The SA Police Service, also known as the force, is not mandated to procure new office accommodation and does not deal with the procurement policies and tender requirements thereof as this is the responsibility of the Department of Public Works. The SAPS identifies its accommodation needs by means of a needs assessment and then takes that to the Department of Public Works. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, following your reply to the question, it has been reported in various media outlets that Gen Cele was involved in the initial negotiations of that very same building with someone who is very close to the ruling party, a person by the name of Shabangu. Now we have seen the abrupt resignation of Gen Hlela and Gen Siwundla, as well as Gen Strydom. Has this got to do with this issue - in fact, the question has been raised by the committee itself - of the same corruption that has been reported, which is going to be investigated imminently by the Special Investigating Unit? Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Well, hon member, the resignations you referred to are resignations. I want us to see them that way. But, regarding your specific question related to the Special Investigating Unit it is the Ministry and the Department of Police which actually approached the Presidency, because some of the things related to what the committee raised, as you've said and even before that, were by and large to do with supply-chain management. So, that process is ongoing. I do not want to refer to the specific names you referred to, but the people you referred to have resigned. Thank you very much.
Ngiyabonga Sekela Somlomo. Mhloniswa uma kuthiwa umuntu wasayina ethi omunye akazange asayine, iqiniso likuphi ngempela? [Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. If it is alleged that somebody has signed for something and in return the alleged culprit denies that accusation, who is really telling the truth?]
Hon Minister, did you hear the question?
Uma mhloniswa kuthiwa wasayina omunye ethi angizange ngisayine, ngubani okufuneka aphenye ngempela ukuthi lo wakwenza lokho, iqiniso likuphi ngempela kulokho?
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZAMAPHOYISA: Lunga elihloniphekile, angazi ukuthi kusayinwa ini baba. Kodwa-ke nami ngiyayifunda lento oyifunda emaphepheni. Engikwaziyo ukuthi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Hon Minister, if it is alleged that somebody signed for something and the alleged culprit in turn says they did not do it, who should, as a matter of fact, investigate whether the alleged culprit has really committed that crime - where does the truth really lie in that matter?
Hon member, I do not know what it is that has been signed, sir. However, I also read what you read in the newspapers. What I do know is ...]
... on the issue of procurement, the Department of Public Works is dealing with the matter because it belongs there. I have been informed by my colleague, the Minister of Public Works, that most of these procurements, across the board in government, have been frozen.
Mhlawumbe ukusayina kuyotholakala uma seliyoshona ilanga baba, angikakazi okwamanje. Siyabonga. [Maybe the signing story will be known towards the end, sir - but as of now, I know nothing. Thank you.]
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, more than any other department, the SAPS is expected to set a good example for all government departments by upholding the rule of law, which is their core function. It is therefore inexcusable for the police to violate Treasury regulations. Having heard what the hon Minister said about the resignation of the Deputy National Commissioner of Police, I still want to know whether the hon Minister will consider looking into the real reasons for the resignations, particularly because these resignations were made in the middle of the probe involving contracts totalling more than R4 billion in the department. Minister, there must be something that we need to know and would you please look into that. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZAMAPHOYISA: Sekela Somlomo, ubab' umfundisi ngabe uyasisiza nje asithandazele bakwethu, sibhekene nomsebenzi onzima. Cha, ngeke ngikwazi ukuwuphendula lowo mbuzo angibuza wona kodwa engikushoyo ukuthi umsebenzi wokubheka izinto ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF POLICE: Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon reverend should just assist us by praying for us good people as we are faced with this enormous task. No, I cannot answer the question he is asking but what I am saying is that the oversight functions ...]
... of checking and putting things where they are supposed to be within the police will continue. But I can't ask a member why he or she is resigning. I don't even want to go there. I don't wish to take that route. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, I want to say that at least the National Commissioner of Police had to complete a needs assessment, which he forwarded to the Department of Public Works. Now, my follow-up question is: Is there really a need for a second 18-storey building for police headquarters when you already utilise the present one? Is there really a need for that? Was it really a good assessment as far as that is concerned? At least you, as the Minister, must have known about this because R500 million is not a small amount. Thank you.
Hon member, there is no need for an 18-storey building. In fact, I do not even know where that comes from, because there is no such thing as an 18-storey building. The assessment and the needs of the police have always been raised.
Hon member, because you are a member of this committee, you should know better in that even last year the matter was raised of building headquarters for the police. That was supposed to be done as a public- private partnership option. I was told, after the assessment, that these headquarters would cost more than R4 billion. The new management then decided that if that continued, the first point of call would be the building of the police station rather than building those headquarters. Thank you very much.
Position regarding findings on how special courts aid and ensure universal access to justice 167. Mr M Gungubele (ANC) asked the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development:
Whether he has made any findings on how special courts like the Small Claims Court and equality courts aid and ensure universal access to justice; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?