Chairperson, the National Treasury is the custodian of the people's money and is located at the centre of the public financial system. It must ensure that our public finances are efficiently and effectively managed and, according to its strategic plan, must promote economic development, good governance, social progress and rising living standards and endeavour to advance economic growth, broad-based empowerment, the progressive realisation of human rights and the elimination of poverty.
There is no doubt that the National Treasury's job is difficult. It is difficult because government has forgotten that it doesn't have any money of its own. All the money belongs to the people and the people expect their money to deliver tangible results that will have a meaningful impact on their lives.
It is difficult because government's economic policy is not coherent and permits uncertainty over the possibility of nationalisation of mines, banks and other industries, expropriation without compensation and so-called broad-based economic empowerment that made billionaires out of a few and left the vast majority behind. Hon Mufamadi mentioned this perversity. In a closed, crony society, economic liberation is only for the very well- connected few.
The Democratic Alliance believes that economic liberation is for everyone and that an open-opportunity society can be achieved. To do this we must redress the structural defects inherited from the apartheid economy. The DA believes that we can build a path out of poverty and that government intervention is required to carve that pathway through the barriers to economic growth and development that constrain our hopes and the dreams of our people.
There is much debate about the lessons that have been learned from the great recession from which our economy is slowing recovering. Bob Garratt, who wrote The Fish Rots from the Head, suggests that one of the positives from the crisis is:
The final awakening in the public's mind that there is a strong possibility that those elected or selected to guide our organisations in the private and public sectors may not be very good at their job.
Our National Treasury is considered to be one of the best fiscal units in the world. This did not happen by accident. The previous Minister of Finance, Trevor Manuel, was a primary architect in building the institution as it exists today. It is therefore unthinkable that our government has not endorsed him as a candidate for Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund. South Africa has an opportunity right now to exercise its muscle as a new member of the Brazil, Russia, India and China, and South Africa grouping, Brics, to test the stated commitment of the International Monetary Fund, IMF, to reform and the commitment of the other Brics countries to issues concerning Africa.
An African appointment to the IMF can contribute significantly to our international financial relations and deepen our role in regional and international economic integration. There is no secret about the disjointed economic policy positions of the partners in the tripartite alliance.
The R16 million work of the International Panel on Growth is now a distant memory and we await output from the National Planning Commission and wonder how, or if, it will interface with the so-called New Growth Path. It has been suggested that our economy needs tighter fiscal policy and looser monetary policy. Government appears not to know what it wants and it is unclear whether the National Treasury inputs to economic policy are taken seriously, as evidenced by the youth wage subsidy that remains merely a proposal. The fastest-growing expenditure item in the national budget is on the public sector wage bill. This was responsible for the higher than expected deficit. Government's policy to directly create jobs itself is not sustainable.
The DA believes that government's excessive focus on the consumption side of the balance sheet crowds out opportunities to improve our productive capacity and constrains our future economic growth potential. The net result of the DA's alternative budget was a larger deficit than that of the national budget and we believe that an overly conservative stance in the budget process should be avoided, especially under global circumstances where economic recovery remains precarious and a double-dip recession remains possible in several developed economies.
One of the primary lessons of the great recession is that markets do not always self-correct and that asymmetrical information can have devastating consequences. We support the proposed shift to a twin-peaks approach to regulation that separates prudential and market conduct regulators and agree that the Reserve Bank is best placed to play the role of macroprudential supervisor.
We understand that the former Director-General of the National Treasury, Lesetja Kganyago, will be tasked with this function in his new position as Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank. The DA wishes him great success in his new role and would like to thank him for his outstanding performance at the National Treasury. We have no doubt that his successor, Lungisa Fuzile, will make us equally proud and we look forward to working with him.
The DA welcomes tender reform and the news that the tender default register is finally being updated so that tenderpreneurs who don't deliver can be excluded from the process and prevented from stealing more of the people's money. Steps should be taken to recover what has already been stolen.
The Auditor-General is a key institution to ensure that the public finances are properly accounted for. During my visit to the Auditor-General earlier this year as a member of the Standing Committee on the Auditor-General, it became clear that the financial model applicable to the Auditor-General doesn't work, and this compromises its ability to function effectively. In January 2011, R63,9 million was outstanding over 120 days in audit fees for municipalities alone. This compromises effective public financial management and the National Treasury should consider amending the funding model to ensure that the Auditor-General receives funds due to it before other appropriations are processed. This will ensure that the Auditor- General remains financially viable and can fulfil its constitutional mandate.
The promised review of the financial model applicable to state-owned enterprises remains outstanding. A private-sector investment into these entities would enhance their efficiency and provide capital for the establishment of a sovereign wealth fund that could be utilised to seed new industries, especially in the green economy.
We also await further detail on the long-awaited retirement fund reform and estimated costs of the proposed national health insurance scheme. We hope to see progress on this in the near future.
Pension funds need assurance that government will not break what is fixed and rather focus on fixing what is broken. Hardworking taxpayers need to know if they will be expected to pay even more for a new health care system when the current system is very expensive and barely functional.
The South African Revenue Service, Sars, perform the vital function of ensuring that government can fund its programmes by collecting tax revenues, ensuring tax compliance and providing a customs service to facilitate trade. Sars has again collected more taxation than was projected. This has been a recurring theme over several years, with one notable exception. Although we are grateful, the question that must come to mind is whether the projections are understated so that the result looks impressive or whether the financial forecasting behind the projections requires improvement. For Sars to accurately determine which revenue flows are temporary and which are permanent within the framework of our countercyclical fiscal policy, we need to understand why revenue collected exceeds expectation.
Although Sars has made significant progress in improving the "way we work", several problems remain. Sars has not been spared the scourge of fraud and corruption and this has resulted in substantial delays in the processing of value-added tax refunds. Although we agree that additional audits are necessary to ensure that fraudulent refunds are not processed, it is unfair to subject law-abiding taxpayers to delays that can place the viability of their business at risk. Sars needs to find a more efficient way of balancing the fraud risk with their obligation to provide quality customer service. I am impressed at the response from Sars in resolving enquiries that I have escalated to them from sometimes desperate taxpayers.
Whistle-blowers at Oliver Tambo International Airport recently highlighted widespread irregularities in the performance of customs inspections, which was either the result of corruption or lack of training. In either event, the situation is not acceptable and needs to be resolved.
