Madam Deputy Speaker and Mr Deputy President, the portfolio committee has considered the amendments that were effected by the National Council of Provinces regarding the colleges Bill, which was referred to the NCOP on 12 September 2011.
We unanimously adopted those recommendations. Those recommendations relate to the introduction of the definition of a family member in the Bill that was referred. The suggested definition is that family member refers to parents of a member of the college council or a member of any office committee. It refers to siblings, children, including stepchildren and adopted children, a spouse, and a life partner in cohabitation. We felt that this amendment reinforced our work as a committee.
The further additional changes that we introduced were of a grammatical nature, that is substituting "are" for "is", which we thought we should agree to.
You will recall that in the debate we had on 12 September the DA did not support the Bill on the basis that they preferred to retain colleges under the auspices of provincial administrations. We felt that that was unfortunate, because we were very clear on where we needed to go as a country. Also, that could have been motivated by the fact that they wanted to retain and perhaps influence the role of colleges that are clustered here in the Western Cape in their quest for "The People's Republic of the Western Cape".
We hope they will agree with us now, because during the debate in the committee Dr Bosman, who is our new member, replacing the hon Van der Westhuizen, and Dr Kloppers-Lourens agreed with us on these amendments. We hope ... [Inaudible.] ... just riding on the wave of the previous process, you'll support us. [Interjections.] We ... [Inaudible.] ... which could be attested to by those former members who were affected by your redeployment strategy.
We agreed in the committee that the Minister would deal with the issues relating to the parity of benefits for college-employed employees and state employees in the context of the changes that were advanced by that Bill.
There is a need for the upgrading of the skills base of lecturers in the FET sector. There is a need to enhance the programmes or vocational choices that are available in the sector to attract students. All of us in the committee never had any problems on these matters. We may have to hear about whatever issues of grandstanding there were that may emerge from the process, as attested to by the mumblings on the other side.
We therefore, as a committee, recommend that the House adopt this Bill with the amendments, as suggested by the NCOP. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Hon House Chair, hon Deputy President, I move:
That the Bill be passed.
Declarations of vote:
Agb Voorsitter, agb lede, die DA glo dat iets drasties aan die uitermate swak prestasie van ons openbare Kolleges vir Verdere Onderwys en Opleiding gedoen moet word. Die kolleges presteer so swak onder Minister Nzimande se beheer dat die departement nou nog nie die resultate van verlede jaar se eindeksamens wil openbaar nie.
Ongelukkig is Minister Nzimande met hierdie wetsontwerp besig om die fout op die verkeerde plek te soek. Dit is nie net die DA wat so glo nie; Minister Pandor, in haar vorige posisie as Minister van Onderwys, het soos die DA geglo dat groter plaaslike aanspreeklikheid vir kolleges die oplossing sal wees.
Minister Pandor het 'n ideaal of droom gehad wat nou deur hierdie wetsontwerp vernietig sal word. Sy het geglo dat die diensure van kolleges en hul personeel by plaaslike behoeftes moet aanpas op 'n wyse wat buite die beperkinge van die Staatsdiens val. Sy het dus vyf jaar gelede hierdie Huis oortuig om 'n wet te aanvaar wat die personeel van die kolleges uit die staat se diens sou stel en om die kollegerade hulle werkgewers te maak. Sy het ook die ideaal gehad dat personeel met skaars vaardighede vanuit die industrie na die kolleges gelok sou kon word. Ongelukkig het die departement die kollegerade met die implementering van hierdie wet gefaal.
Minister Nzimande, wat blykbaar glo dat alles en almal vanuit Pretoria beheer moet word, is besig om daardie ideaal te vernietig. In plaas daarvan dat plaaslike gemeenskappe in beheer van hul kolleges geplaas word, word dit nou na die nasionale departement in Pretoria oorgedra. In plaas van groter buigsaamheid en outonomie, gaan ons kolleges in die nou drukgang van staatsinstellings gedwing word.
