Deputy Speaker, this is a question which has been asked before. I don't know how it happened, but it is not the fault of the member. The investigation is currently in progress. Hence, the questions can only be answered after the findings have been concluded. We gave other details when the very question first arose. Thank you very much.
Hon member, I'm sure you don't have a supplementary question.
Deputy Speaker, I do not have a long supplementary question, but a short one. The Minister hasn't answered the question about the document that has been retrieved. I understand that you are saying that there is an investigation. Do you believe, Minister, that the police operate on the authority and instructions of higher ranking officials? Do you really believe that these officers - on their own - walked into the Public Protector's office and started the investigation without any instruction whatsoever? Do you really believe that?
Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon member, as I said, I don't think it matters much what I believe or not. What is important is that the process is under way, and, as I indicated earlier, it is nearing the end. Can we then give that process a chance because all those questions and others are being asked in the process? It's being investigated. Thank you very much.
Minister, you stated a short while ago that a third person - the one who gave the two SAPS members the order to raid the Public Protector's office - had been suspended. I would like you please to name that person. Of course the whole country knows the names of the other two who did the raid, and who have been suspended already. I would like you to tell this House who gave him or her the order to pass on to them? South Africa wants to know where that order originated. We have a right to know and we believe it was very, very high up. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, and hon member, South Africans would want to know the entire truth. I think we should leave it at that. The third person has been ... It is not for me to say who that person is. There is a process going on. [Interjections.] Listening is a skill as we know, but we will get there. Deputy Speaker, there is a process going on.
Could we listen, hon members? Order! Listen to the response please.
It's a skill. So, can we wait for the investigation? Thank you very much.
Agb Adjunkspeaker ... [Hon Deputy Speaker] ... hon Minister, I will give you a fair chance to complete the investigation. But, hon Minister, there is one thing that worries me and I don't think that is part of the investigation. The following day your Commissioner, General Bheki "Sele", said ...
HON MEMBERS: "Cele!"
"Cele." Dit is soos oom Piet en oom Kobus. Ek hoop julle kan dit goed uitspreek. [Gelag.] ["Cele." It is like Oom Piet and Oom Kobus. I hope you can pronounce it properly. [Laughter.]]
The following day, he still said that he didn't know who gave the order. That is quite worrying, hon Minister. My question to you is: Are you not worried that even the following day, your top cop didn't know who gave the order? What is wrong in the top structure? I thought that the top management should at least be able to contact each other 24 hours a day. How is that possible? Does it worry you, or is it part of the investigation that the top cop couldn't know - a day after the incident - who gave the order? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, firstly, I don't know what makes the hon member conclude that this was a matter of top management. Any time there is an order to do whatever: arrest, search and so on, it is not always - and you know that, member - reported to the National Commissioner of Police. It is as simple as that. [Interjections.] Thank you very much.
New ranks of Lieutenant and Major in SAPS
3. Mr G D Schneemann (ANC) asked the Minister of Police:
Whether the new ranks of Lieutenant and Major, which were introduced as part of the new rank structure have been implemented; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, how many SA Police Service officials have been promoted into these ranks?