Mr Speaker, the DA asks the National Assembly to nominate Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai as a member of the Human Rights Commission. Dr Baai is a PhD: Philosophy (Durham), who played a leading role in establishing ethics guidelines in the Public Service for more than a decade after the adoption of the final Constitution. He served as Director of Professional Ethics at the office of the Public Service Commission, the Chapter 10 institution. We would like to send him now to a Chapter 9 institution, the SA Human Rights Commission, SAHRC, where, in our view, his skills in developing the monitoring of the code - which he himself develop-and in research makes him a good choice for functions such as the Human Rights Commission's special constitutional duty of holding government's departments to account for the implementation of the socioeconomic rights. Among the many books that he authored and co-authored is a title called Snatching Bread from the Mouth of the Poor: Ethics and Corruption, which I rather think says it all.
May I say that Dr Baai struck me as a person of substance; human rights commissioners must be such persons. Their entire impact and effect on society rests on the moral authority they bring to bear, because they can make no binding orders, they are not a court of law. They command and exercise moral suasion - as the previous commission under Jody Kollapen, Leon Wessels, Karthy Govender and a few others so successfully did - they command moral suasion or nothing at all.
We therefore need Dr Baai. It is notable that a person specialising in ethics takes the place of a person who you were asked to appoint last year, until Cope drew to our attention, rather late in the day and moreover erroneously as to exact fact, that Adv Mpulwana, who was the subject of the motion we have just adopted, had been discharged from the employ of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, TRC.
Thanks to the intercession of a concerned citizen in the Eastern Cape, the true facts and the actual High Court judgment in the matter between the TRC vs Adv Mpulwana were provided to me, and therefore to the Portfolio Committee on Justice. We gave the appropriate opportunity for a hearing. We are bound, as is this House, by the unchallenged judgment of the High Court that the advocate by his nondisclosure of his employment at that time in the Eastern Cape Provincial Administration fraudulently misrepresented to the TRC his fitness and propriety.
May I use this opportunity, Sir, to urge party spokespersons to present shortlists for appointment to their caucuses well before the final decision needs ratification, because, although we are indebted to the hon Adams for raising the issue in however lacking a manner, it was brought very late. This is not the first time, in respect of a Chapter 9 institution, that inappropriate persons have in fact been selected when party caucus members, who had insight or experience, could have averted such choices. Unfortunately, it has happened before. In this case I imagine the hon Thozamile Botha may have had something to do with our colleague the hon Adams's warning, but it came only when we were asking the House to vote on a finally negotiated and agreed upon list. At least Cope has helped: in other cases, it was too late and the consequences which duly unfolded were unfortunately predictable.
So, we thank the House for the adoption of the previous motion for sending this back to us at Justice and we ask the House to vote for Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai. [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, to the hon Smuts, it was late but it worked. It is now common knowledge that Adv Mpumlwana was expelled by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, TRC, after a disciplinary inquiry and, therefore, we are now debating this new appointment of Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai today.
The ANC must be congratulated for not sweeping this under the carpet or covering it up. This is a good example, even late, where a debate in the House has played a positive role - a rare example. Let us all gathered here today realise that one's speech in a debate can make a difference. It happened in this case.
Honesty and integrity must always be the prerequisite if you want to be a custodian of human rights. It was wrong for the committee to appoint a wrong candidate at the beginning. I don't know why it happened. I was not part of that committee. Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai was, at that time, the correct candidate and still is now, in front of this House, the correct one.
The point is that the SA Human Rights Commission is not there to protect government or to declare their decisions invalid. It must promote and protect the human rights of ordinary people. Therefore, commissioners should be there with the right credentials, and not because they have the right political connections. Cope will support the appointment of Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai and we wish him well in this new job.
Mr Speaker, I think what had to be said has been said. I would just like to add a notation in my two minutes - that politics is an alternation between co-operation and competition. What we have seen in the Justice Committee - not just on this occasion, but even on prior occasions - is the prevalence of co-operation.