Elkeen van ons 50 openbare kolleges is uniek in hul personeelbehoeftes en elkeen verg 'n eie personeelstruktuur of organogram. Die Staatsdiens se salarisskale en die vaste organisasiestruktuur wat uit hierdie wetsontwerp sal voortvloei, bied eenvoudig nie die buigbaarheid wat nodig is om goeie kollegelektore in skaars vakke te lok en te behou nie.
Openbare kolleges wat voorheen 'n provinsiale verantwoordelikheid was, gaan nou die verantwoordelikheid van een nasionale staatsdepartement word. Wie op die kollegerade gaan dien, hoe hul kurrikula, hul taalbeleid, aanstellingsbeleid en 'n legio ander belangrike sake daarna gaan uitsien, gaan uiteindelik vanuit Pretoria bepaal word. In die proses word die magte van die kollegerade afgewater, tot nadeel van die studente. Hierdie nasionalisering van openbare kolleges sal tot gevolg h dat die departement verskeie provinsiale kantore sal moet vestig. Geld wat na die klaskamers moes vloei, sal nou in provinsiale kantore verkwis word. In die proses word die koste van opleiding andermaal geweldig opgestoot.
Ons land kan dit nie bekostig nie. Om hierdie redes kan die DA hierdie wetsontwerp nie steun nie. Dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)
[Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Hon Chairperson, hon members, the DA believes that drastic action should be taken with regard tt colleges. These colleges are performing so poorly under the management of Minister Nzimande that the department at this stage still does not want to disclose the results of last year's end-of-year exams.
Unfortunately, with this Bill Minister Nzimande is busy looking for the flaw in the wrong place. It is not only the DA that holds this conviction; Minister Pandor, in her former capacity as the Minister of Education, believed, like the DA, that the solution would be greater accountability for colleges at local level.
Minister Pandor had had an ideal or a dream, which will now be destroyed by this Bill. She believed that the working hours of colleges and their staff should be adapted to local needs in a manner that would fall outside the limitations of the Public Service. She therefore had convinced this House five years ago to adopt an Act that would take the staff of these colleges out of the Public Service and would make the college councils their employers. She also had the ideal that staff with scarce skills could be lured out of industry to join these colleges. Unfortunately the department has failed the college councils with the implementation of this Act.
Minister Nzimande, who apparently believes that everything and every one should be managed from Pretoria, is busy destroying that ideal. Instead of local communities being put in control of their colleges, these colleges are currently being transferred to the national department in Pretoria. Instead of greater flexibility and autonomy, our colleges will be forced into the narrow crush pen of government institutions.
Each of our 50 public colleges is unique with regard to their staff needs and each of them requires a unique staff structure or organogram. The Public Service salary scales and the permanent organisational structure that will emanate from this Bill simply do not offer the flexibility that is needed to attract and keep competent college lecturers in scarce subjects.
Public colleges, which had previously been a provincial responsibility, will now become the responsibility of a single national government department. The people who will be serving on these college councils, the way in which they will be managing their curricula, their language policies and their policies for appointing staff members, as well as the way in which many other important matters will work, will eventually be determined from Pretoria.
In this process the powers of the college councils are being watered down, to the detriment of the students. This nationalisation of public colleges will result in the department having to open various provincial offices. Money that should have been utilised in the classrooms will now be wasted on provincial offices. In the process the cost with regard to training is once more being escalated significantly.
Our country cannot afford this. For these reasons the DA cannot support this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Mr B M Bhanga: Chair, Cope again wants to register its position on the Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill. We want to record that the technical amendments to the Bill proposed by the NCOP do not address our concerns about the Bill.
We are, in principle, opposed to the notion that centralisation of powers in relation to the further education and training colleges will, of necessity, lead to improved management and control over these institutions. We will provide examples in terms of which the centralisation of power at the national level failed dismally.
Cope believes that further education and training colleges should best be managed at the provincial level, which is closer to the communities that these institutions serve; and close to industries and businesses where those who graduate from these colleges will take up employment. The notion that national departments are better placed to oversee effective functioning of institutions is wrong.