The DA believes that access to development finance is a vital component in the construction of a pathway out of poverty in South Africa, in our region and further to the north. The Land Bank appears to have emerged from its near collapse at the hands of the incompetent and dishonest, some of whom, we are pleased to note, have been criminally prosecuted.
A crucial lesson for the Land Bank is that it must develop a more robust model that will support emerging farmers to ensure that our agricultural and rural development is stable and sustainable over the long term. The Development Bank of Southern Africa can play a far wider role in ensuring that regional development can assist in lifting our neighbours out of poverty and into markets for our goods and services. It must not become a cash cow for failing government programmes.
The Government Employees Pension Fund, underwritten by taxpayers, must not be a source of funds for risky so-called empowerment deals. The Public Investment Corporation's loan of billions to AfriSam, where capital and interest is only required to be serviced in 2015 and 2018, is a prime example. We trust that the newly appointed chief executive officer of the Public Investment Corporation, Elias Masilela, will manage the people's money in their best interests and ensure that the money works for them and not for the empowerment of the privileged few.
The DA is focused on the future and, although we do not believe that the national government policy programme will resolve our inherited problems of poverty and unemployment, we do believe that our National Treasury and Sars serve our country well. They have delivered on their mandates and will continue to outperform their counterparts. Thank you, your efforts are greatly appreciated. Thank you, Minister, for restraining the size of your delegation here today. Thank you, Chairperson.
By the same token we thank the hon member for thanking the Minister.
Hon Minister, you asked a very pertinent question when you addressed our standing committee last week. The question was, "How do we break the confidence barrier to get investors with cash to invest in our economy?" I'm going to try to answer this question by giving you my wish list.
Firstly, acknowledge policy mistakes and correct them. Let me explain. Although the economic recession is almost two years behind us, South Africa is in a fully fledged labour recession. According to Statistics South Africa's latest labour survey, there were 251 000 fewer workers in employment than in the last quarter of the recession. There were 1,2 million more people unemployed than in the last quarter of the recession. I accept that there is a dragging effect between economic recovery and jobs growth, but we can no longer ignore the negative effect of unwise labour legislation on jobs growth. Admit it and do something about it. It is clear that the private sector is in no hurry to rehire workers they have retrenched during the recession.
Secondly, we cannot allow the public sector to be the driver of employment and pay exorbitant salaries on top of that. The quarterly labour law survey shows that the community and social services sector, which is mostly government, created the most jobs. So the year-on-year improvement is entirely driven by government.
For government and state utilities to provide jobs is expensive to the taxpayers. Get the public wage bill under control, stop paying above- inflation wage hikes and do not allow the pressure on jobs growth to be loaded onto the public sector's shoulders alone.
Thirdly, break the perception that investors perceive government to be on the side of the trade unions. Not less than three government departments joined forces with the Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, in an effort to make it as difficult as possible for Walmart to invest in South Africa. Our President and Deputy President travel the world to invite new investors, but we act differently when they do arrive. At least, that is the perception.
Fourthly, recognise the importance of the role of agriculture. This sector can be a huge driver of jobs, but we need clarity on land claims and not conflicting messages. We have seen no real investment in this sector for the last 10 years and this does not augur well for business confidence.
Fifthly, make sure that we have a stable currency and try to avoid a volatile crash at all times. I was fortunate to listen to Professor Giorgio Romano Schute from Brazil speak on the topic "How to manage the exchange rate". It was a debate about Brazil. We all know that Brazil suffered and is still suffering from a capital inflow that is too high. That caused Brazil's currency to appreciate, inflation went up and private debt increased. Capital inflows can suddenly reverse and hit your economy hard - exactly what happened to them in 2008.
What did Brazil do? They increased international reserves at a huge cost to taxpayers in an effort to curb the appreciation of their currency. That led to public debt increasing to 7% of gross domestic product, GDP, in Brazil, inflation went up, interest rates went up to 12% and, once again, capital started to flow into Brazil.
In reacting to that, they took certain steps. They inter alia levied a 6% tax on all foreign financial transactions. It worked for one month, but in January to May this year inflows were back up again. Hon Minister, learn a lesson and stay away from trying to manipulate our currency. Do not get involved in any currency war. We cannot afford it.
Sixthly, keep inflation down. Inflation, whether you like it or not, is a tax on the poor. High inflation will have a huge impact on our capital investment programme. We need to see more savings coming from government. We must try - I know it's difficult; this is my wish list - to run a current account surplus. We need to save a portion of our resources earnings when the prices are good. And they are good now.
Seventhly, we must be committed to continued infrastructure investment. We must fix our roads and run efficient municipalities. We need to embrace a meritorious society balanced with empowerment, otherwise service delivery will not create a good level of confidence.
My eighth point is: Never, never compromise on the rule of law. I don't have time to debate that.
Ninthly, be champions for reconciliation at all levels - at the ruling party level, government level and opposition party level. Let us all actively fight racism in this country.
Before I make my final point, I want to quote from Tim Cohen's comment in yesterday's - Monday's - Business Day:
At the root of the world's current economic woes lies a terrible dilemma. Can democracy work as well during times of economic decline as it does during growth? And the answer to that lies in an imponderable: are our voters sensible, far-sighted and broad-minded enough to vote for fewer services or higher taxes in order to bring the national accounts into loose balance?
My final point is: Put pressure on the hon President to appoint more Pravin Gordhans to the Cabinet. Cope supports the Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
We are here to vote on the budget of the National Treasury, yet the debate which is engulfing us, prompted by the Minister, seems to be a debate on the entire state of the economy, service delivery and the entire range of government issues, even including the rule of law. Why is that the case? Perhaps there is a reason.
On all accounts, and there is consensus, the Treasury is conducting an extraordinary job. It's endowed with a group of skilful, dedicated government officials who are part of a noble tradition that they have kept up. But there is a dark lining to the silver cloud. The fact is that there is enormous continuous pressure on this group of people to do more and more. Their responsibilities spread across various departments to achieve certain government goals, like promoting employment and promoting black empowerment in all the respective line functions. Somehow there are expectations that the Treasury should enable them to achieve those goals. I wish to sound a word of warning and concern not to overburden the Treasury with what work because it can do the work, making it do the job of everyone else, because it will end up not working. Treasury is a unit which is working properly. It should remain limited to doing what its statutory mandate is - basically that of administrating money, developing budgets and making policy decision in a limited number of fields.
