Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order, hon members!
Thank you, Chairperson. Deputy Minister of Correctional Services, chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, hon members, National Commissioner of Correctional Services and senior management of the department, Judge Vuka Tshabalala, our Inspecting Judge, Judge Siraj Desai, the chairperson of the National Council on Correctional Services and members of that council, members of the Medical Parole Advisory Board, members of the Audit Committee, our entire Department of Correctional Services personnel, ladies and gentlemen, as I deliver this introduction to the Budget Vote debate, allow me to pay homage to one of the members of our portfolio committee, our comrade, sister and a mother to us, uMama u-Florence Nyanda, who passed away on 6 May 2012. May her soul rest in peace.
At the time of my appointment and our first Budget Vote in 2009, I gave the undertaking to continue with the work of transforming the department, with a view to making it an integral part of the integrated criminal justice system and the value chain in the fight against crime and criminality. In order to do this we committed ourselves to a plan to address both the policy and the operational challenges that inhibited the department's ability to implement both the White Paper and the Correctional Services Act of 1998.
It remains our position that the department should not simply view its mandate solely in terms of incarceration and accommodating offenders. Its work should be viewed within the context of being part of the government's efforts to ensure public safety. In order to do so, the work of the department should deliver on the policy objectives of the new system espoused in the White Paper.
As we pass the midterm point of this administration, this Budget Vote debate should review the extent to which we have made progress in regard to this commitment and clearly define what is required to be done in the remaining half of this term.
Over the period under review, we have focused our work on improving departmental administration, embedding transformation initiatives in the fabric of the department and ensuring compliance with the Constitution, the White Paper on Corrections and its policy, and the law. Our focus as a department is on delivering our services with greater efficiency and consistency, the appropriate work ethic and managerial expertise.
Our report to you is that the department is undergoing a fundamental process of change. Previously we committed ourselves to implementing various quick-win interventions aimed at addressing the key challenges and the creation of an environment conducive to the effective delivery of rehabilitation programmes at our centres. As our report card will indicate, these quick-wins are becoming key drivers of our programme of transformation.
We are finally succeeding in ensuring that the department operates differently in pursuance of the objectives of the White Paper. The work of the department in the previous three years has increasingly focused on the improvement of our core business, focusing on offenders and effective rehabilitation.
Regarding overcrowding, we have always believed that overcrowding impacts on the ability of the department to provide effective rehabilitation. It is for this reason that we committed ourselves last year to dealing with the problem of overcrowding in a sustained and integrated manner. We are here to report to you that we are succeeding in this regard.
The department is currently implementing a pilot project for the electronic monitoring of certain categories of inmates placed on parole. This project started only on 14 February and reached a milestone yesterday, when the 106th participant was tagged here in Cape Town. It is our view that the pilot project has been a resounding success, and that it is time to extend electronic monitoring to other categories of inmate, including offenders still serving custodial sentences in our centres. It is our plan that this roll-out should be finalised in this financial year.
It is also our intention to bring before the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster proposals on the consideration of the use of electronic monitoring as part of alternative sentencing for minor offences. This will ensure that only those who have committed serious offences serve a custodial sentence.
On 27 April, as part of the celebration of 18 years of our freedom and 16 years of our constitutional democracy, the President announced the granting of a special remission of sentence for certain categories of offenders, including parolees and probationers. The granting of a special remission of sentence is in line with the provisions of our Constitution and international practice, where remission of sentence may be granted as part of the recognition of key events in the life of a country.
In deciding to grant this current remission, which is the first during this administration, the cluster has taken care to ensure that those offenders who pose a serious risk to society, particularly those declared to be dangerous criminals, are completely excluded from remission. The department has put in place a dedicated operational plan and the capacity to manage the impact of the remission process.
In regard to the effective management of remand detention, after the promulgation of the Correctional Matters Amendment Act, the department moved with speed to put in place the plan to operationalise the implementation of the new Act. Since then the department has established a fully fledged branch for remand detention. A total of 23 distinct centres for remand detainees have now been approved and established.
Regarding halfway houses, as per our undertaking in the previous budget, we opened the first state-funded halfway house in February this year. We had identified the real need to prepare offenders to function normally in society after their release by creating a bridge that could help them adjust to the movement from incarceration to reintegration. We need to ensure that the confusion caused by this transition is not so detrimental that it drives them to the point of wishing to return to a correctional facility, or forces them to reoffend.
As we indicated last year, this halfway house is currently housing juveniles who initially could not be released as a result of the lack of a support system and identifiable physical addresses. The next category of offenders who will benefit from the establishment of halfway houses will be women.
In fact, today we have in our midst two sets of very special invited guests whose circumstances clearly demonstrate the importance of our all viewing rehabilitation as a societal responsibility. I must thank Ms Simone Roets indeed for allowing us to share her story with the South African public, in the hope that through this we can all come to truly appreciate the role that society plays in both breeding offender behaviour and supporting the sustainability of rehabilitation once the offender has been released and reintegrated. Ms Simone Roets is here with us this afternoon. Where is she? [Applause.]
The long and short of her story is that, after suffering sexual abuse from the age of five, she finally began a life on the streets and became a sex worker at the age of 14. Needless to say, this life involved the use of drugs and the abuse of alcohol, and she was surrounded by violence and physical abuse on a daily basis. At the age of 18, she had an altercation with a client in which she killed him.
We placed her on day parole because we felt that she was in a category that required daily monitoring. Simone had been given a life sentence. I released Simone in April last year, following the Van Vuuren ruling. [Applause.]
However, what we did not take full cognisance of was the shock therapy that we were submitting her to by thrusting her into a society where she had lost touch with family and friends. She had never worked in all her life and had not been exposed to life on the outside since she was 18. Ms Simone Roets served a total of 21 years. This situation made her feel as if she was not part of that society. Eventually, she absconded. She returned to a life of alcohol abuse and had to be rearrested.
We need to talk about the story of what happened to Ms Roets because that helps us deal with the question of what role society should play in supporting those who have committed crime but are now deemed ready for social reintegration.
We also need to accept that crime and criminality are entirely about failure in society, not a direct consequence of failure in a system of correction. Preventing a life of criminality begins with the family unit, the social fibre and the opportunities for growth that our children have access to.
When we were visiting the Groot Drakenstein facility, I was concerned to learn of the presence of young offenders under the age of 18. Upon further enquiry, we learnt that these children, who should normally not be in our facility, had committed serious crimes. These ranged from murder to rape and theft. We invited these young people to join us in the gallery today. Sometimes when we talk about these things people think we are exaggerating. Where are they? Where are the young boys? [Applause.] All right, boys.
The fact that these children, as young as 17 years of age, have committed these serious crimes should make society question where we have all failed in protecting our children from a life of crime. Together with Ms Roets, these young people are only a small part of a bigger problem that society should be dealing with.
Regarding the protection of vulnerable groups, it gives me great pleasure and a deep sense of pride to report that we succeeded last year in piloting key projects aimed at enhancing rehabilitation work, particularly in relation to vulnerable groups within our offender population.
In August last year, we opened the first, new-generation mother-and-baby units for women who are serving sentences and have young babies under the age of two. The purpose of these units is to allow the child as close to normal an existence as possible, even if such an existence is under the conditions of the incarceration of the mother. These centres are currently operational in Pollsmoor, Durban Westville and Johannesburg.
Regarding youth dialogue, we have once again increased the number of youth centres participating in youth dialogues. Here parents are encouraged to visit their children and interact with them in the centres through a facilitated dialogue. During the previous year, we held these dialogues in 10 youth centres across the country.
Regarding the policy on medical parole, after the promulgation of the Correctional Matters Amendment Act, the new medical parole policy came into effect on 1 March 2012. We have, in accordance with the new policy, appointed the Medical Parole Advisory Board, chaired by Dr Victor Ramathesele. That board is here with us this afternoon. [Applause.]
This is an independent panel of medical experts that considers and decides on all medical aspects in applications for placement on parole based on medical grounds. Only after their input may a parole board consider such an application and decide on it in terms of the broader criteria for placement on parole. It is estimated that there are potentially 298 inmates in our facilities who can be considered for medical parole under the new policy framework.
After conducting the review of the provision of new facilities through the public-private partnership model, we took a decision to cancel the procurement process in October 2011, as anticipated. The cancellation of the current procurement process does not exclude the future building of additional correctional facilities.