Centralisation cannot be offered as a panacea or magic wand to address administrative weaknesses at the provincial level. To the contrary, it is on record that many of the national departments, including the Department of Higher Education, do not support the notion that the centralisation of control and decision-making improves bodies that are overseen by national departments. Many national departments have become mired in controversy, including the Department of Higher Education.
The problems encountered with the Sector Education and Training Authorities are a case in point. The Seta problems have increased rather than been resolved after they were placed under the control of the national department - under the leadership of former communist Mr Blade Nzimande. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The National Student Financial Aid Scheme is another example. This financial aid scheme for students encountered problems that became worse after the former communist and his department effectively appropriated powers ... [Interjections.]
Mrs M T Kubayi: I rise on a point of order, House Chair. I think the member who is speaking before us is not articulating the amendments to the Bill. We are dealing with the amendments to the Further Education and Training Bill, not with whether people are communists or not. Can we stick to that?
Your point is noted. Hon member, let us stick to the Bill that is before us.
Mr B M Bhanga: Our sense is that while the intentions of government may be good, what is contained in the Bill, proposed by the former Marxist, is going to take us in exactly the opposite direction. [Interjections.] With all that in mind, we as Cope cannot support this Bill. [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, I stand here to reaffirm our original position on the Bill when we debated it here before. We had some concerns regarding the Bill. Our first concern was the fact that these institutions were not equally resourced. It must be remembered that during the time of the merger, the commission that was charged with the shape and size of these institutions had instructions to reduce the number of institutions, but not to reduce the site of learning in these institutions, with which we agreed.
In reality, we found that the satellite institutions were poorly resourced. Some time ago - and the Minister agreed - I referred to some of these institutions being, in fact, haunted. Take, for instance, KwaGqikazi College: no quality learning can take place in that institution.
The second concern that we raised with regard to these institutions was that lecturers in these FETs were poorly qualified. We did raise our concern that, while we support the Bill, we urge the Minister to please see to it that the standard of lecturers in these institutions is raised. I thank you.
Hon Chairperson, hon members, Azapo's position on provinces is known, namely that provinces should be abolished and that South Africa should have a two-tier system of government, which would be national and local government. We will therefore support any move that takes away powers from provinces, whether it is the Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill or putting certain provincial departments under administration. In fact, Azapo's view is that all provinces should be put under section 100 as part of the transition towards their abolition.
Of course, we share the concerns about the disparity of the conditions of service of lecturers at FET colleges. We subscribe to the principle that conditions must be the same if you have the same employer and do the same work. So, we support the view that the Minister must deal with those disparities while, at the same time, dealing with the question of empowering college lecturers.
Hon members will remember that some of those lecturers at FET colleges were actually drawn from colleges of education that were disestablished. So, many of them do not necessarily have experience in the field in which they are involved. That is the reason Azapo supports this Bill. We thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, as the ANC we support the amendment of the Further Education and Training Bill. We believe that this Bill seeks to assign and transfer all functions of the further education and training colleges from the provincial departments to the national department. We strongly believe that the national department is competent to do the task that is supposed to be done.
Yes, we hear the opposition, especially the DA, talking about the poor performance of the FET colleges. We agree with them on that, but that is why we strongly believe that the introduction of this Bill is going to cater for dealing with such poor performance. We believe that the transitional period, that is when the FET colleges are in the process of being transferred to the national department, will be well managed. We know what most of the fears are that the people have. We are talking about the salaries and benefits of the employees; and we are talking about the lives of these people in terms of which as a country we need to provide people with skills. We know that that is a critical point. We know why the opposition is saying that. It is a concern of ours as the ANC too.
As the ANC we strongly believe that this sector needs to be given enough attention. We want to produce a skilled and capable workforce for the economic growth of the country. So, really, as the ANC we fully support the transfer of the FET colleges to being a national competence. We believe that this sector is going to be more stable and that the transition period is going to be well managed. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Congress of the People dissenting).
Bill accordingly passed.