The most important of those fields, which reconnects with the broader macroeconomic debate, is fiscal policies. I, for one - and I've been on record saying this over and over again - think that there is a need for a comprehensive reconsideration of the tax system. We are paying too much tax, both at the corporate and the personal level. The combination of tax paid at corporate and personal level is among the highest in the world. If there is one thing that causes economic recession, or at least impairs economic progress and employment generation, it is the overburdening effect of the tax system.
The second decision Treasury makes at the policy level is what to put in the Budget and what to put outside the Budget. We are very concerned about - and we have said this on prior occasions - there being new indirect taxes which are outside the Budget. First and foremost there is the indirect form of taxation through tariffs to finance the building programme of Eskom. This seems to be a trend and it's a very dangerous trend because the poor pay more than the rich.
The other concern that is recurring, which is a fiscal decision and a policy decision made primarily by the Treasury, is about the debt. Effectively, the Treasury decides at any given time how much debt we can actually sustain. It feeds that information into the policy thinking of government, which then adjusts the government objectives to meet delivery targets which can be financed with the overall amount of money available, raised from debt and revenues. The difficulty is that there is no plan for the repayment of the debt. I accept the Minister's argument that nobody else has one. The entire world is moving in that direction. If we are going down, we are going down in good company.
In the last minute that is left to me, I wish to request the Minister to engage - not here, because there is no time and space, but in a different venue - in a serious discussion about the reform of the monetary system. This discussion is taking place in other countries, especially in the United States. It is the discussion of the age. We need to think of the possibility of looking for sound money to replace fiat money which taxes back the gains made by each generation, which takes the interest attached to their issuance. I hope we can have that debate seriously and not with the Minister dismissing what I put forward with wisecrack remarks. I hope they will not be made on those occasions.
The unemployment challenge, which has been raised here by some of the previous speakers, is a challenge which cuts across all the departments of state. The challenges we are facing are primarily focused on the issue of the productivity of the country.
The issue of the exchange rate is critical ... [Time expired.]
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Finance, officials from the department, and hon members, allow me to deal with and respond precisely to the issues that were raised by the hon Koornhof. I'm offering free Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet. I invite your attention as I'm going through my presentation.
The objective of the Asset and Liability Management Programme of the Treasury Budget Vote is to exercise shareholder oversight over these entities to ensure that they promote government's policy objectives while remaining financially sound institutions. The optimal allocation and use of financial resources and sound corporate governance in the state-owned entities through financial oversight in accordance with government policy is promoted by the State-owned Entity Financial Management and Governance subprogramme.
The Land Bank - a schedule 3(b) national government business enterprise - is an agricultural development finance institution whose mission is to support developing and resource-poor farmers by providing them with retail, wholesale, project and microfinance. As a specialist agricultural financier with a mandate to address agricultural and rural development in South Africa, the bank's aim is to improve the sector by providing the necessary support, especially for training and capacity-building of developmental farmers and the sustainability of the sector.
At its 52nd National Conference, the African National Congress resolved that greater resources must be devoted to the challenges of rural development, land reform and agrarian change, in particular to the mandate capacity and operations of institutions such as the Land Bank, in order to ensure that the state is able to provide directed credit and capital for investment in support of a transformed agricultural sector and rural economy.
At the ANC's third national general council meeting, matters related to rural development and agricultural support systems were discussed. It was agreed that these matters must be pursued with greater vigour and that the obstacles to progress must be enunciated and acted upon.
The Land Bank operates in the agricultural and agribusiness sectors and is regulated by the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Act of 2002, as well as the Public Finance Management Act. It is keen to resume the development component of its mandate, which is evident in the projects that are moving through the pipeline.
In the 2008-09 financial year the bank recorded a positive profit and received an unqualified audit report. This marked the beginning of a more stable period that is evidence of the turnaround strategy implemented by the incumbent board of directors and the new executive management. The strategy involved three phases: cleaning up, stabilisation and sustainability. It is currently working on the sustainability phase of the turnaround strategy, which should see the bank entrench its strategic position in the agricultural finance sector and pursue its mandate more robustly.
The bank made a profit of R379 million in 2009-10, compared to R168 million in 2008-09, and also received an unqualified audit report. The bank is also reviewing its pricing and funding models.
In the parliamentary speech made by Minister Patel in the debate on the state of the nation address in the National Assembly on 15 February 2011, he said, "Over the four years to 2014, our infrastructure expenditure estimates provide for more than a quarter trillion rand a year." This assertion by said Minister insinuates that money is not all we need. It also requires careful planning and execution to ensure that we achieve the largest number of jobs and promote economic sustainability. To give effect to this, national departments, state-owned enterprises and development finance institutions are beginning to work in a much more strategically co- ordinated way.
A key recent achievement was the diversification of investors to fund the growing loan book. In 2010-11 the bank launched the domestic medium-term note and secured additional loan capital of R1,1 billion, raised in bank bonds that are subscribed to by investors in the private sector.
In 2009 the National Treasury increased the guarantee to the bank from R1,5 billion to R3,5 billion to put it in good standing with existing and potential creditors. This guarantee is being reduced progressively through periodic cash injections into the bank, which will be continuously included until the R3,5 billion has been transferred.
In December 2009 and October 2010 the bank received R1 billion and R746 million as part of the recapitalisation programme, reducing the government guarantee to R1,8 billion. The recapitalisation funding for the Land Bank will end in 2011-12.
As the bank liquidity stabilises, it is in a position to embark on the next phase of its development plan, including addressing information technology, IT, deficiencies in procurement, payroll and banking; intensifying efforts to recover nonperforming loans and improve the balance sheet; managing an acceptable cost-to-income ratio; and implementing a divesting strategy on the land for development finance unit's portfolio.
Through the Fit for the Future Project the bank seeks to address operational efficiencies by reviewing the way its business is conducted. This allows the bank to respond competitively and in good time to business demands, as well as to optimise the use of its resources.
The main Land Bank Finance Programme provides long-term mortgage loans or fixed instalment loans for capital expenditure. It strives to be a provider of world-class agricultural financial services, with part of its mandate contributing to rural development and stability, social upliftment and job creation. Congratulations, hon Minister Gordhan.
The Land Bank's spending focus over the medium term will be on financing developing farmers. Over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period expenditure is expected to increase from R1,4 billion in 2010-11 to R1,8 billion in 2013-14, mainly driven by interest paid on funding liabilities.