The building and maintenance of correctional facilities may still be best provided by third parties, but such a decision can only be taken once the DCS has pronounced on its long-term demand for facilities in relation to both the optimal size for inmate type and location. It is our view that the issue of the size of our centres should be based on requirements, as opposed to the initial proposal that the new facilities should have a 3 000- bed capacity across the board. We recently concluded a process of consultative engagement with the construction industry to discuss further plans with regard to infrastructure roll-out. In line with the space requirements submitted by the regions, the following are approved for construction this year: two facilities of 500-bed capacity in Limpopo, two facilities of 500-bed capacity in the Eastern Cape and one 500-bed-capacity centre for the Western Cape, as well as a 1 000-bed-capacity centre in Kwazulu-Natal. Construction on the total of six centres will be initiated by the end of this financial year. An additional 12 centres of between 500 and 1 500-bed capacity will be constructed in the outer years. Consultation is ongoing with National Treasury and Public Works, both at departmental and ministerial level, on the way forward in implementing these projects.
I am concerned that our target for 2012-13 remains as low as 30% of sentenced offenders with correctional sentence plans completing correctional programmes. This is an area that the department must improve on. It is important that focus is now placed on completion of such programmes and not simply on participation, which is the case now.
The interim case management committee structures are now established in all centres, in accordance with section 42 of the Correctional Services Act. On 26 March 2012, we held a national work session for parole boards and case management committees in the Pretoria management area to improve the effective functioning of both.
The department aims to improve the development of needs-based assessments of offenders to improve the quality of the sentence plans. The law requires that correctional sentence plans are implemented for all offenders with a sentence of 24 months and more. Approximately 80% of offenders with sentences of 24 months and more currently have sentence plans. Most new admissions with a sentence of 24 months and more are profiled within 21 days, as required by the Act. Of course, this area remains a big challenge for us.
The issue of the rehabilitation of short-term offenders is a complex one and requires the attention of the cluster. We have already identified appropriate centres for the accommodation of short-term offenders separate from long-term offenders. We are concerned about the proverbial revolving door among short-term offenders. Hence, I have issued a directive that the department reviews the rehabilitation path of such offenders.
Since last year a National Framework on Offender Labour has been developed, consulted on, approved and disseminated to regions for implementation. It is our plan that this new framework will help increase the number of offenders who participate in offender labour and skills development programmes.
The department is in the process of evaluating the current technology security systems, which include access control systems, surveillance, alarms and fencing, to ensure alignment with the security challenges and technology strategy of the department. This process will direct the management, maintenance and upgrading of existing systems, as well as the implementation of new systems.
A contract has been awarded for the installation of security fences with CCTV cameras and detection systems at 27 correctional facilities. We are also in the process of procuring a service provider for the upgrading, maintenance and management of the existing access control systems of the department. The access control and fencing virtual private network, which was run and controlled by external service providers, has been taken over by the department.
Body scanners will be installed in 20 priority facilities, after which a further roll-out will be considered in this financial year.
A skills development framework for security personnel, including our emergency support teams, was approved, and a Safety and Security Sector Education and Training Authority, or SASSETA-accredited training curriculum for the emergency support teams is being developed. The current security policy procedures of the department have been revised and aligned to the minimum security standards of government. We are encouraged by the report that we are succeeding in the down management of escapes, from a total of 106 during the 2010-11 financial year to 41 during 2011-12. We should not have any escapes. However, this is where we are. We have also identified the number of facilities with a high risk of gang activity.
As hon members may be aware, we recently had the opportunity to introduce members of the National Council for Correctional Services to the portfolio committee. I am glad to announce that Judge Desai has once again agreed to serve as chairperson of the NCCS, after we accepted the resignation of the former chairperson, Judge Ndita, who had to resign for personal reasons.
Following the Van Vuuren ruling of the Constitutional Court, I considered for placement on parole all 368 lifers who were affected by this decision.
I am also happy to announce that Judge Vuka Tshabalala has been appointed as our new Inspecting Judge, with effect from 1 November 2011. [Applause.] In line with the legislative amendments that came into effect in 2009, a chief executive officer has also been appointed for the Office of the Inspecting Judge.
The Gallows Restoration Project, based in the Pretoria management area, aims to contribute to nation-building and recording the impact of the violent and inhumane policy of capital punishment - a part of our history that shall never be repeated in our beloved country. Phase 1 of this project was completed last year. It involved the reconstruction of the gallows, which had been dismantled in the mid-90s. The restored gallows were officially opened by President Jacob Zuma on 15 December 2011. We believe that through this museum many of our people, including the younger generation, will come to terms with this aspect of our history and dedicate themselves to ensuring that we will never return to such an era.
My concern as a woman and a gender activist has been the skills that women offenders are given while in our facilities. It was for this reason that we launched a pilot project for the production of sanitary towels, called the Sanitary Dignity Campaign. The project is currently being piloted in the East London Female Correctional Centre and involves 10 female offenders in maximum security and three officials. We have rolled out two more machines, one in Durban Westville and another one in Limpopo.
While the project will make a significant contribution to the skilling of offenders, it will also assist in the provision of sanitary towels to young women in rural areas in the proximity of the centres and, of course, this will be free of charge. [Applause.] This is our small contribution, and we are also ploughing back into our society.
The department has entered into partnerships with the private sector and NGOs to educate and skill our offenders in preparation for their reintegration into society. We are particularly thrilled, in our partnership with the Department of Communications, to offer an e-literacy programme to young offenders between the ages of 14 and 35.
Utilising internal resources, the department has embarked on a project to establish computer-based training centres at youth and adult centres. Offender involvement in skills development programmes and in vocational and skills training programmes in production workshops and on agricultural farms is an area of work that needs some refining.
Since my appointment I have been acutely aware of the anomalies in the structure of the Department of Correctional Services and have consistently engaged with management in relation to amending the structure. I have now approved the high-level structure of the department, which will fundamentally transform the manner in which the DCS provides service delivery.
The span of command of the national commissioner has been rationalised to eight direct reports, as opposed to the unmanageable 17 direct reports that he has had. We have established the post of chief operating officer. This person who will report directly to the national commissioner, while six regional commissioners will report to him or her. The following managers will also be reporting directly to the chief operating officer: the chief security officer, the head of facilities, the Deputy Commissioner: Operations Support, and the head of litigation. Also reporting directly to the national commissioner are the head of strategic management, the chief financial officer, the head of human resources, the chief audit executive and the government information technology officer.
Finally, in line with the logic of the mandate of Correctional Services, we have established three core business branches: Remand Detention, Correctional Incarceration and Community Corrections. The restructuring of the core business branches is in line with the Cabinet decision in relation to Remand Detention. It combines the functions currently carried out in Personal Corrections and in Development and Care, and lifts Community Corrections to a fully fledged branch. In particular, the creation of the Correctional Incarceration Branch is fundamental to the ability of the DCS to focus on the sound development of correctional sentence plans.
In this regard I am glad to announce that we have a full complement of chief deputy commissioners and regional commissioners appointed in terms of the new structure, and that we do not have anybody in an acting capacity at that level. [Applause.]
Following various discussions on matters relating to employment equity raised in the Western Cape region, I decided to appoint a team, led by Adv Ntsebeza, to investigate and report back to me on the matter. Once I have received these findings and recommendations, I will be able to pronounce on the position of the department going forward.
As we promised last year, the Gito branch is now headed at CDC level - that would be at deputy director-general level in other departments - and is in the process of being capacitated. The department has significantly reduced the number of consultants working in IT, from 156 at the end of the 2010-11 financial year to about 45 consultants at the end of 2011-12. [Applause.] The consultants are being replaced by appointees filling permanent IT technical posts. I am also pleased to announce that delivery on the strategy that we have developed to turn around the IT systems of DCS has started.
Hon Minister, you have a minute to conclude.
A minute?
One minute to conclude, yes.
Okay. With regard to performance against predetermined objectives, the department has developed an action plan to get a clean audit by 2013-14. A critical enabler of this, however, is putting the IT infrastructure and the business systems of the department onto a solid footing, aligned to the performance indicators and their data elements in the strategic plan and the annual performance plan.
The DCS beefed up its capacity in financial accounting during the 2011-12 financial year. As a result, the department was able to clear all zero suspense accounts for month-end closure with effect from July 2011. The suspense accounts team monitors the clearance of suspense accounts and unblocks any challenges experienced at both national and regional or management level.
