Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Public servants have to manage their lives in order to balance public interests and private interests. This includes having interests in private businesses. This, of course, is mindful of policy and legislative positions that obtain at that moment.
I want to refer to two instances in this regard. Firstly, public servants are allowed to have interests in business, as long as they manage the potential conflict of interest through disclosure and recusal. Secondly, public servants are allowed to perform remunerative work outside of the Public Service. This is what we generally refer to as remunerated work outside public service, RWOPS.
We are in the process of reviewing this dispensation. Hence we have developed the framework on ethics and integrity to manage the following two behavioural questions: firstly, whether we should not ban public servants outright from having interests in business; and, secondly, whether we should not outlaw RWOPS, or performing of remunerative work outside public service, completely. These are not easy tasks. Hence we started the process of consultation.
This morning I had to address the portfolio committee in this regard. As we deal with these questions, we should deal with them mindful of the fact that these citizens of South Africa called, by their employment, public servants are, on the other hand, citizens who are entitled to particular rights.
We are looking at this and the possibility is that we might have to review some of the policy and legislative instruments that at the moment prescribe the conditions that obtain. I thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr Chairperson, in September 2008 the Auditor-General released a report on entities connected with government employees doing business with national departments. The Auditor-General revealed that more than 2 000 government officials were involved in corruption worth more that R610 million. A year later, in August 2009, Parliament debated a motion on this very matter, urging Minister Baloyi to take disciplinary action against those officials. Another year later there was still no action. In September 2010 the DA submitted a private member's Bill to restrict officials from doing business with their own firms.
Minister, while you are still consulting, the Western Cape Premier, Helen Zille, has signed into law the Western Cape Procurement (Business Interests of Employees) Act, restricting government employees with financial interests and entities from doing business with the provincial government. Now, the question is why Minister Baloyi has still not introduced a law to prevent government employees from doing business with their own firms?
Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. We took action regarding all those public servants who were involved in this as reported by the Auditor-General, AG. Statistics in regard to what we did, where, and to what extent, can be provided. If the hon member wanted me to respond and give an account of that, she should have framed the question otherwise and not talked about policy. There is a difference between talking about policy matters and giving an account of activities and what has been done. That has actually been done.
We addressed this issue of the private member's legislative proposal today. As we were addressing that, we gave an account of where we were. We addressed those issues. It is just that some people may be present physically in meetings but mentally outside. If that were not the case, the hon member would actually remember what we addressed and the portfolio committee noted.
We indicated that ours was a democracy that respected the separation of powers. It is for that reason that certain things are not possible. When we tabled a programme early in the year, we said we were going to consider a review of the Public Service Act. One of the things that we wanted to address was exactly this. We committed ourselves to it. The consultation that is going on means that we believe that we live in a democracy in which you give space for a democratic process to unfold.
I'm not sure if the DA government in the Western Cape lives in another world where they don't know what is referred to as consultation. I am the Minister for the Public Service and Administration and we are actually looking into the steps that were taken and the process that was followed in order to enact that part of the legislation, and we will definitely challenge it as far as that is concerned. We are not doing so because we are saying we don't have to address this.
I put two key questions that we want to address. In fact it is more than these two questions. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, we appreciate it that you did clarify the matter that is being discussed at the moment in the portfolio committee today, particularly the ethics and integrity framework. We therefore believe that there has been much progress in addressing the matter of the civil servants who do business with government.
Further to that, we would like you to clarify to the House the introduction of the declaration of interests register that you announced would be rolled out from the 23rd.
Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. We appreciate the position that the member has articulated. I want to indicate to all other hon members that there is an expression that goes: Swandla swa hlantswana. [Two hands wash each other.]
In that arrangement we say that in a true democratic dispensation, where you have the separation of powers, when one organ of state comes with a proposal, the other organ of state actively engages in the process. With that arrangement in mind, we thank the chair of the portfolio committee for the comment and we would like to invite all to come on board. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, thank you very much. Hon Minister, there is no gainsaying that government employees who do business and have interests with government can cause a serious conflict of interest. I think this was stated by my colleague hon Dreyer and stated in the Auditor-General's report.
Hon Minister, do you have a timeframe within which this policy that you are talking about can be presented to the House? This is a transversal matter and I think it is something that needs to be reported to the House when we have this kind of policy that will prevent them from doing business with government. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Hon Chairperson, in managing conflicts of interest we are saying that we need to come with a dispensation that addresses a potential conflict of interest rather than waits for a conflict of interest to occur. That is why we are saying we need to confront this reality.
Are we satisfied with having our public servants being active in business and in providing services as public servants? The question is that we need to confront this reality so that we prevent the possibility that they may do business, and even do business with government itself.
The timeframe is this. Within this financial year we are looking at coming up with the dispensation. That is why this consultation is taking place and we would like to conclude that soon. Thank you very much, hon Chair.
Scope of the term "decent work"; and position of NPC regarding decreased labour market regulations
85. The Leader of the Opposition asked the Minister in the Presidency - National Planning Commission:
(1) What does the term "decent work" include as referred to in its diagnostic document and elements of the vision statement for 2030;
(2) why has the National Planning Committee, NPC, identified the creation of decent work as a key issue to be included in its vision statement, rather than simply focusing on job creation;
(3) whether, in light of the NPC's finding that South Africa's labour regulations have negative unintended consequences, the NPC intends to investigate a labour regime of decreasing labour market regulations as a means of stimulating employment; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?