The Development Bank of Southern Africa - the DBSA, as it is more generally known - is a schedule 2 major public entity which was reconstituted, in terms of the Development Bank of Southern Africa Act of 1997, as a development finance institution with the primary purpose of promoting sustainable economic development and growth, human resource development and institutional capacity-building. It does this by mobilising financial and other resources from national and international private and public sectors for sustainable development projects and programmes.
Given the scope of the development challenge, the DBSA aims to proactively broaden and deepen its development impact to support government in accelerating service delivery, job creation, integrated spatial development and regional integration. Over the medium term the DBSA's strategic goals are to catalyse, expand and enable delivery of basic and social services; to provide and build human and institutional capacity; to promote broad- based economic growth, job creation, efficiency, fixed capital formation, and regional integration; and to engender sustainability, internally and externally, in financial, environmental, institutional and social terms.
The DBSA has a total budget of R3,4 billion in 2010-11, which is used mainly in the Siyenza Manje and Vulindlela Academy programmes. Siyenza Manje improved the capacity of municipalities to mitigate performance constraints that hamper sustained service delivery. It entails focusing on unlocking and implementing mainly municipal infrastructure grants and assisting municipalities to improve their financial management.
We have a role to play as members of this committee to be responsible for ensuring that the communities we lead access the opportunities that exist in government. [Time expired.]
Chairperson, the ACDP commends the Minister and the National Treasury for prudently handling public finances during the past financial year. The South African Revenue Service, Sars, is also to be commended for collecting R2 billion more revenue than anticipated by 31 March this year.
While the economy is forecast to grow at 3,2% of the gross domestic product, GDP, for this year, much will depend upon the slowing economic growth in developed countries. We are, however, particularly encouraged that South Africa's first-quarter growth rate was 4,8%. However, weak United States job and house price data last week again sparked fears of a double-dip recession, particularly for developed countries.
However, Minister, the question is whether these are justified. Stock markets around the world are already reversing their gradual gains as economic growth slows. There is also the increased prospect that Greece may default on its debt, which could lead to a downturn in Europe, considering that European banks hold significant Greek debt. As we know, a sovereign default by a Euro member could undermine the viability of European banks, creating another banking and credit crisis such as the one caused by the subprime mortgages.
How, then, does South Africa compare? South Africa's situation is clearly different and is characterised by improving growth and tax revenues. We also do not have the sky-high public debt and negligible economic growth rates plaguing certain European countries. However, were a double-dip recession in the Euro areas to materialise, it will undoubtedly impact on emerging markets, including South Africa, due both to investor risk aversion as well as its impacting on exports to the European Union. We trust that this will not occur.
The question was posed in the committee as to what benefit accession to Brics will hold for South Africa. Hopefully, it will result in greater market access to Brics countries. We also look forward to seeing much more beneficiation of raw materials taking place. However, we need to be mindful that the Brics countries are also competitors for capital and resources required to drive growth and economic development.
It is crucial, then, for South Africa to position itself appropriately to benefit from capital flows and investor attention. The perception exists that South Africa is becoming less competitive as a place to establish and do business, while other African hubs such as Nigeria, Kenya and Angola are becoming increasingly easier to operate in. This, hon Minister, must be addressed to attract foreign direct investment, which is set to reach R150 billion in four years for Africa.
To conclude, the ACDP remains positive on our economic growth prospects. It is crucial that National Treasury works closely with other departments and the private sector to achieve job creation, economic growth and poverty reduction.
We wish to thank all the officials in the National Treasury, Sars and other state organs for their hard work and commitment.
Chairperson, the ANC is overcome with a deep sense of sadness on the sudden passing of the ANC stalwart, mama Albertina Sisulu. Ulale ngoxolo, mama. [Rest in peace, mother.]
Allow me to pay tribute to the continued support received from millions of honest taxpayers. Their contributions are reflected in the recovery of tax revenue this year. However, hon Minister, the ANC is concerned about tax and customs evasions. That remains a serious threat. In the same breath, we are not really looking at the bad side only. We also appreciate the working together of the police, the prosecuting authority, financial intelligence and Sars in ensuring that 200 taxpayers were convicted of fraud and tax evasion between September 2010 and February 2011.
The scars and the bruises inflicted by the apartheid system in our country cannot be ignored or forgotten. Indeed, we have forgiven, but the scars have caused an indelible mark. The majority of our people fail to understand the most important matters of our country due to poor literacy levels. Sars is perceived as a cruel and unfair institution. Due to this lack of knowledge, people fail to understand what their responsibility is towards Sars.
Without tax revenue, the government cannot do its job. The state needs our tax rands to fund social and economic programmes and to provide the public with goods and services, such as schools, universities, hospitals, clinics and roads, as well as defence and security.
The ANC acknowledges the hard work that has been done by Sars to turn around the culture of noncompliance into one of voluntary compliance and increasing the tax base, while reducing the cost of collection. Improved service delivery and more effective enforcement of tax legislation are two pillars of the Sars compliance strategy.
The ultimate goal is to reduce the tax gap, which is the difference between the tax collected and the tax due. The ANC calls on all parties to ensure that we educate our constituencies on the responsibilities and role of Sars, and also on companies to develop a culture of behavioural values. There is the saying, Nika uKhesara okuka Khesara. [Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.] So, we need to do so.
Sars, as an institution, is an important capacity for the building of an efficient and effective developmental state, envisaged by the ANC. Central to a developmental state is the capacity and ability to intervene in the economy, using the strategic policy and institutional levers at its disposal to effect the change.
The ANC's conceptualisation of a developmental state is:
It will guide national economic development and mobilise the domestic and foreign capital and other social partners to achieve the goal of ensuring that every South African, especially the poor, experience an improving quality of life.
Within this context, Sars has to play an important role in the mobilisation of the resources that will enable a developmental state to achieve its goals.
In conclusion, all citizens meet their commitment to democracy by obliging to pay their fair share of taxes as and when they fall due. This new morality symbolises a commitment to democratic governance to which every South African must voluntarily subscribe.
Revenue collection is a frontier which enables the ANC government to implement its programme of nation-building and to implement the agenda of a national democratic state within a developmental state. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 10.