We were, for the first time, able to clear all year-end zero suspense accounts by 26 April 2012. This enabled the department to perform the financial year-end closure on the Basic Accounting System without being force-closed for March 2012.
Hayi, siqhwabeleni ndiyanicela. [No, please give us a round of applause.][Applause.] This has not happened for 13 years, and in this regard the DCS was one of the first departments to successfully close its books.
The budget allocations over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period will increase the baseline to R17,732 billion, a 7% increase, in 2012-13. Of course, this is a matter that will be addressed through the infrastructure roll-out that we will announce during the adjustments estimate in September.
We present this budget as an account of the progress we have made on the commitments made in our previous Votes. It is our submission that the bulk of the work undertaken represents a significant measure of success. In this regard we thank the House, and the members of the portfolio committee in particular, for their ongoing support and effective oversight.
Once more, I would like to thank our managers and officials for the sterling work they continue to do in support of our policy objectives. The amount of progress made to date is a sign that we will make it.
This year I want to dedicate my speech to my late mother. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Minister. I have allowed you to complete your speech. We will adjust the time you have in which to close the debate.
Chairperson, I have a question for you: Will you give the DA the long minute as well? [Interjections.]
Hon member, that question is not appropriate. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members. Order! Before I recognise the next speaker, I want to recognise the presence in the gallery of the former Deputy President of the Republic, Ms Baleka Mbete. Thank you for joining us today. [Applause.]
HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Applause.]
Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, fellow South Africans, hon members and comrades, we take advantage of this opportunity to acknowledge the contribution that hon member Florence Nyanda made to realising a better South Africa. To the very end, MaNyanda would join the portfolio committee in its oversight and committee work, regardless of her failing state of health. We salute MaNyanda. We also take this opportunity to convey our condolences on the death of another veteran of our movement, the late Reverend Chabaku. Lala ngoxolo. [Rest in peace.]
The overwhelming majority of South Africans born prior to 1990 continue to bear the mental and physical scars of a brutalised society. An analysis of the current offender population shows that the majority of offenders are in the age range of 21 to 45 years; they are black South Africans and they are males. This means that the 45-year-old inmate whom we talk about was about nine years old and still in primary school when the Soweto uprisings of 1976 took place. We are acutely aware that for the decade after the Soweto uprisings, very little teaching and learning took place in our townships, resulting in a generation of young people with very little chance of being gainfully employed. In all likelihood, the 21-year-old offender has a father or older brother who is or was in our correctional facilities at some point.
In America, when the slaves started their struggle for political participation, the ruling elite introduced a system of informal and state- sponsored forms of violence and repression through the penal system. The prison walls were designed not only to keep the offenders out, ... [Interjections.] ... rather, to keep them in, but to keep the public out, thus preventing observation or knowledge of what was going on inside. [Interjections.] Unknown to all but offenders and guards, the prisons thus became physical sites where the most unspeakable torture was carried out without any restraint.
In our own country, history shows that when the oppressed took up their struggle for a better life, the government of the time similarly imprisoned many of us and even banished the leadership of the struggle for a better life to Robben Island, as a means of removing from society those whom they felt should not be seen or heard. These acts of banishment and mass imprisonment during those dark days of apartheid have a direct bearing on the high numbers of the unemployed or unemployable masses, resulting in many, but not all, turning to crime purely for survival.
The ushering in of a democratic order on 27 April 1994 and the adoption of our Constitution in 1996 mark the end of an horrific past and the beginning of a season of hope. Central to the events of 1994 and 1996 is a desire for all to be regarded as equal citizens in a land that is devoid of discrimination and human rights abuses by one against another. The acknowledgement of this reality is to be found in the provisions of our Constitution, which states, among other things, that:
The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values: (a) human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms.
These values of freedom and human rights include the right not to be tortured in any way and not to be treated or punished in a cruel, inhumane or degrading fashion.
The Department of Correctional Services is a key player in breaking the cycle of crime in our country. The ANC-led government recognised that the rehabilitation and reskilling of offenders must be central to the department's operations and that the old system of incarceration without rehabilitation as a means of addressing the scourge of crime was short- sighted.
In undertaking its responsibility, the department must always treat those found guilty of being in conflict with the law in a manner that is consistent with the noble ideals of our Constitution and guard against violating the human rights and human dignity of offenders.
In the process of interrogating the estimated R17,7 billion budget of the department, we have an obligation to ensure, firstly, that the planned departmental activity or expenditure is a constitutional requirement; secondly, that the planned activity or expenditure is a requirement of the Correctional Services Act; and, thirdly, that the activity or expenditure is not in contradiction to the Constitution or the Correctional Services Act. The committee is of the view that these principles must serve as a guide to the department in pursuing its obligations.
The chronic overcrowding that currently exists in most of our Correctional Services facilities is an impediment to any chance of a successful rehabilitation programme. Overcrowding is also a violation of a humane and dignified existence for all South Africans, including those who are guilty of having committed a crime and are sentenced to serve time in prison as a result thereof.
In assessing the performance of the Department of Correctional Services, we need to simultaneously examine the impact of decisions and attitudes of role-players outside the Department of Correctional Services. As we speak, roughly 12 000 offenders are sentenced to a term of two years or less, due to their crimes being of a less serious nature. Of these 12 000, approximately 116 are guilty of crimes related to sex, 2 569 are guilty of aggressive crimes and 1 096 are being imprisoned for narcotics. We are not speaking of these 3 781 offenders, but the remaining approximately 8 000 offenders who are guilty of economic or theft-related crimes. These individuals should very often not be in correctional facilities, in our view, but rather be subjected to an alternative sentence, such as correctional supervision, instead of incarceration. We urge the judiciary and the National Prosecuting Authority to seriously consider the option of alternative sentences.
This is because, firstly, the current cost estimate of about R300 per inmate per day to house offenders guilty of lesser crimes amounts to about R1,4 billion per annum. It would be cheaper to take advantage of electronic monitoring of such offenders as they perform their correctional sentences outside of our facilities. [Applause.] We argue that the estimated R1,4 billion in question could then be utilised in the rehabilitation and reskilling of offenders who have a sentence of longer than 24 months.
Secondly, alternative sentences would address the overcrowding crisis in correctional facilities and thereby ensure that rehabilitation had a better chance of success. Thirdly, the reduction of overcrowding would ensure that the human dignity of those who were incarcerated was not violated. Finally, experience shows that incarceration often results in petty criminals or first-time offenders emerging as hardened criminals after their stay in prison, thereby defeating the objective of breaking the cycle of crime and criminality. Alternative sentences make perfect sense, not only from a humanitarian viewpoint but also from the consideration of the cost to the national fiscus.
Another area that requires attention is the consequences of the minimum sentences legislation. More and more offenders are serving longer sentences and, as a result, are spending longer periods in correctional facilities. Also, with the professionalising and ever-improving efficiency of the SA Police Service, more arrests and convictions will arise. We support a more effective police service. However, the effect is that the offender population is bound to increase. Therefore, the problem of overcrowded correctional facilities will remain and, with it, the reality that human dignity and the chance of real rehabilitation will be jeopardised. We think that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development ought to relook the minimum sentence laws under the current, prevailing reality.
Yet another area worth examining is the parole regime, which in the main is also outside the jurisdiction of the department. From the outset, let us appreciate the fact that it is perfectly understandable that victims will, in many instances, be either reluctant to participate in the parole process or even unwilling to forgive the perpetrators of crime. Notwithstanding this fact, the restorative justice principle of necessity requires victim participation for a positive and successful parole ruling. In the absence of victim participation, the granting of parole to deserving offenders becomes very difficult and, as a result, their stay in correctional facilities is extended.
Added to victim participation, there is the important role that society plays. Often communities reject ex-offenders upon their release, thereby alienating and marginalising these members of our society. The chances of finding meaningful employment are also minimal for ex-offenders, because a criminal record makes potential employers reluctant to hire them. This could easily result in ex-offenders reverting to crime for sheer survival. All of us, business and communities, must realise that the consequences of our actions are an eventual exertion of pressure on the capacity capability of existing facilities, resulting in overcrowding, with all the associated challenges of ensuring effective rehabilitation and the safeguarding of human rights and human dignity in Correctional Services facilities.
