Agb Adjunkspeaker, die VF Plus wil die Suid- Afrikaanse Polisiediens gelukwens met die veldtog wat hulle geloods het gedurende die vakansietydperk in veral Desember verlede jaar. Hulle benadering dat hulle roekelose en nalatige bestuurders vasgevat het, het vrugte afgewerp om te verseker dat vakansiegangers en motoriste veiliger op ons paaie is. Waardering word uitgespreek vir die opofferings van hierdie lede in die feestyd.
Daar is egter met kommer kennis geneem van die insident waarby die agb lid Winnie Madikizela-Mandela in hierdie tydperk betrokke was. Die feit dat haar motorbestuurder na bewering roekeloos en nalatig bestuur het deur teen 150 kilometer per uur deur die verkeer te vleg, is betreurenswaardig. Die verdere beweerde optrede van die agb lid strek die eer van die Parlement en van haar kollegas tot oneer en is 'n verleentheid.
'n Parlementslid moet ten alle tye 'n voorbeeld aan die kiesers stel. Die beweerde optrede van die agb lid sou getuig van arrogansie en 'n meerderwaardige gevoel dat sy verhewe is bo die reg. Ander motoriste in soortgelyke situasies sou summier weens dwarsboming van die gereg gearresteer word.
Die verdere gevolge van die insident, dat lede van die polisie daarna geskors is en selfs gevra is om die ... [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD (FF Plus): Hon Deputy Speaker, the FF Plus would like to congratulate the SA Police Service on the campaign they launched during the holiday period, particularly in December. Their approach of tackling reckless and negligent drivers paid dividends by ensuring increased safety for the holidaymakers and motorists on our roads. We express appreciation for the sacrifices made by these members during the festive season.
We did, however, note with concern the incident involving the hon member Winnie Madikizela-Mandela during this period. The fact that her driver is alleged to have been driving recklessly and negligently by winding his way through traffic at 150 km per hour, is deplorable. The further alleged actions by the hon member do Parliament and her colleagues no credit and are an embarrassment.
A Member of Parliament should at all times set an example to the electorate. The alleged actions by the hon member would bear witness to arrogance and a feeling of superiority that places her above the law. Other motorists in similar situations would be arrested summarily for defeating the ends of justice.
The further consequences of the incident, with members of the police being suspended and even asked to ... [Interjections.]]
There's a point of order, hon member.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to object to the statement. The reference to a Member of Parliament has to be done by way of a substantive motion. The hon member ought to know that that is the procedure; the Chair has decided on it in the past. Therefore, I object to the contents of the statement.
Agb Adjunkspeaker, as die agb lid net sy ore was en mooi luister na wat ek s en my net die geleentheid gee om my lidverklaring klaar te maak, dan kan hy sy beswaar indien. So ek vra dat ek net klaarmaak en dan kan hy besluit of hy 'n beswaar wil indien.
Ek s die verdere gevolge van die insident dat lede van die polisie daarna ... [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Speaker, if the hon member would just wash his ears and listen carefully to what I'm saying and just afford me an opportunity to make my member's statement, then he can object. So I am just asking that I be allowed to finish, after which he can decide whether to raise an objection.
I was saying that the further consequences of the incident, with members of the police subsequently ... [Interjections.]]
The member is still on his feet. Can we hear the member?
Actually, I was on my feet, so he must sit down. [Laughter.]
You are not going to decide that for me. You sit down.
No, I listen to the Deputy Speaker. I don't listen to you, only to him.
Do you still have a point of order?
Yes, Deputy Speaker, I put a point of order in relation to the fact that you cannot refer to a member of this House without doing so by way of a substantive motion. That is what the Rules provide. The hon member is reflecting on the character of a member of this particular House by not doing so by way of a substantive motion. Therefore, he is out of order and should not, with respect, be allowed to proceed with the statement; whether or not he washes his ears.