We started with candidates who were not consensus candidates, but controversial candidates. We have now completed this process with somebody who is a consensus candidate. I think a great deal of this is due to the wise leadership of hon Ramatlhodi who has created a climate in which like- minded people can work in the committee in the interest of the country, setting aside political differences.
The other thing which I think needs to be raised is that this is a decision that has just been made by Parliament, in Parliament, by the members of the committee. I think it is significant and bodes well for how similar processes can strengthen the supremacy of Parliament. Thank you.
Speaker, on a point of order: Taking into account the advice that hon Stofile gave to Peter de Villiers, isn't the member better speaking in Italian?
Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please, hon members, let us try to be serious from time to time. I know it is difficult to do it all the time, but at least from time to time.
Mr Speaker, hon members, the matter of filling the vacancies that has arisen at the SA Human Rights Commission should have been relative. Unfortunately, the committee discovered after it had conducted interviews and supported the nomination of Adv Mpumlwana that there were issues which had not been brought to its attention. The committee was obliged to reconsider the matter and, after careful consideration, the committee has withdrawn its support for that nominee.
A consideration of those persons previously interviewed has resulted in the committee recommending the nomination of Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai for the vacancy. The UDM supports the committee's report. Thank you.
Speaker, the ACDP also supports the recommendation that Dr Sandi Baai be recommended for appointment as a commissioner to the Human Rights Commission. He has a very impressive CV. He was involved in a lot of missionary work and played a leading role in promoting sound ethics in the Public Service Commission. He will undoubtedly add considerable value to the commission.
That having been said, the ACDP would also like to highlight the need for the appointment of additional commissioners to handle the ever-increasing load of the commission. Let us bear in mind that the ad hoc committee on the review of Chapter 9 institutions stated that "the appointment of only five commissioners to an institution with as broad a mandate as that of the Human Rights Commission is deeply problematic and wholly inadequate".
So, whilst there are additional part-time commissioners, the ACDP shares the view that at least two additional full-time commissioners should be appointed. We trust that the office on institutions supporting democracy as well as the Justice portfolio committee will look into this matter as a matter of urgency, considering that the ad hoc committee made its recommendation three years ago. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to extend my deep gratitude to members of my committee for their collaborative work, and I would also like to thank members particularly for working together in seeking to advance the interest of our people, which is in South Africa's national interest.
Criticism has been levelled against us, which I humbly accept. Even in our caucus, where we should have done a bit more research before we made the decision that we arrived at. In our caucus, I suggested that we could have just as easily googled it using modern technology and maybe found out that there were things that we needed to have known, which we didn't know.
What was fatal to the recommendation that we made earlier was the fact of nondisclosure. We did not get involved with the merits or demerits of the case. We were basically interested in disclosure because that had not happened. We felt that we did not have a choice but to recommend to this Parliament the withdrawal of the recommendation.
The ANC supports Dr S Baai, as the candidate who came out second best in our interviews. He is the son of Xhosa people from the Eastern Cape and a highly gifted intellectual. He comes from the poorest of the poor. He will bring all those skills and temperament into the job of Commissioner of the SA Human Rights Commission. He is highly recommended and I wish to use this opportunity to urge the House to support this candidate.
We are interested in ensuring that the Chapter 9 institutions are strengthened in whatever way possible. It is my view that we should not try and localise them only to ourselves as the Justice committee. If there are additional measures that can be taken by Parliament to reinforce our input into our capabilities of these Chapter 9 institutions - personally, I have no problem with it and I am very easy with that. For instance, the suggestion that came from Professor Asmal's recommendations, the involvement of the Deputy Speaker, in reinforcing the Chapter 9 institutions, makes a lot of sense to me. So, we should not hold on to boundaries as a leadership and say this belongs to me; that belongs to me. These institutions belong to Parliament and we must make sure that whatever additional resources we can put into them we should do without being led to failure. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the nomination of Dr Gladstone Sandi Baai for appointment as Commissioner on the South African Human Rights Commission be approved.
The Speaker announced that, due to the failure of the electronic voting system, the Whips would conduct a head count of members for the purpose of ascertaining support for the nomination.