It is clear that as the final link in the criminal justice chain the Department of Correctional Services has very little control over the population management of offenders. The actions and decisions of the judiciary, the National Prosecuting Authority, the SA Police Service and society as a whole have a direct bearing on overcrowding, which violates the provisions of our Bill of Rights. Our appeal today is for all role- players to have an open mind towards assisting in the achievement of the objectives of the White Paper on Corrections and our Bill of Rights, as well as the realisation of a better South Africa and a better world.
In closing, let me say that the most accurate measure of a nation's commitment to human rights and equality for all is to be found in how it treats those who have wronged society. Our generation is called upon to empower humankind through ensuring equal opportunities and guaranteeing human rights for all, regardless of their station in life. We must never be found guilty of perpetuating the penal system employed during the period of the freed slaves, nor must the department and society revert to the apartheid era thinking of merely "warehousing" offenders. Our actions today will determine the South Africa of tomorrow. God bless Africa. The ANC will support the 2012-13 budget of the Department of Correctional Services. [Applause.]
Thank you, Chairperson. Minister and colleagues, I would like to thank the Minister for a very full report, delivered in that fetching outfit of hers. There is, however, one question that I think she might like to answer at the end of her speech, and that concerns an inmate, Sifiso Zulu. Is Mr Zulu in prison, or is he in hospital? In other words, is he performing a Schabir Shaik sentence or an ordinary one? [Laughter.]
Let me start by agreeing with the hon Smith that if imprisonment has any purpose at all, it must be to rehabilitate offenders. For that reason the White Paper correctly places rehabilitation at the centre of the department's mission.
Does the department in fact rehabilitate offenders? The answer is that we simply don't know, and the department is only now starting to measure this. The evidence suggests that an overwhelming number of inmates in our prisons reoffend in a depressingly short time after their release and this suggests that rehabilitation is not, in fact, working.
This is for the following reasons. Most prisons are overcrowded; there are no sentence plans and, therefore, no rehabilitative programmes for offenders serving less than two years; there are not enough social workers, psychologists and educators; there are not enough inmates working in production workshops or on agricultural projects; and there is also high absenteeism among officials.
The consequence of that is that in many facilities it is the gangs that are in charge of the prisons after lock-up - and in many cases for the whole day as well. The result is that prisons have become the universities of real crime. Most offenders - the hon Smith is right - emerge from prison cleverer, more hardened and more vicious than when they were admitted.
This situation has hardly changed for years. It's certainly not got any better since the White Paper was adopted. The levels of overcrowding remain largely unchanged and have to be dealt with by a special remission of sentences. The levels of reoffending remain unchanged. The excuses advanced by the department about why things can't change remain unchanged.
Minister, there are many dedicated and courageous officials in your department, but there are too many others who are lazy, resistant to transforming the department and deeply corrupt. These are the officials who work with the gangs and allow dangerous offenders to escape. These are the officials who conspire to prevent the insourcing of catering services, thus forcing the department to extend the Bosasa contract. These are the officials who provide scanty and evasive answers to parliamentary questions and portfolio committee inquiries.
Unless these officials change their approach, it will not be possible to rehabilitate inmates and break the cycle of reoffending. The problem is that many officials, and the unions to which they belong, put their narrow self-interests ahead of the interests of the country. The brutal truth is that many officials do not feel a sense of accountability.
How do we turn this situation around? Most fundamentally, we need to understand that crime begins with families. Crime begins when children drop out of school and with the breakdown in the structure of society and of communities. Crime is rooted in poverty and deprivation and hopelessness.
That is why the DA government in the Western Cape has created 174 Mass Participation, Opportunity and Development Centres. This scheme allows youths to stay at certain schools after school hours to play sport or complete their homework under supervision, and to have access to social workers. That is why the Western Cape has the Chrysalis Academy, which provides intervention programmes to youth at risk. These strategies seek to prevent crime at its source.
Even with the best interventions there will still be vicious sociopaths in any society, who belong in prison. But in our case there are tens of thousands of people clogging up our correctional centres who do not belong there. These are the people convicted of petty offences, who have no fixed address, or who cannot afford bail or fines - often set at less than R1 000 - and have to serve prison time instead. The government's approach to this has been to give an across-the-board remission of sentence to 14 651 inmates. Giving a blanket remission of sentences sends out the wrong message. It trivialises the sentences of the courts, it is an insult to victims of crime and it undermines the deterrent effect of imprisonment. There are much better ways of reducing prison overcrowding and enhancing the rehabilitation of offenders.
Firstly, we need to divert as many young, nonviolent and first-time offenders out of the criminal justice system as possible. Valuable work is already being done on this, but more resources need to be made available to nongovernmental organisations to enable them to provide diversion courses on a wider and more sustained basis.
Secondly, and here I agree again with the hon Smith, we must develop a system of noncustodial sentences of community service. Such sentences should be disagreeable, so as to constitute a real deterrent. Offenders should work in hospitals, hospices and morgues; they should paint schools and clear graveyards; they should visibly pay back to society what they have taken from it.
However, magistrates will only feel confident of handing down sentences of community service if they are satisfied that the offenders will perform that service and that they will be properly supervised. This means that the roll-out of the inmate tracking devices must be accelerated - I am very pleased with what the Minister said - and that the Community Corrections Branch must be properly resourced and managed. At the moment, that is not happening.
Thirdly, we must work systematically towards the negotiation of prison transfer agreements, starting with other Southern African Development Community countries. Last year, there were nearly 5 000 sentenced foreign nationals in our prisons and a further nearly 4 000 foreign nationals were remanded in custody. By contrast, at the same time there were only 965 South Africans serving sentences in foreign states. Transferring foreign nationals to their countries of origin would save about R2,2 million per day and ease overcrowding. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Fourthly, all inmates must either attend educational programmes or work, or preferably do both. [Interjections.] Offenders must make their own clothes, maintain their own facilities, grow their own food and, very importantly, cook it as well. Prisons only work when prisoners work, but at the moment too many prisoners lie on their beds and watch television, in between being served meals provided by companies who fleece the taxpayer. No wonder offenders reoffend. [Interjections.]
Fifthly, we must isolate first-time offenders who are serving relatively short sentences from repeat offenders and those serving longer sentences. I was pleased to hear what the Minister had to say in this regard. I know that there are some gang leaders who are able to recruit newly convicted inmates in the trucks coming from the courts. If we are serious about rehabilitation, we must try to minimise the stranglehold of the gangs to the greatest extent possible.
Sixthly, we must provide proper rehabilitative services, in partnership with the private sector and NGOs. There are serious skills shortages in the department, but there are many South Africans who are keen to volunteer their skills and we must make it easy for them to do so.
Finally - and here again I agree with the hon Smith - we need to re-examine the issue of criminal records, which very often prevent released offenders from obtaining employment and which drive up the rates of reoffending. We should look at "second-chance" legislation such as what has been enacted in the United States, which allows criminal records to be expunged if the offender adheres to parole conditions.
Minister, these are some of the ways in which we can relieve overcrowding responsibly and improve the chances of rehabilitation. We accept that some of these matters concern the cluster, but you introduced your speech by saying that you were committed to an integrated approach to dealing with these problems. We want to see you in the forefront, leading the charge, in making these things happen. I thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, Deputy Minister and members, I want to state upfront that I am fairly new in this committee. Of course, it deals with some of the issues that I know very well, so if ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Hey, hey! Shut up!
Hon member, can you take your seat, please? I want to remind hon members that we are in a formal sitting of the House. Hon member, you can't say, "Shut up!" to another member. I want you to withdraw it, please. You know who you are. [Interjections.] Sir, you must formally get up and then withdraw it.
I withdraw it, Chair.
Thank you. You may continue, hon member.
Thanks, Chairperson, but I think you should add another minute to my time.
Cope agrees with the Strategic Plan of the department, when it states that its mission is:
To contribute to maintaining and protecting a just, peaceful and safe society by enforcing decisions and sentences of courts in the manner prescribed in legislation, by detaining all inmates in safe custody while ensuring their human dignity, and by promoting the rehabilitation, social responsibility and human development of all offenders.
Cope believes that the core mandate of the department is to rehabilitate, and the social reintegration of inmates. We further believe that rehabilitation and social integration require all stakeholders to be involved. However, we have been worried because this programme has been poorly funded. It cannot be second from the bottom when it is the core mandate of the department! This department used to be a prison service, where rehabilitation and social integration were not part of its vocabulary. With this democratic government, human rights must always be upheld.
