Thank you, Chairperson.
Just hold on, Deputy Minister. Hon Lees.
Thank you very much, Chairperson. Could we have a reason why the Minister is not available today, please?
Unfortunately, I have no answer right now. Can we proceed?
Thank you again, Chairperson. The response to (a) in the question, about the total number of offices of the Department of Home Affairs in rented buildings in each province, is as follows: Free State, 14; KwaZulu-Natal, 28; Gauteng, 30; Northern Cape, 12; Limpopo, 12; Western Cape, 25; Eastern Cape, 64; Mpumalanga, 18; and North West, 10. The total is 213 offices.
In response to the rest of the question, it is regretted that we cannot answer it, and it is suggested that the hon member refer this part of the parliamentary question to the Minister of Public Works, as the Department of Public Works is responsible for the accommodation needs of government departments and therefore responsible for the final payment of rent to service providers. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, while we know that the Department of Public Works will know the figures, is it not so that the Department of Home Affairs itself should also be privy to such information?
Chairperson, perhaps I can explain the procedure as follows. The Department of Home Affairs pays over a certain amount to the Department of Public Works. The question on the Order Paper refers to whether there are, in fact, rental amounts that are in arrears. As far as we as the Department of Home Affairs are concerned, we have paid what we have owed to the Department of Public Works. As to whether they have indeed paid service providers is information that we would have to derive from them. Likewise, I think that the question ought to be directed to that Ministry.
Total number of employees suspended for corruption and fraud, and matters relating thereto
10. Mr B Nesi (ANC) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(1) What is the total number of employees in her department who have been suspended for (a) corruption and (b) fraud (details furnished);
(2) whether such persons colluded with (a) foreign nationals and (b) private citizens; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what was their modus operandi;
(3) whether her department has any programmes in place to educate people to report such persons and activities; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO96E
The response to the first part of the question is as follows. A total of 20 employees have been suspended for corruption and fraud so far in the 2011-12 financial year.
With regard to the second part of the question, (2) (a) and (b), the answer is yes, the nature of the allegations ranges from soliciting bribes from illegal foreigners in exchange for the endorsement of passports with fraudulent visas and permits, and altering information or residential status on the department's movement control system, to further aiding ... [Interjections.] I'm not sure, Chairperson, whether this is a point of order or whether I'm meant to continue.
On a point of order, Deputy Chair: I just want to find out if the Deputy Minister may answer the question while the member who asked the question is not here. Is that allowed? That is all I am asking.
May I give you some information? The hon Nesi is not in, but the hon Nzimande has been asked to stand in for him. The hon Deputy Minister may continue.
I would have thought, Deputy Chairperson, that Members of Parliament would have been interested in the responses, regardless of whether the member who asked the question was here or not! It was, after all, the responsibility of Members of Parliament to hold us to account the last time I checked.
To continue, the nature of the allegations ranges from soliciting bribes from illegal foreigners in exchange for the endorsement of passports with fraudulent visas and permits and altering information or residential status on the department's movement control system, to further aiding and abetting illegal foreigners. Some of these officials were found in possession of ID documents outside the offices of the department without permission, and were hence put on suspension.
The answer to the third part of the question is as follows. While there's no formal programme that exists, the department has, however, established community stakeholder forums in very many provinces of the Republic, and these forums are, inter alia, meant to advocate and to educate people on countering corruption. The Minister's office also has a hotline where not only complaints can be lodged, but compliments can be paid as well. We often also get tip-offs with regard to cases of corruption. This hotline was well publicised in the general media. I thank you, Chairperson.
Hon Nzimande, is there a follow-up question? Not? All right.
Chairperson, thank you very much. Maybe the Minister can give us more information in relation to section (2) of the question, as this brings us to what Parliament is currently busy with regarding the Protection of State Information Bill. Are these problems, which it has been agreed exist, really the reason why this Bill has become important, to make sure that it protects the citizens of this country?
I'm not sure whether the hon member is referring to the Bill that has been tabled by the hon Minister of State Security. If that's the Bill that the hon member is referring to, I'm also not sure to what extent it relates to the answer in section (2).
The issue with regard to information on the Home Affairs database is one that pertains to national security and in that respect there is, I imagine, some convergence. As to whether this would, in fact, necessarily be called classified information, let me say that it is a secure database. Even without the Bill that is being referred to, access to this database is very restricted and will continue to be so, simply because of the nature of the information contained on the database.
Chairperson, this is a follow-up question. When the hon Deputy Minister answered section (2) of the question, she said there was collusion in regard to fraud and all the other things. My understanding of this Bill is that it will deal with all the problems we are referring to.
I was just checking whether she agreed with that process. You see, there are now people who are married and who don't even know who married them! There is also destruction of information as far as Home Affairs is concerned. I was just checking whether they are trying to solve that particular problem or not, because if you don't know what you are trying to do, it's a problem. Thank you, Chairperson.
Perhaps I could clarify and say that one of the measures that we are taking to ensure that the information on our database is not accessed for illicit purposes, is that we have installed on our system a biometric feed, so every time an official accesses information on our system, that official will need to have his or her fingerprint scanned before he or she will have access to that information.
This is one of the ways in which we will prevent the illicit use of that information for purposes other than the purposes it is meant for. If, for instance, fraudulent documents are issued, we are able to trace precisely who has issued those documents with this system. I hope that that answers the concern of the hon member, because clearly the issue of securing the information on our database is a priority for us.
Hon Lees?
Hon Chairperson, thank you for recognising me but, with your indulgence, may I ask that you take the hand of the hon Van Lingen, who's been trying to indicate her intention to ask a question for a little while.
You're grown up! Hon Van Lingen?
Thank you, Chairperson. I did have my hand up with the first follow-up question and I appreciate the fact that you are being very kind today.
I would like to ask the Deputy Minister if any criminal charges have been laid against the officials in this particular case. Thank you.
It is standard procedure, Chairperson, through you, to ensure that criminal charges are also laid with the authorities. May I just say that the question pertained to how many officials were suspended, and so the answer necessarily related to the suspensions. Of course, there are those who have left our employ as well, as a consequence of corrupt and fraudulent activities, but it is a matter of process and procedure that we lay criminal charges with the relevant authorities when such matters come to light.
Hon members, I would like to appeal to all of you, and to the Ministers who are here to answer questions, that we should prioritise the Minister of State Security, so that he is the next in line, because the Presidency wants him to go and deal with some other crucial matters.
Installation of webcams to monitor staff and detect illegal and corrupt activities, and preliminary indications regarding department's commitment to root out corruption and fraud in its offices
11. Mr B Nesi (ANC) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
Whether her department has installed webcams to (a) monitor staff and (b) detect illegal and corrupt activities in all offices of her department; if not, (i) why not and (ii) when does her department intend to finalise the roll-out of the programme; if so, what are the preliminary indications regarding her department's commitment to root out corruption and fraud in its offices?