Chairperson, comrade Minister, comrades and hon members, the APC affirms its support for this Budget Vote. We would also like to congratulate the new accounting officer, Mr Fuzile. We wish him well and hope that he will sustain and advance the cordial working relations between National Treasury and Parliament, especially those committees charged with oversight on compliance with the Public Financial Management Act, PFMA, and Treasury regulations.
Comrade Minister, the APC believes that the long-awaited and much-spoken- about amendments to the PFMA should happen sooner rather than later. This important tool or financial management has been in operation for years and it might be time to sum up experiences from its implementation.
On public-private partnership, we believe that there is a need to fast- track the development of government-wide policy, because the bruising encounter we had last week about the building of four new prisons for correctional services raised the question of the role of National Treasury and whether it is one of advocacy or an advisory one. We were left unconvinced that it was the appropriate approach, supported by the political and administrative leadership of correctional services.
We have just come from the local government elections and the immediate questions that the APC believe the National Treasury should be able to attend to are the issues around the grants that are given to municipalities. The issues include what mechanisms are in place to ensure that money is not just sent as a yearly routine, even though it is not spent, and also the oversight structure and capacities on financial expenditure.
As things stand, there is no consistency on the composition, powers and functions of municipal public accounts committees. Without capacity at municipal level to properly monitor financial expenditure, wastage, abuse, corruption and primitive accumulation will persist.
The APC wishes to salute you, comrade Minister, for consistently calling for responsibility in the management of public resources. The fight against the abuse, misuse, corruption and theft of public funds must be intensified. Corruption is counterrevolutionary. The call must be consistently made for the observance of a revolutionary morality.
Before I sit down, I think I would be amiss if I did not also acknowledge the good work done at the Land Bank, especially by the CEO, Mr Phakamani Hadebe. It's worthy of note that in the past the Land Bank was a constant visitor to the public accounts committee, but since he took over they are conspicuous in their absence.
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, our committee chairperson, members of the National Treasury, as well as my comrades and distinguished guests who are present, as we are all aware, the annual process of dealing with Budget Votes is a time when accountability is demanded and expected. In the tabling of Budget Votes, we seek to ensure that the votes that are being appropriated do, in fact, speak to the policy priorities and imperatives of the governing party.
In our consideration of the Budget Vote of the National Treasury we are unavoidably called upon to reflect on a wide array of subjects and perspectives. Our central question is: What sense are we to make of the complex interplay between more rapid economic growth and the challenges of eradicating poverty and creating jobs and decent work?
The political context in which the Budget Vote is delivered is necessary as a background. This vote of funds needs to provide an understanding of how the National Treasury is reversing past imbalances and creating a better life for all, using its vote of funds. However, the National Treasury is unique in that it also has the responsibility of the management of funds within the legislative and policy framework of government. The critical question at the completion of today's debate will be: Has this particular Vote given effect to what has been politically agreed to by the executive within the context of the mandate of the National Treasury?
This Vote, far from being an administrative one, is both a political and financial instrument to finance the government's programmes in the financial sector, among others. Therefore it should reflect outcome-centred public spending. This Vote must be measured against ANC policy and priorities. We are the governing party. Legislation, like budgets, reflects policy and this Budget Vote should likewise reflect this.
Allow me to pay attention firstly to the special pensions dispensation and secondly to the Financial Services Board, as catered for in Programme 7 of our National Treasury. The fight for a democratic South Africa led to many people sacrificing their lives, livelihoods and families. The Special Pensions Act was enacted in 1996 in order to address the plight of those who had made these sacrifices and in the process lost the opportunity to provide for their livelihood while in the pursuit of freedom and a just society. The challenges that have arisen in the application of this Act led to amendments which were introduced in 2008. Notwithstanding all these amendments, huge challenges remained.
In 2008, amendments - as we are all aware - made provision for surviving spouses or orphans of pensioners to receive a monthly pension in addition to the lump-sum payment previously received. The amended Act further provides for a funeral benefit to be paid to the families of deceased pensioners. It is trusted that this Bill is going to enhance this purpose and honour the intent and spirit of the interim constitution, which led to the enactment of the Special Pensions Act.
In examining Programme 7 of this Vote, which deals with the contributions of civil and military pensions to funds and other benefits, we are drawn to the objective of what this Budget Vote provided for in the previous financial year and the current financial year, which is the elimination of the backlog in implementing the Special Pensions Amendment Act of 2008 by the end of the financial year, March 2012. The programme calls for ensuring that the administration only deals with applications that are not older than three months, or is currently developing a policy to deal with applicants younger than 35 years of age who applied before the amendment. This is done by sending them letters, or what is referred to as "application packs", requesting them to reapply.
While we definitely welcome the reconfiguration within the Department of Defence, which more emphatically and correctly established the Military Veterans department, the National Treasury must move with the necessary speed to ensure that Programme 7 of the Budget Vote is carried out within the stipulated time. We are dealing with a very sensitive area. The dislocation of so many of our combatants during the integration phase has left all of us with major obligations in ensuring that we do truly respect the sacrifice that the nonstatutory forces made in liberating our country.
Our approach to this situation must continue to show how we value and treat our veterans as those who were prepared to serve. People like Solomon Mahlangu, and many more, made the supreme sacrifice in pursuit of a better future for all. We are now more than a decade into our democratic dispensation. This assignment is long overdue, hence our clarion call: "Mazilunge izinto Zamakhomanda." [Let the matters of the commanders be addressed.]
I turn to another sensitive matter that falls under the jurisdiction of this Budget Vote: the Financial Services Board, FSB. This Budget Vote addresses the FSB, but if we are to agree to the Vote, then we need to be frank about the challenges that must be addressed. The National Treasury has not been a bystander in this matter and has certainly exerted its influence in reforms of the retirement industry.
The absence of a statutory retirement fund means that workers' income in retirement comes from occupational schemes or individual savings arrangements. The coverage of occupational funds in South Africa is high relative to other countries of similar income level but, while coverage varies across sectors, households generally do not save adequately for retirement. As a result many low-income workers rely only on the old-age grant.
A key reason for the disparity in the coverage levels and savings rates is the lack of preservation. Workers often liquidate their savings when they leave a job rather than transfer them to a new fund. The viability of mandating preservation upon a change of job or in the event of divorce becomes a necessity.
The unification of administration in the absence of a statutory retirement fund leaves many workers relying on the state's old-age grant. Transformation in the savings industry requires careful regulation. We welcome the proposed changes to Regulation 28 of the Pensions Fund Act, which imposes limits on where funds can be invested. Retirement savings must be invested in a prudent manner that protects fund members, while promoting economic development.