We thank the department for introducing the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services. However, we are worried about the manner in which it is structured. Firstly, the power vested in this commission is insufficient. And then, why does it not operate like the Independent Police Investigative Directorate? It is not accountable to the people that it investigates. I would say that the results expected will not be achieved, because the complaints of the prisoners, the inmates, are about the officials, but the inspectorate reports to the officials. That cannot be correct!
While rehabilitation and social integration require every stakeholder to be involved, many stakeholders were caught by surprise at the announcement of the reduction of sentences by the President of the Republic a few weeks ago. Many of these stakeholders are still asking questions with regard to the announcement. The announcement raised many serious questions.
The Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services was also surprised, even though it is an important stakeholder of the department. We accept that it is the President's prerogative to make such an announcement, but that should have been subject to a process of broad consultation, because the repercussions will affect many of us.
We are reminded of the reduction in sentences made by Presidents of the Republic previously. The reasons given were political. We have waited patiently to hear the reasons for this action, but unfortunately nothing has been forthcoming. Our understanding is that one plays politics in order to be popular. However, we do not believe that this is the reason for this announcement.
The aftereffects of this remission have negatively affected the normal business of the organisation - which is this department - in regard to rehabilitation and have disorganised smooth social reintegration. Officials of the department are on their own in ensuring that this announcement is implemented. One official, Mr Makgoba, was pleading with communities to accept released inmates back into the communities that they had come from.
That was when I realised that something had gone terribly wrong. When you have partners ... [Interjections.] So what! When you have partners, you involve them in the process of releasing prisoners. You cannot have partners when it is good for you, but leave them out when it is not! Cope believes that the stakeholders could have been part of this process. This announcement would then have been correct, on time and applaudable.
What we can safely say is that these released inmates will be back in prison before long, or they are back already. How do you know the environment they came from? Can you guarantee that they will be accepted into the communities that they came from? A person had three meals yesterday - can you guarantee that they will have a meal tomorrow? [Interjections.]
In all fairness, an insufficient consultative process was followed in regard to the released prisoners. Allow me to call this ill-advised planning, which will cost this country dearly. There is the question of whether the victims' rights were considered in this process, and the answer is no! What do you think the reaction of the victim will be when he or she sees the person who violated his or her rights? Is this not setting up the offenders against the victims?
The process requires a thorough consultative process, Minister. In this case, I am very disappointed because not even the portfolio committee discussed it! [Interjections.] I am in the portfolio committee. That is why I have a right to know that there are inmates who are going to be released! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
They are out of order, Chair! [Interjections.] What happened to the halfway-house project, Minister?
Order, hon members! Give the hon member an opportunity to be heard.
What happened to the halfway-house project, Minister? Why are released prisoners, inmates, normally sent to halfway houses? It is in order to start the integration process. It is so that they can be integrated! Where is your National Institute for Crime Prevention and the Reintegration of Offenders, Nicro, which is a very important partner in this process? Why were they not consulted? Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Thank you, Chairperson. In regard to rehabilitation, in order to fulfil the core business of the department, offenders must know that rehabilitation is the core business of the department. The Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services has taken the position that every offender should be rehabilitated. All offenders must accept that this is the core function of the department and its goal.
When the committee visited the centres, the most important aspect of the visit was to emphasise education as a means of acquiring knowledge. All those offenders who think that they're going to get free meals without being educated and freeing themselves for future purposes will be disappointed. Centres are not hotels. Offenders must bear in mind that they should use their time to be educated so that they will be rehabilitated and be prepared for the future.
The IFP is strongly opposed to giving parole to crooks - izinswelaboya. Those offenders who solicited money by the wrong means and were found guilty should by no means be pardoned. The offenders we give pardon to should be those who are serving sentences of less than three years for what they have done. Rapists, murderers, crooks and car-heist offenders - izinswelaboya - should by no means be pardoned. [Laughter.] You know who I am talking about. The police work very hard to arrest these people and prosecute them - they work under very difficult circumstances. We cannot just let them go free because we think they should go free.
The IFP sympathises with those offenders who are very sick and who have been certified by doctors as being really sick. They can be allowed to go home under strict conditions. Terminally ill offenders cannot become boxers and golf players when they are in prison or in centres, and then players when they are out of the centres! [Laughter.]
The department should fight corruption by its members, no matter what their position. Staff members who are corrupt must be fired with immediate effect, Minister. It is corruption to promote a member because of favours. It's corruption to extend the contract of a service provider without following proper procedures. That is corruption! It is corruption to use offenders without giving them any benefit whatsoever. We have to stop corruption whenever and wherever it takes place.
This department is at the tail end of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster. Therefore the planning of the department should be such that it has a good budget. We should also bear in mind that we are working with human resources - we are not working with things, but with people. Therefore the right people for the budget should be acquired at the end of the day. This leads me to the dilapidated buildings and to not having proper equipment to safeguard offenders. Staff and offenders should feel safe while they are in the centres. Members of staff must enjoy coming to work because of the environment they work in, and their equipment should be in order so that they are able to do the work properly.
Relations between the Judicial Inspectorate and the department must be improved. The reports forwarded to the department by the inspectorate must be done timeously and using good resources, because nobody must just do as they want. [Inaudible.] The committee cannot allow members of staff to do as they want while they are employed by the department. Any corrupt official must be dealt with immediately without fear or favour.
The last point, Chairperson, before you say my time is finished, is the seven-day establishment. I hope the department has come to an agreement about the seven-day establishment. If not, something has to be done, because the committee will not allow the abuse of power and sick leave by staff members just because the agreement has not been finalised. This goes together with the vetting of staff members who are employed by the department. The department must work very hard to overcome these problems. I thank you, Chairperson.
The Deputy Minister of correctional Services: Hon Chairperson; hon Minister of Correctional Services; hon chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services; Judge Tshabalala, Inspecting Judge of Correctional Services; Judge Desai, chairperson of the National Council on Correctional Services, and members of the council; Commissioner Tom Moyane and officers of the department; all invited guests; esteemed members of the media; comrades and friends, even across the Table; allow me to join the multitudes who have dipped their banners to salute the late Nyanda and Chabaku, who in their life and death epitomise the resilience of the indomitable spirit of our people. In saluting them I salute all the heroines, the mothers of our country, who continue to bravely soldier on in the quest to make South Africa a better and safer place than yesterday.
As we pass the midterm of this administration, it is appropriate that we report today on the work done so far and indicate that the Correctional Services plans tabled in Parliament this year focus on the implementation of various initiatives taken under the leadership of Minister Mapisa- Nqakula.
The logic of the mandate of Correctional Services is premised on three legs: remand detention, correctional incarceration and social reintegration. The first and last have been delegated to me, hence they are the focus of my address today.
Regarding the management of remand detention, we have taken the significant step of proclaiming, through publication in the Government Gazette of 27 February 2012, 26 dedicated remand detention facilities across the country, and 109 centres have been authorised to establish remand detention sections with effect from 1 March 2012.
The department must lay the basis for effective resource and infrastructure planning for remand detention - by generating accurate statistics on the bed space allocated to remand detention; by developing an appropriate staffing model for remand detention facilities; by submitting dedicated budget estimates for the remand detention function; and by focusing on performance measurement in relation to remand detention.
To map the location of the remand detention facilities and remand detention sections vis--vis the location of courts and to balance the court caseload with the capacity of remand detention facilities, cluster co-operation is critical to enhancing compliance with our Constitution and other legal prescripts for the effective management of remand processes.
The draft White Paper on Remand Detention has been extensively edited and submitted to the Minister for approval and for external consultation, including consultation with the portfolio committee. In essence, this White Paper states government's long-term vision of remand detention as a distinct function, governed by different constitutional and international instrument imperatives from those that govern correctional incarceration and community corrections.
Some of the principal policy positions in the draft White Paper have already been embedded in legislation in the Correctional Matters Amendment Act. However, it is necessary for the department to have a single strategic policy document that codifies the long-term vision, so that managers who work in this field have a constant lodestar to refer to. The draft White Paper is the result of the past six years of focused work on the challenges of managing remand detention in South Africa.
The department has been working on the remand detention organisational structure, with the funding and filling of posts in the approved Head Office Remand Detention Branch already started. The departmental restructuring project will take on the process, with draft remand detention organisational structures - for regions, management areas and remand detention facilities - already developed. A national workshop on the draft remand detention organisational structures was held at the end of February 2012 with department regions and remand detention centres.
