Hon Deputy Speaker, there is no intention by the National Prosecuting Authority to withdraw from the International Association of Prosecutors, so the communication therefore does not arise.
Hon Minister, through you, Ma'am, arising out of the hon Minister's reply, the facts as I understand them are that Adv Nomgcobo Jiba heard that Adv Gerrie Nel had been nominated for a special achievement award for his outstanding work in the Selebi trial. She then did the following things: Firstly, she said the NPA should have been consulted, despite the fact that individual prosecutors and associations of prosecutors can be members of the IAP and can motivate a nomination as they see fit.
Secondly, she threatened to withdraw South Africa or South Africans from the IAP, a thing she cannot do and, as it appears now, she told the Minister she would not do.
My first question is: Will the hon Minister encourage Adv Gerrie Nel's attendance at the IAP conference where this award is to be handed to him later this year? Will the Minister encourage such attendance so that he is not prevented from attending and will the hon Minister congratulate Adv Nel on his great achievement?
It was Adv Jiba herself who signed the warrant for the arrest of Adv Nel - and that arrest is now the subject of a civil claim for unlawful arrest. It was Adv Nel who successfully prosecuted Adv Jiba's husband for stealing a client's trust fund money. The hon President recently expunged that criminal record. Ma'am and hon Minister, impartiality is perceived to be the casualty at the hands of special personal interests. That perception is something we need to deal with. My second question is ... [Time expired.]
No, hon member, your speaking time ran out long ago. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, I think this is part of a smear campaign against Adv Nomgcobo Jiba and everything that is being said is baseless. In June 2011, Adv Jiba attended the meeting of the IAP in Korea. So, the idea that she could be against the International Accreditation Forum, the IAF, is without foundation. All the issues she has been raising now have been properly disposed of by the NPA and Adv Nomgcobo Jiba. [Interjections.] So, I have answered the question and there is no basis for what is being alleged. It is a smear campaign against Adv Nomgcobo Jiba that appears in some newspapers, with so-called sources within the NPA. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Why can't you just congratulate the man?
Deputy Speaker, I am holding a newspaper cutting here, which reads, "Jiba wanted Nel by hook or by crook." Hon Minister, Cope is amazed at the power the acting prosecution boss, Adv Nomgcobo Jiba, has assumed since she was appointed to act in that position. Nowhere in the Constitution does the law grant her or any other civil servant or government employee the power to overrule executive decisions and threaten to overhaul legislation or international conventions through emotional outbursts. Adv Jiba threatened to overhaul a legislated convention that the South African government signed to be a member of the International Association of Prosecutors after she found out that Adv Gerrie Nel was investigating a politically connected ally! In this case, it is her husband, Mr Booker Nhantsi, who is a convicted thief, but his criminal record was expunged by the President in September 2010, and the ex-boss of crime intelligence, Richard Mdluli. Cope wonders how many more such incidents are occurring in the department. [Time expired.]
Your time is up, hon member. Please note that this session is for asking questions, not for making a long speech before asking a question. Your time will be up before you have even asked a question. [Interjections.]
I think the so- called Cope is dancing to the tune of the smear campaign against Nomgcobo. As I said, Nomgcobo attended the IAF last year. So, how on earth would a person attend if she was opposed to such an association? Please, Mr Kganare, you must get information from reliable sources, not from eyewitnesses in some newspapers who are talking about things they know nothing about. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order ...
No point of order, sir. [Interjections.]
No, you can't deny me a point of order! [Interjections.] I am rising on a point of order.
All right.
Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I want you to rule whether it is parliamentary for the hon Minister to refer to Cope, which is a political party legally elected to this Parliament, as "so-called Cope". [Interjections.]
I will now call upon hon Mncwango and then I will make a ruling on that later, hon member.
Deputy Speaker, I am sorry but I pushed the wrong button. Through you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am curious to know the answer that the Minister didn't provide to hon Smuts. I would like to have that answer. Will the Minister encourage and facilitate Adv Nel's reception of this award? Will the Minister congratulate Adv Nel? Can the Minister congratulate him in the House, here and now? Yes or no? Can we please have an answer?
Hon Mncwango.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I told you that I mistakenly pushed the wrong button. So, it was I who pushed the wrong button - I was sitting in the wrong place. I humbly apologise, but it was I who asked to speak, not the hon Mncwango.
Oh, all right.
I have answered the question that was posed to me: whether the NPA was going to withdraw from the International Association of Prosecutors or not. I have answered it and all other peripheral questions are out of order. [Interjections.]
Why can't you congratulate him now? Do you hate him so much? [Interjections.]
There is one more question.
Hon Minister, I reject the suggestion that I work on the basis of information that is part of a smear campaign. I work with my own tried and trusted sources at all times.
My second question to the hon Minister is the following: What will the hon Minister's advice to the hon President be if he proposes to appoint Adv Jiba as the permanent national Director of Public Prosecutions in the event that the Constitutional Court upholds the SCA's judgment against the appointment of Adv Menzi Simelane? Will he advise that she is fit and proper, based on objective, jurisdictional facts, which are required by the SCA's judgment?
I am not a sangoma, so I do not know what the President's mind is ... [Interjections.] ... because in terms of the Constitution the Director of Public Prosecutions is appointed by the President. So, I do not know what is in his mind and am not able to answer that question. [Interjections.]
Lastly, your sources are wrong. Your sources are part of the campaign to discredit Nomgcobo Jiba. I confirm that if your sources were correct, they would have informed you that in June 2011 Nomgcobo attended a conference of the very same International Association of Prosecutors to which you allege she is opposed to. [Applause.]
Referral of construction of police stations to Department of Public Works
216. Ms A van Wyk (ANC) asked the Minister of Police:
With reference to the statement by the national management of the SA Police Service (SAPS) that it will refer the construction of police stations to the Department of Public Works, (a) what is the current situation and (b) how will this process be taken forward?