Agb Adjunkspeaker, kan ek u toespreek? Ek vra nie 'n sensuur op die agb lid nie. Ek praat van beweerde stellings. As ek verder na my lidverklaring toe gaan, dan s ek in my lidverklaring dat ek die agb Minister van Polisie gevra het om 'n behoorlike ondersoek in te stel oor die aangeleentheid en om daardie bevindinge van daardie ondersoek openbaar te maak, want dit is vir die mense van Suid-Afrika nodig om te weet of hulle vertroue in die polisie kan h. Dit is ook in belang van die lede van die polisie.
Ek vra die agb Minister dus om dit wat ek hom reeds versoek het, af te handel sodat ons na hierdie Huis kan terugkom en ek dan kan voorstel dat ons 'n debat daaroor voer. Dit is nie bevorderlik vir die bekamping van misdaad indien 'n agb lid van hierdie Huis optree soos die agb lid Winnie Madikizela-Mandela na bewering opgetree het nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I address you? I am not asking to censure the hon member. I am referring to alleged statements. Returning to my member's statement, I go on to say that I have asked the Minister of Police to launch a proper investigation into the matter and to make the findings of that investigation public, because it is necessary for the people of South Africa to know if they can place their trust in the police. This is also in the interests of the members of the police.
So I'm asking the hon Minister to finalise that which I have already requested him to do, so that we can return to this House and I can then propose that we debate the issue. It is not conducive to fighting crime if an hon member of this House acts in the manner in which the hon member Winnie Madikizela-Mandela is alleged to have acted.]
Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: May I ask under what Rule the hon Deputy Minister Surty is rising? I am not aware that the Rule that he is talking about exists. What Rule is he referring to?
I definitely understand the Rule of not pointing a finger at a member of the House without a substantive motion. Isn't that what he is saying?
No, I disagree, Madam Deputy Speaker. There is no such Rule that says that, and I would like to know what Rule he is quoting. One cannot refer to judges or anybody like that, but where does it say what he is saying? We do this in the House all the time. What Rule is he talking about?
Do you have a response, hon Surty?
Yes, I do have a response. With respect, hon Deputy Speaker, the Rule ought to be known to the hon member, which provides that you cannot reflect on the character or the dignity of a member of the House without doing so by way of a substantive motion. [Interjections.] I'm not obliged ...
Order, hon members!
I am not obliged to provide the exact detail, the exact section of the particular Rule. If the hon member wishes at all to have the specific Rule, I will provide it. However, could I draw the hon Deputy Speaker's attention to the fact that this House has decided on the matter in the past? In simple terms it means that I cannot refer to the hon member as a moron without basically moving a substantive motion indicating that he is indeed a moron; otherwise it would be discourteous and rude to do so.
Thank you, hon member ...
Madam Deputy Speaker ...
Agb Adjunkspeaker ... [Hon Deputy Speaker ...]
No, no, no, no, I will not allow a dialogue, please. I'm not going to allow ...
I don't want a dialogue with him; I'm addressing you, hon Deputy Speaker. May I address you on this point?
Agb Adjunkspeaker, ek tas nie die karakter aan van die agb lid nie. As die agb lid mooi luister, sal hy hoor ek s daar moet 'n ondersoek gedoen word. Dis wat ek vra. Ek s nie dit s so nie. Ek s, juis om haar integriteit en die integriteit van agb lede in hierdie Huis te beskerm, moet 'n behoorlike ondersoek plaasvind, so ek kan nie verstaan hoe die agb lid kan s ek s sy het 'n swak karakter nie. As hy dit weet, weet hy meer as wat ek weet. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Hon Deputy Speaker, I am not attacking the hon member's character. If the hon member would like to listen carefully, he will hear me saying that there has to be an investigation. That is what I am asking for. I am not saying it is so. I am saying, precisely in order to protect her integrity and that of the hon members of this House, there should be a proper investigation, so I don't understand how the hon member can say that I am saying that she has a poor character. If he knows that, he knows more than I do.]
Thank you very much, hon member. We want to conclude the statements. I take note of the point of order. I will look at it and then rule later.