Remand detention is now a distinct budget subprogramme enabling the focused resourcing of this function. As per the Estimates of National Expenditure, an indicative figure for the remand detention subprogramme is R618 million. [Interjections.] Is that Mr Mnguni? He was struggling to get through his speech. The head office branch allocation is R11,4 million for the compensation of personnel, goods and services, payment of capital assets and contract obligations. The regional allocation for the compensation of employees, R33,5 million, covers the 2 789 employees working in the demarcated remand detention facilities. The bulk of the budget allocation will be utilised for the services that the department is obliged to provide to remand detainees. The department is currently in the process of determining the budget estimates going forward.
The criminal justice system review process has significance for the department, in particular for the management of remand detention. In the past year, the CJS review team has been instrumental in the development of two protocols, namely the protocol on the maximum incarceration periods for remand detainees and the protocol on the referral of terminally ill or severely incapacitated remand detainees to court. This is to enable the department to put sections 49E and 49G of the Correctional Matters Amendment Act of 2011 into operation.
However, hon members will recall that these two sections of the Amendment Act have not as yet been promulgated, since their promulgation is dependent on a number of factors ... [Interjections.]
Hon Deputy Minister, you have two minutes left. [Interjections.]
The Deputy Minister of correctional Services: While the protocol on maximum detention periods is being finalised, the department has been developing the ability to measure the length of detention of remand detainees. A brief look at the average number of remand detainees per detention period for April 2012 is informative. Only 49% of the detainees spent three months or less in remand detention, this being the time period that the Criminal Procedure Act has determined as acceptable.
Chairperson, I would like to respond to the issue of parole and remission. [Interjections.] Remission is a universally acceptable practice. It is done universally. We are not unique in doing it, and there are prescribed procedures for and ways of effecting remissions. That does not include what the hon Mnguni has been valiantly trying to convince us to do here! [Interjections.]
In any event, Chairperson, remission is not a substitute for other management issues in prisons, such as overcrowding and so on. So, it should not be seen as an alternative to what the hon Selfe has suggested. Those are concrete steps that we are taking in terms of our programmes in the department. I wish to thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I want to say to the hon Minister that I understand that she wants to be associated with her department. However, if I look at your uniform and your epaulettes, Minister, I see you are a warden, and if I look at your collar, you are a commissioner! So, please don't go and stand in front of a mirror, because you will have to salute yourself! [Laughter.] I also want to say that I hope that next year you won't appear here in front of the House in an overall in trying to associate with your department. [Laughter.] So, that is on a lighter note, Minister.
I also want to say to the hon Smith that the message of this afternoon is the wrong message. What we are telling the criminals out there is that they should just ensure that they overcrowd the prisons, and then they will get lighter sentences. That is the message we are sending out today. That undermines the criminal justice system in South Africa and we cannot allow that.
Ons moet vir mekaar s dat daar slagoffers is vir elke misdaad wat gepleeg word. Ons moenie dink dat as dit 'n geringe misdaad was, daar nie gevolge is nie. Selfs geringe misdade het traumatiese gevolge vir die slagoffers van daardie misdade. Ons kan nie s dat ons ons op grondwetlike beginsels en die Grondwet se beskerming beroep as ons vrywillig van daardie regte afstand doen nie. Almal van ons het keuses in die lewe, en as jy die verkeerde keuse maak, agb Minister, moet jy die volle gevolge en verantwoordelikheid van jou keuse dra. Ja, omstandighede kan verskil, maar feit is dat die misdadiger self daardie keuse maak. As ek dit s en jy stem saam, moenie dan die President toejuig as hy afslag gee op vonnisse wat gelewer is nie. Moenie dan kom met die argument dat, omdat ons gevangenisse oorbevolk is, ons die gevangenes moet vrylaat en ander metodes moet kry nie. Beplan vroegtydig, vir die lange duur, om te verseker dat ons die strafregstelsel in Suid-Afrika ook sy volle verantwoordelikheid laat nakom.
Dit is so dat daar 'n herintegreringsprogram moet wees vir die mense wat daar binne is. Hulle moet daarna weer 'n bydrae tot die samelewing kan lewer. Agb Minister, ek wil ook vir u s dat u nou daarmee begin, maar dit is ook amper te min te laat. Dit is die feite. Daar is organisasies soos die Nasionale Instituut insake Misdaadvoorkoming en die Rehabilitasie van Oortreders, Nimro, wat goeie, professionele dienste lewer; wat goeie suksessyfers het. Ek wil vir u s om hierdie probleem gedeeltelik op te los, moet u sorg dat u kundige mense aanstel wat hierdie programme kan bedryf. Sorg dat genoeg mense aangestel word, gegewe die groot oorbevolking wat ons het. Dan mag dit dalk beter gaan om hul meer suksesvol in die samelewing te herintegreer. Ek dank u. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[We have to say to each other that with every crime committed, there will be victims. We should not think that if it was an insignificant crime, there will not be repercussions. Even insignificant crimes have traumatic consequences for the victims of those crimes. We cannot invoke constitutional principles and the Constitution's protection if we willingly renounce those rights. We all have choices in life and if you make a wrong choice, hon Minister, you must face the full consequences of your actions.
Yes, circumstances may differ, but the fact of the matter is that the criminal himself has made that choice. If I say this and you agree, don't then applaud the President for granting a reduction on sentences that have been handed down. Don't then come with the argument that, because our prisons are overcrowded, we should free prisoners and find other methods. Plan early on, for the long term, to ensure that we allow the criminal justice system in South Africa to discharge its full responsibility.
It is also true that there should be a programme for the reintegration of the people who are inside. They should be able to make a contribution to society afterwards. Hon Minister, I would say to you that you should start with that now, but that it also almost too little, too late. These are the facts. There are organisations such as the National Institute for Crime Prevention and Rehabilitation of Offenders, Nicro, that render a good and professional service and have a great success rate. I would say that, in order to solve this problem in part, you should appoint skilled people to manage this programme. With the massive overcrowding that we are experiencing, see to it that enough people are appointed. Maybe then matters will improve as far as their successful reintegration into society is concerned. I thank you. [Interjections.]]
Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Order, hon members!
Sihlalo, ngivumele nami ngibhonge emswaneni ngomama uFlora Nyanda, obekade esebenza nathi ngokukhulu ukuzikhandla, ukuzimisela kanye nangokwethembeka kuleli komidi lokuLungiswa kweziMilo - ngithi makalale ngoxolo. Ngivumele futhi ngisho kumama, uMfundisi Motlalepula Chabaku ngithi nakuyena lala ngoxolo.
Sihlalo, ukwaphulelwa isigwebo kanye nohlelo lokubuyiselwa kweziboshwa emphakathini kusalokhu namanje kuludaba olusondelene kakhulu nenhliziyo yami. Angeke-ke silivimbele iqiniso elithi labo abayiziboshwa ngesinye isikhathi kuyomele babuyele emphakathini. Ngakho-ke kumele iziboshwa kanye nemiphakathi bakwazi ukusilungiselela lesi simo. UMnyango kumele ukwazi ukwenza konke ngomgomo wePhepha loMthetho oHlongozwayo [White Paper] kanye nazo zonke izingxenye zoMthetho WokuHlunyeleliswa kweziMilo ongunombolo 111 we-1998 ukulungiselela isimo sokuphindiselwa kweziboshwa emphakathini.
Sihlalo, kumele sisho ukuthi ziseningi izingqinamba ezibhekene neziboshwa ngaphakathi ezikhungweni kanye nasemphakathini ezibuyela kuwona. Ngaphakathi ezikhungweni ezinye iziboshwa zibhekene nezinkinga ezithintana neKomidi lokuPhathwa kwamaCala [Case Management Committee] namaBhodi okwaPhulwa kweziGwebo, kanye nokungatholakali kwezinhlelo zokulungiswa kwezimilo kulabo abasuke begwetshwe isikhathi esingaphansi kwezinyanga ezingamashumi amabili nane. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Ms W NGWENYA: Chairperson, please allow me to mourn the death of Mrs Flora Nyanda and also to pay tribute to her. She worked very hard with us in the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services. She was very dedicated and reliable in the performance of her duties. May she rest in peace. Please allow me to also pay tribute to Ms Motlalepula Chabaku, who was a reverend. May she also rest in peace.