We need to conclude the long and outstanding discussion, which often saw organised labour express reservations to the Pensions Fund Act. Currently, it does not cover public sector funds. Discussions on this matter really do need to be driven to conclusion, because the result could enhance our developmental programme substantially.
When it comes to the FSB, we need to express our unhappiness and the need for deep-seated reform. We are unhappy about the question of surpluses. Historically, this has been raised by organised labour and again we are witnessing the FSB not implementing the basic instructions of the standing committee.
We are told that the rightful holders of these surpluses cannot be found, yet we have been at pains to point out how this can be done. We are told that insurance companies cannot trace relevant beneficiaries. As African families, we are interconnected and live in interconnected communities. I think the FSB would go a long way by taking advantage of this reality. Clearly it is within this context that we need to debate the Financial Services Board.
I posed the question at the beginning and indeed this budget gives effect to our developmental mandate. As the ANC, we support Budget Vote No 10 on National Treasury (Sars). [Applause.]
The National Treasury and SA Revenue Service, Sars, have been instrumental in South Africa maintaining prudent fiscal and monetary positions.
Ons bedank die vorige direkteur-generaal, mnr Lesetja Kganyago, vir sy rol hierin, nie net deur sy bestuurstyl nie, maar ook deur sy kennis, vaardighede en begrip van die fiskale omgewing, ongeag die populistiese druk van links. [We would like to thank the former director-general, Mr Lesetja Kganyago, for his part in this, not only on account of his management style, but also because of his knowledge, skills and understanding of the fiscal environment, notwithstanding the populist pressure from the left.]
We wish him all the best in his new position at the South African Reserve Bank. In the same breath we must congratulate the new director-general, Mr Lungisa Fuzile, on his appointment. Be sure of the support from the DA - provided National Treasury maintains the current prudent and defensible policy directions.
Our economy is not isolated from global economic developments and turmoil. We must therefore keep on taking cognisance of how domestic and global developments and trends might impact on our economy and eventually its citizens, consumers and taxpayers, and what proactive corrective measures are to be taken to prevent catastrophes in our economy.
In this regard, we need to take a look at the current gross domestic product, GDP. Despite its moderate improvement, it's not even close to what is required to create 5 million jobs by 2020. Despite the New Growth Path jargon, we have not seen any substantial job creation. One must question the reluctance to take decisive action to improve the attractiveness and productivity of the labour regime to prospective domestic and foreign direct investors.
Also, we have seen no real, "behind the border" incentives to entrepreneurs and the private sector to progressively invest in manufacturing and labour- intensive industries. The domestic and export markets have much greater growth potential than is currently being explored.
Headline inflation is still on a growing trajectory, with the CPI for April on 4,2%. When we analyse this, it gives us a picture of the positions of ordinary South Africans and taxpayers, which must be kept in mind when deciding on measures to curb this. The biggest contributors to this increase of 4,2% are, firstly, households and utilities at 1,5%, of which water and services were 9,3% and electricity 19%. The second is food at 0,7%, of which oils and fats were 22,7% and meat 8%. The last one is transport at 0,6%, of which petrol was 16,3%.
These inflation drivers are outside the control of ordinary consumers and taxpayers, and the traditional measures to keep inflation low might not necessarily be the best options. The challenge requires fiscal and monetary innovation and creativity. The economy needs to grow and jobs need to be created progressively by the private sector, with proper and effective government support.
Terwyl bogenoemde stygings groot kommer wek, was die bydrae van alkoholiese drank en tabak tot hierdie inflasiesyfer van 4,2% slegs 0,3%. Hiervan was spiritus 4,3%, wyn 4,4% en bier 8,2%. [While the above-mentioned increases are a great cause for concern, the contribution made from alcoholic beverages and tobacco to this inflation rate of 4,2% was only 0,3%. Of this spirits was 4,3%, wine 4,4% and beer 8,2%.]
The excise duties on wine and spirit products have this year been increased by 8,4% and 10% respectively. Contrary to the general perception, will consumers not pay 8,4% more for a bottle of wine? In reality, the increases are largely absorbed by the primary producer in order to keep retail prices competitive. The increases in excise duties since 2005 have definitely contributed to the sharp decline in the profitability and viability of wine farms. A primary producer earns on average 25 cents from a bottle of wine retailing for R26,66, while the government, at the same, time earns R5,01 per bottle of wine from VAT and excise.
The Minister and the National Treasury will have to reconsider their justification for the yearly drastic excise increases to prevent this labour-intensive industry from imploding, which will have catastrophic consequences, especially for BEE projects.
Verlede jaar tydens die mediumtermyn-bestedingsraamwerk het ek sterk kritiek teenoor die Minister en die SAID uitgespreek oor hoe belastingbetalers met gestremdhede, en wat gestremdes as afhanklikes het, behandel is. Die Minister was nie bendruk met my kritiek en verwysing na gestremdes as sagte teikens vir die SAID nie. Ondanks traumatiese interaksie met die SAID aan die begin van die jaar, wil ek tog erkenning gee dat die SAID uiteindelik toegegee het tot die uniekheid van laste en koste verbonde aan die versorging van gestremdes. Persone binne die omgewing van gestremdes was baie tevrede met en bemoedig deur die uitkomste, en dit het ons hoop gegee vir die toekoms. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Last year, during the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, I expressed strong criticism against the Minister and Sars with regard to how taxpayers with disabilities, and who have disabled persons as dependants, have been treated. The Minister was not impressed with my criticism and the reference to disabled people as soft targets for Sars. Notwithstanding traumatic interactions with Sars at the beginning of the year I would, however, like to acknowledge that Sars has eventually conceded to the uniqueness of the burdens and costs associated with the care of the disabled. Persons involved in the environment of the disabled were very pleased and encouraged by the outcomes, and this has given us hope for the future.] However, despite this success, the provisions of our Constitution, the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD, and other administrative legislation, during May 2011 I per chance became aware of yet another effort by Sars to again "close in" on the same group of vulnerable people.
As we speak, Minister, a new list with, yet again, new rules to prevent essential and related costs from tax deduction is being circulated. The worst is that whenever the commissioner publishes this list at a future date, it will be implemented retroactively from 1 March 2011. This is unfair, Minister, and one must question why Sars cannot first do their homework and then implement this in the tax year following the acceptance of such a list.
