T W; Davidson, I O; De Freitas, M S F; Dexter, P D; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Du Toit, N D; Ellis, M J; Figlan, A M; Gcume, N P; George, M E; Greyling, L W; Harris, T; James, W G; Kalyan, S V; Kganare, D A; Kilian, J D; Kloppers-Lourens, J C; Kohler-Barnard, D; Krumbock, G R; Lamoela, H; Lee, T D; Lekota, M G P; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; MacKenzie, G D; Madisha, W M; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Max, L; Maynier, D J; Mbhele, P D; McGluwa, J; Michael, N W A; Mnguni, P B; Mnqasela, M; More, E; Morgan, G R; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Ndude, H N; Ngonyama, L S; Nhanha, M A; Njobe, M A A; Ntshiqela, P; Ollis, I M; Paulse, S; Pretorius, P J C; Rabie, P J; Rabotapi, M W; Ramatlakane , L ; Robinson, D; Rwexana, S P; Schafer, D A; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Smalle, J F; Smiles, D C; Smuts, M; Steele, M H; Steyn, A; Steyn, A C; Stubbe, D; Swart , M; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Tolo, L J; Trollip, RAP; Van Dalen, P; Van de Linde, J J; Van den Berg, N J; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk , S M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Vukuza-Linda, N Y; Waters, M; Wenger, M.
ABSTAIN - 2: Dikobo, K J; Holomisa, B H.
Question agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a second time.