Chairperson, granting parole to prisoners and their rehabilitation programme have always been close to my heart. We cannot prevent their reassimilation into society. Therefore, prisoners themselves and society in general must be prepared for this eventuality. The Department must be able to do all this in accordance with the policy set out in the relevant White Paper and all aspects of the Correctional Services Act, No 111 of 1998. This must be done to facilitate the process of assimilating prisoners into society.
We have to state that prisoners still face many problems in correctional centres and the communities they go back to. In correctional centres they have to deal with problems pertaining to the case management committee and parole boards. Another hurdle is the lack of correctional facilities for those serving sentences shorter than 24 months.]
Chairperson, we are aware that a number of case management committee members in our facilities are not trained for those positions, hence some of their decisions frustrate offenders and are questionable. On our oversight visit, offenders informed us about how they were being chased from pillar to post by the case management committee. We hope the department will look into this as a matter of urgency. I must also say I am glad that the Minister also raised this point in our interaction with her in our portfolio committee meeting on 25 April 2012.
Chairperson, let me talk about the parole boards again. During our oversight visit to different correctional facilities across the country, we got complaints from offenders about the inconsistency in the application of parole by different parole boards. We heard of cases where offenders requested transfers to other centres simply because the parole boards at those centres were more lenient or flexible than the parole board where they were incarcerated.
Chairperson, our country witnessed an example of some of the anomalies I am referring to when two of the Waterkloof Four were released to serve the remainder of their sentences under correctional supervision while the other two still languished in prison. I would like to encourage the department to look into the inconsistencies of the parole boards as a matter of urgency.
I am also pleased that the Minister has made it her priority to ensure that a comprehensive performance monitoring system for the parole boards is put in place to ensure accountability and to identify and address problems experienced with incompetence in practice in a timely manner, especially such problems as was experienced in the Waterkloof Four case.
As indicated earlier on, the majority of those behind bars will be released at some stage in their lifetime. As we heard on Freedom Day, President Jacob Zuma announced a special remission of sentence of six months for all offenders, including probationers, parolees and day parolees, as well as an additional 12 months' remission for certain categories of offenders, probationers, parolees and day parolees.
On Thursday last week, 10 May 2012, we witnessed the first group of prisoners to benefit from special remission being released from the Johannesburg female prison in Gauteng. Those are young women - daughters and sisters - who fell foul of the law. We hope they will use the skills they have learned during their incarceration to better themselves outside and contribute positively to society. I would like to encourage our communities to support and nurture these women in their reintegration back into society. The question that must be answered is: Do we expect these people to make any meaningful contribution to their communities when they are released from prison?
Victims of crime are an important stakeholder in the administration of the criminal justice system in our country. They should be consulted and afforded an opportunity to make representations during the parole hearings of those who offended against them. It cannot be business as usual when the majority of the victims, because of circumstances beyond their control, are not afforded the opportunity to make representations during the parole applications of offenders.
As I indicated in my previous budget speech, as a country we need to move away from a position of treating victims just as state witnesses or as a source of information. More needs to be done to educate our communities about the important right afforded to victims of various crimes to make representations during parole hearings of offenders.
As we go on with this campaign to educate our communities about victims' rights, we also need to educate our communities about parole and the supervision of parolees in our communities. We also need to educate our communities about the importance of restorative justice and the acceptance of offenders back into our communities. Sihlalo, ngiyabonga. [Chairperson, thank you.] The ANC supports the budget. [Applause.]
Chairperson, we have a massive problem in South Africa with regard to crime, which takes various forms. After the Department of Police and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development have done their part, we rely on Correctional Services to take over and keep inmates, whom we often refer to as prisoners or criminals.
Prisons are correctional facilities and must therefore focus on rehabilitating inmates so that when they go back to society, they are ready to accept normal standards of living.
We must recognise and accept that criminals, as we like to call them, are the products of many dysfunctional aspects of our homes, our schools and our society. They are part of us. They are our children, our brothers, our sisters, our fathers, our mothers, our uncles and our aunts. Most of all, they are human. How we treat them in our prisons is an extension of how we value and treat each other as humans and as a society.
Of course, there is no arguing with the fact that for criminal conduct punitive measures must be applied. But I argue that being cast into prison is punitive enough, without having to live in conditions that are unbearable and inhumane for the prisoners. The overcrowding in prisons is a real issue and must be addressed if we hope to produce rehabilitated members of society.
There are lessons to be learnt from other parts of the world. Prisons in Namibia carry out a practical correctional philosophy and practice. Inmates live comfortably and eat good food, part of which comes from prison farms and industries. Their correctional services are said to be better funded, more humane and more goal-orientated.
We must align our perceptions of who we think prisoners are with this. Everyone desires a life and society free from crime, but that will not be attained through the harsh treatment of prisoners or the disregard of their human rights. The ultimate purpose of prison services is to keep inmates; reform, reorientate and rehabilitate them; and empower them to be law- abiding and productive members of society on release from prison. The UCDP supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Ministers, national commissioner, Inspecting Judge of Correctional Services, members of the National Council on Correctional Services, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you.
Sihlalo, angicale ngaloku lokubaluleke kakhulu. Tsine njengaKhongolose siyalijabulela Leliphakelo leletfulwa nguLelitiko. Siyabonga. [Applause.] (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.) [Chairperson, let me start with what is more important. We as the ANC are happy with the Budget Vote presented by this department. We thank you.]
Chairperson, let me also join the Minister, the Deputy Minister and members of Parliament in taking this moment to honour the memory of Comrade Mama Nyanda, who was a member of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services. She served this committee with distinction. May her soul rest in peace.
The Constitution of this country, in section 35(2)(e), provides clearly that everyone who is detained, including every sentenced prisoner, has a right to "conditions of detention that are consistent with human dignity", including the provision of adequate accommodation at state expense. Clearly, conditions in our prisons as they currently stand are in direct violation of this section of our Constitution, considering the level of overcrowding in our facilities.
In their annual report for 2010-11, the Office of the Inspecting Judge indicated that, at the end of March 2011, a total of 18 centres were critically overcrowded, by 200% or more, and recommended that these centres should be prioritised.
In addition, the report indicated that there was an uneven distribution of inmates nationally in our correctional centres. I would like to call upon the Department of Correctional Services to look into this as a matter of urgency. I am certain that the transfer of offenders to centres that are far from their families will cause problems, but I hope there will be a reasonable compromise on this issue. I am convinced that it is better to have offenders far from their families and have decent conditions of detention, where they are able to access rehabilitation programmes in a conducive environment, than it is to have them in overcrowded facilities where rehabilitation is a pipe dream because of the conditions in those centres.
Chairperson, I also want to indicate that this is good not only for the offenders but also for their families and society in general. I say this because once offenders are rehabilitated, we can at least be sure that society will be safe when they are released. This is in line with Outcome 3 - that everybody in South Africa should feel safe and be safe.
We seem to have more people going into prison than people leaving prison. This could partly be because of the inefficiencies and inconsistencies of our parole boards and case management committees. I hope the department will take a serious look at these entities.
I must also indicate that I am happy that our President, Comrade Jacob Zuma, has announced a special remission of sentence of six months for all offenders, including probationers and parolees, and a further 12 months for certain categories of offenders. This will indeed alleviate overcrowding in our facilities to some extent. That was good, Chairperson, and we thank the President for remembering our offenders.
Kodvwa-ke,Nngijabhile ngelilunga lelihloniphekile Mnguni. Ngesikhatsi Indvuna isitjela kutsi kutakwenteka loko bekusengakenteki. Nawe, bewukhona, sadzimate sabonga satsi Indvuna isetsembile, satsi sibonga kakhulu ngaloku lekushoko.
Lengitakutjela kona-ke, Mnguni kutsi wena ngeke uze ube nguMengameli, ngeke wena ukwati kukhulula tiboshwa. Loko kwentiwa ngumuntfu longuMengameli welive kuphela. Nangabe bewucabanga kutsi ungakwenta loko, ngitsi kuwe klibhi klololo! Kukudze engcoseni.
Angiphindze ngisho futsi kutsi, kulesibonelelo sekukhululwa kwetiboshwa lesiletfwa nguMengameli, siyabonga kakhulu kuwe, Mengameli. Futsi-ke, usite tsine ngobe bese kugcwele kakhulu lapha emajele.