In mid-May, when I became aware of this, I tried to get clarity from Sars and the commissioner, but with no success. Eventually - only yesterday - I was able to get some tentative feedback while today, 7 June 2011, was set as the last day for input by representative organisations and affected parties.
This new, unwanted and unfair list of qualifying expenditures, and Sars's strategy, was not even discussed with Parliament and its relevant committees. This new list, again, is out of touch with reality and the quest to effectively care for the disabled. It is ignoring many of the critical matters I thought were clarified earlier this year. Again, one size does not fit all! I hope that sanity will prevail in this matter.
Ten laaste wil ek 'n beroep doen op die SAID dat onbetaalde belasting op toegevoegde waarde, BTW, onmiddellik terugbetaal word. Met die sagtevrugtebedryf se pakseisoen wat nou tot 'n einde kom, veroorsaak hierdie BTW net op pakmateriaal dat sommige boere insolvent kan raak omdat banke nie verdere krediet wil toestaan nie. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Lastly, I would like to appeal to Sars that the unpaid tax on value-added tax, VAT, be paid back immediately. With the soft fruit industry's packing season now coming to an end, this VAT on packing material alone can result in certain farmers going bankrupt, because the banks are unwilling to grant additional credit. I thank you. [Applause.]]
Chairperson, hon members, Minister and your delegation, today we are considering the Budget Vote of the National Treasury within a given context, which the chairperson outlined in his speech. I am not going to repeat that.
Each year the Budget Speech deals with the global balance of economic forces. It is these global economic forces that have a direct bearing upon our ability to execute the development path we have set ourselves, as well as how the Budget should respond to that development path.
We are the makers of history, but the terrain upon which we make this history is a contested one. Foreign economic policy must assist us to deal with the challenges of inequality and poverty in the world. In dealing with the international political economy, the critical need for the reform of the international financial institutions and economic system arises sharply. Many institutions controlling the global economy were developed during periods when colonialism held vast control over its colonies. These colonies, which were held in political and economic bondage, could not participate.
Over the past decade and more, we have been engaging in a battle of ideas in the attempt to transform the Bretton Woods institutions. We have been advocating for a more open, transparent and merit-based approach to choose the heads of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, IMF, not the secretive manner in which they are currently appointed. We have been mobilising the progressive forces in the world to continue advocating the completion of the Doha Development Round Negotiations to ensure that the developing countries have favourable access to markets in the developed world without restrictive conditions.
Africa, in particular, is moving towards beneficiating its raw materials. This must become the decade in which new foreign investment must be focused on beneficiation so that our domestic markets can develop and grow. It is therefore crucial that we harness and optimise these resources in the global community where there are limited trade barriers and protectionist policies. It is imperative that we achieve a just international financial and economical order.
Our National General Council in September 2010 underscored that the ANC continued to be the strategic centre of power, the leader of the alliance, a disciplined force of the left, a mass movement, and an internationalist movement with an anti-imperialist outlook. We have spoken a lot in the past about the need to speed up the reform of international institutions. The initiative with regard to the reform of the IMF requires us to provide the necessary leadership and the political will to follow through with the IMF reform. The reform of the IMF should ensure that the necessary compromises are reached to deliver on the Pittsburgh commitments. Failure to move regarding the IMF and other urgent reforms of the international financial institutions endangers the goodwill earned through the effective action of these institutions in response to the crisis. The IMF is a quota-based institution. Quotas determine the amount of resources that could be made available by the IMF. Our strongly held view is that quotas must shift to developing economies, as their need for the IMF resources is higher. The shift must essentially be from developed countries to developing countries. We must ensure that no emerging and low-income countries lose quotas as a result of these reforms.
We must play a greater role in providing strategic direction to the IMF. We must also ensure that an equitable representation is achieved in the board of the IMF to reflect appropriate regional representation. This could be achieved through reforming the composition of the board to afford an additional chair for sub-Saharan Africa, as was done at the World Bank.
The appointment of the head of the IMF must be based on merit, without regard to nationality or gender. These institutions belong to all of us. The appointment of the heads from Europe and the United States of America, USA, is a long-standing secret practice, but has no basis in the Articles of Agreement.
The Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, grouping sets in motion the construction of a new financial architecture and economic multilateralism as a basis for world growth and prosperity. This demonstrates the absolute necessity that at the regional level we ensure that economies of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, countries are further integrated.
While the global financial crisis originated in rich countries, it has meant a sudden and sharp increase in the borrowing costs of developing countries and, in many cases, their currencies have fallen dramatically. The statement by African Ministers noted that the global slowdown will diminish trade opportunities for Africa. They called on all countries to refrain from protectionist measures and emphasised the need for a successful conclusion of the Doha Development Round of Negotiations.
It is in the world's common interest that countries pursue policies that do not provoke financial instability. This requires international co-operation by national authorities and strong multilateral bodies to organise and co- ordinate efforts to prevent and solve financial crises. The same applies in our region.
Our experience with economic partnership agreements, EPAs, demonstrates how vigilant we have to be and how easy it is to undermine what we are trying to develop within the region when external interests feel threatened by the regional unity. What so easily gets in the way of agreements is national sovereignty and a skewed rules-based system designed to protect national sovereignty. At the heart of such a system we require well-resourced, inclusive and accountable institutions. The IMF and World Bank can play a central role, but must be comprehensively reformed to meet the challenges of the 21st century. This will mean a stronger voice and representation for developing countries.
The international financial institutions have a critical role to play, standing behind the emerging economies that face the consequences of the international crisis. We must ensure adequate resources are available so that we avoid a downward spiral in economic activity. The emerging markets can also be an important engine of global growth if they are properly supported - to maintain well - focused investment programmes and make effective anti-poverty interventions. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 10. [Applause.]
Chairperson, let me thank members of all the political parties both for their support for Budget Vote No 10 and for their useful comments, some of which we will certainly take to heart and some of which I will respond to now. I want to apologise for the absence of the Deputy Minister. He is attending a meeting of the African Development Bank in Portugal at the moment.
Let me at the outset also thank the chair of the standing committee, Mr Mufamadi, for his leadership through this process, but also for his excellent reminder of what is supposed to be in the best tradition of the ANC and the struggle that we have fought against apartheid. The struggle today is that we need to fight against what he called opulence and conspicuous consumption, among other things. Thank you for a good political reminder of where we come from.
As we mourn the loss of MaSisulu, let us also remember the legacy that she and her husband, the late Walter Sisulu, left us: What it means to work with honesty, dedication, integrity and sacrifice; what it means to put people, and not self, first. In many ways this is a very firm reminder to all of us that today "Aluta Continua" means the struggle for the old values of discipline of the ANC, and not the new ones that are leading us astray at this point in time.
Hon Koornhof has made a very useful "ten-point plan" for saving the globe and saving South Africa. We must certainly take that to heart. The ANC and the government is not shy to say where it might have made political and policy mistakes. If corrections are required, hon Koornhof, we will certainly undertake them. At no stage did we say that the public sector is a sole provider of employment. We certainly agree with you that the balance between the salary package and employment is a balance that we need to maintain carefully.
This also applies to the recognition of the role of agriculture, making sure that we have a stable currency, and heeding the lessons of Brazil, as you correctly pointed out. But let me make it very clear that we are not about manipulating currency. It is certainly about doing the things that are within the acceptable bounds of policy action, such as accumulating reserves, and taking those measures that can actually mitigate the worst effects of the impact of capital flows in our own economy.
The hon Oriani-Ambrosini and the ANC have never got along. So, I don't expect that in a five-minute debate we're suddenly going to find each other. [Laughter.] But I think he is unnecessarily alarmist and certainly wants to import the tea party to South Africa. I will ask him to be fact based, rather than engage in warped ideology, because to say that taxation in the corporate world, and personal income tax, PIT, is the highest in the world has no foundation in fact whatsoever. [Interjections.] Perhaps he can provide us with his references and we can have a look at that.
As I said earlier, you've given us some very useful political reminders. Your reminder about getting the balance right between recurrent expenditure and investment in growth is also extremely important. One would look to Parliament to raise this issue more forcefully, to enquire about our expenditure patterns more vigorously to and help the National Treasury and government more generally to re-balance - if you like - the way in which we are spending our money so that we get those balances absolutely right.
Hon George, when the DA eventually gets to government - and I'm not sure when that will ever be - we can then talk about how you would have managed the fiscus as opposed to the ANC. Generally, hon George, you are doing your job well as the opposition spokesperson, but you can't deny the fact that the National Treasury and South African Revenue Services, Sars, manage this country's finances excellently. We thank you for the various compliments that you paid us during the course of your address.
Issues we've been through, such as value-added tax, VAT, for example, many times and several hon members have addressed this question. VAT is the biggest leakage point in any tax system. If we don't put in the right kinds of measures, we become fair game to those who want to engage in corrupt practices. This is not unique to South Africa. There are VAT schemes of all sorts in Europe, the United States and elsewhere in the world. All Sars is doing is ensuring that it puts in place measures that will ensure that we don't become fair game. If there are grievances that individual taxpayers have, I'm sure the Sars doors are open and the commissioner will welcome the issues that concerned constituencies have and will address them in a vigorous way.
The hon Luyenge is correct to pay tribute to Mr Phakamani Hadebe, the Land Bank and the chair of the Land Bank as well. This is a great story of turning around an institution. It is a great story of what not to do with institutions of the state, which is to put them in the wrong hands, both in management terms and in terms of appointment of boards, to wilfully spend money the wrong way. We hope that those who have engaged in this practice will indeed pay the price for that.
We agree with Mr Luyenge that the Land Bank, now that it is beginning to overcome the disabilities imposed upon it by the legacy of those who have passed, will now look at a much more assertive and developmental role in terms of its mandate. Similarly, the Development Bank of Southern Africa, DBSA, is an institution that we should also be extremely proud of and one which the National Treasury has supported in many ways. It is a wonderful example of an institution that has both the flexibility and capability to implement government programmes, assist government where it is possible and to take on this new responsibility that we have given it of implementing the Jobs Fund and making it a success.
Hon Swart, you were right in your concerns around the double-dip factor, but as we have already said, we're doing well; the world seems to be doing well - but that only lasts a few days, until the next result comes out. Uncertainty is a fact of life, if you like, and we have to learn to live with it on the one hand, guard against it on the other hand and keep our eyes on where we want to go.
The hon Dlamini-Dubazana pays appropriate tribute to Sars and its work. I suppose when she used the word "cruel" she actually had it in inverted commas! But she correctly points out that the development of a compliance culture in South Africa is a huge success factor for our country, one that many others in the world are envious of and many others in the world want to emulate as well. She is absolutely right when she says that revenue collection and the responsibility of citizens to pay their taxes is absolutely crucial to both current democracy and the future of our country.
We agree with you, hon Godi, that there needs to be greater oversight in terms of expenditure at the municipal level and that we need far better oversight of the spending of grants in respect of infrastructure and other procurement efforts within municipalities as well. We share your delight that the Land Bank is no longer your constant visitor!
The hon Van Rooyen raises many issues in respect of the political context, which we agree with, and reminders of why we created the special pensions provision, what the amendments of 2008 were about and why we have created the Military Veterans department. I can assure him that as our fiscal capability allows, we will meet our obligations to our military veterans and ensure that the right thing happens. We share his concerns about retirement reforms and the lack of preservation and we'll certainly take up some of the issues that the hon member has raised with the Financial Services Board, FSB.
The hon Marais is a longstanding and firm advocate for the disabled and we accept that. He now raises a set of issues around certain changes that Sars wants to introduce. Let me say that Sars's efforts are doing two things. Firstly, it is to make sure that there is absolute clarity in the way these provisions are formulated about what is allowed and what isn't allowed. Secondly, like everything else in taxation, it is to ensure that the wrong opportunities are not taken by the wrong people and to cover the loopholes to the extent that we can. I can assure you that no list is going to be imposed retrospectively. If there are other issues, hon Marais, I certainly appeal to you - as I did the last time - to talk to Sars and find some way of getting a common understanding.
The hon Sibhida made very valuable points about global governance, about the Bretton Woods institutions, more generally, and the events to come at the International Monetary Fund, IMF, in respect of the appointment of the managing director, MD, the transformation of the institution and the way in which its leadership generally is going to be appointed. This is going to be part of the "Aluta Continua" story: Once we have achieved democracy in one country, how do we get better democracy across the globe? She raises extremely important points in this regard as well.
Let me thank all of you for your support for Budget Vote No 10 and for the valuable contributions that you have made. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.