Ngimangaliiswe nanguBabe Ndlovu, kutsi abite bantfu ngekutsi tinswela boya ngisho nome sebasekulungisweni! [Tandla.] Labantfu basemajele alelitiko, lelitiko phela alifanani nakucala lapho wawutsi nawungena khona wesabe, ngobe vele kwakwesabeka. Lapha kulungisiswa similo semuntfu kutsi sicondze. Nome ngabe bekayinswela boya, kodvwa nase alapha, uyakhiwa angabe asaba ngiyo inswelaboya. Ngako-ke, esh! Leligama lekutsi bakhulule tinswelaboya alikangiphatsi kahle mine kwekutsi bakhulula tinswela boya. Bantfu phela laba, bayaphila. Labanye babo banaketfu nome bodzadzewetfu. Loko labakonile bayakuvuma, batisole ngako futsi bafise nekuphuma batiletse bona emphakatsini. Kodvwa- ke labo labaphindze bagange siphindze sibabutse futsi sibabuyisele emajele. Ngobe phela kusho kutsi lesimilo sisuke sisengakalungi kahle hle, kusuke kusafuna siphindze silungisiswe. [LihlombeTandla.]
Awu! Babe Groenewald, uyapitiliza bo! Uyapitiliza lunga lelihloniphekile, kodvwa angikusoli. Wentiwa kutsi awuzange sewulubeke lwakho lunyawo ekomidini. Upitiliza nje, tonkhe letintfo lotipitiliza ngato atingeni nakancane kuletintfo lesihlale sitikhuluma imihla nemalanga. N giyabona kutsi nawucala nje kupitiliza, kufuneka bese sitfola umhumushi atesichazela kutsi loku lokupitilizako k usho kutsini. [Kuhlaba Lulwimi.] [Luhleko.] Uyabona-ke Sihlalo? (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)
[I am disappointed with the hon member Mnguni. When the Minister tells us what is going to happen, that does not mean it has already happened. You were also present - we even thanked the Minister for trusting us and we said thank you very much for what she said.
What I want to say to you, hon Mnguni, is that you are not the President and you cannot give parole to offenders. That is done only by the person who is the President of the country. If you thought you could do it, I am saying to you that will never happen.
Let me reiterate that for the provision of parole to offenders, which was extended by the President, we say thank you very much, Mr President. You helped us a lot because the prisons are overcrowded.
I was also surprised by Mr Ndlovu. He referred to people as thugs even though those people were in rehabilitation. [Applause.] Those people are in correctional centres of the department, and this department is no longer the same as before, when you would have been terrified when you got inside, because it was indeed terrifying. It is now a place where a person's behaviour is rehabilitated. Even though a person was a thug, when he is in there, he will be rehabilitated and he will change.
Therefore, I am not comfortable with the use of the phrase, "thugs are released!" These are people; they are alive. Some of them are our brothers and sisters. They acknowledged that they were guilty; they showed remorse and they want to be released and integrate themselves into the community. Those who offend again are arrested and sent back to prison. This means that their character has not been properly rehabilitated; it needs more rehabilitation. [Applause.]
Oh no, Mr Groenewald, you are prattling! You are prattling, hon member, but I don't blame you. The reason you are doing this is that you have never been to the committee. What you are saying is not part of the things we talk about daily in the committee. I think we should get an interpreter to interpret your prattling as soon as you start talking. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Can you see that, Chairperson?]
Order! Hon members, discuss things softly, please! [Interjections.]
Chairperson, remand detention is another issue ... [Interjections.]
Order! Hon member, there is a point of order. What is your point of order?
Chairperson, my point of order is: What does "kupitiliza" ["prattling"] mean? [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Order, please! Members on my right, please keep quiet! I want to hear this point of order. What is your point of order?
Is it parliamentary to say "pitiliza"? ["prattling"?]
That is not a point of order. Kupitiliza [prattling] means, er ... [Interjections.] That is not a point of order. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo ... [Thank you, Chairperson] ... [Interjections.]
Order, please! Order! Please, discuss matters softly. This is the last time I am requesting you to do so. [Interjections.]
Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Nangita lapha vele bengihlomile. Bengiphetse wami phiphizinyefu. Lilunga lelihloniphekile, Mnguni, alitiphatse kahle. [Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.]
[Thank you, Chairperson. I was thoroughly prepared when I came here. I brought my weapon. The hon member Mnguni must behave appropriately.]
Remand detention is another issue that I would like to talk about. I must congratulate the department for taking the initiative to introduce the legislation strengthening the remand detention system in South Africa. I must indicate that I am happy that this legislation will fix the time spent by awaiting-trial inmates ...
You have one minute left.
Please keep in mind Mr Mnguni's disturbance! [Interjections.] Currently, many of our remand detainees spend a considerable amount of time awaiting trial in prison, with no access to programmes and limited access to health care and nutrition services, as well as other support services required. I would like to say that we in the ANC support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Order! Order, please! Order!
Chairperson, the Preamble to the South African Constitution ... [Interjections.]
Give him a hearing! Members on my right, please give the hon member a hearing.
Chairperson, the Preamble to the South African Constitution recognises the injustices of our country's past. The differentiation made between race groups was central to the divisions that existed and, to a large extent, still exist in our country and is, furthermore, a source of grave insult to the dignity of our people, particularly black people. In South Africa, these differences were prevalent in all spheres of society. They determined people's voting rights, where they could reside, where they could own property, their social status, the jobs for which they could apply, the amount of their pension and the quality of their children's education.
The objective of section 9 of the Constitution is to ensure that all people are equal, regardless of their conscience, religion, thought, belief or political opinion.
The Employment Equity Act recognises that as a result of apartheid and other discriminatory laws and practices, there are disparities in employment, occupation and income in the national labour market. These disparities cause severe disadvantages to certain groups and need to be corrected. Hence, section 2 of the Employment Equity Act defines beneficiaries of affirmative action as designated groups.
Section 1 of the Employment Equity Act defines designated groups to mean black people, women and people with disabilities. However, the Employment Equity Act continues and provides that the term "black people" is inclusive of Africans, coloureds, and Indians. With regard to the Employment Equity Act, it can thus be concluded that the apartheid system unfairly discriminated against Africans, coloureds, Indians, women and people with disabilities.
It is accordingly submitted that the Employment Equity Act's objective is to promote the constitutional right of equality and the achievement of a diverse and broadly representative workforce in South Africa, by affording equal opportunities to the designated group.
As a result, the Department of Correctional Services, among other departments, was compelled to produce an equity plan to adhere to the Employment Equity Act. Given recent newspaper reports, it is common knowledge that the equity plan of the Department of Correctional Services is the central point of a dispute between members of the Department of Correctional Services. This equity plan apparently resulted in the freezing of coloured appointments and promotions in the Western Cape and has also had the effect that no coloured regional commissioners and chief deputy commissioners were appointed in the Department of Correctional Services.
Our former President, Nelson Mandela, said the following, and I quote:
If we had any hopes or illusions about the National Party before they came into office, we were disabused of them quickly ... The arbitrary and meaningless tests to decide black from Coloured or Coloured from white often resulted in tragic cases ... Where one was allowed to live and work could rest on such absurd [classifications and] distinctions as the curl of one's hair or the size of one's lips.
Given the Department of Correctional Services' equity plan, it can safely be concluded that this plan portrays exactly what our beloved former President Mandela and others fought against. Former President Mandela also said the following during the Rivonia Trial, and I quote:
I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons will live together in harmony with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for, and to see realised. But, my Lord, if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.
The Department of Correctional Services' equity plan is clearly against the ideals of former President Nelson Mandela and what he envisaged.
We furthermore believe that the equity plan of the Department of Correctional Services is against the objectives of the Employment Equity Act, which envisages equal treatment of the designated groups, inclusive of Africans, coloureds, Indians, women and people with disabilities. The equity plan creates a policy of first among equals. The policy has no place in law or in morality. The offender population of the Western Cape is about 27 500 and, to a great extent, reflects the composition of the community of the Western Cape. It can thus be assumed that the majority are Afrikaans-speaking. The ultimate objective of the Department of Correctional Services is to rehabilitate offenders. If this is true, how can rehabilitation be achieved if those charged with that responsibility cannot speak the language of those who need to be rehabilitated?
Why should citizens of this country, and in particular members of Correctional Services who feel that they are wronged by this equity plan, go to court and seek relief just to be treated equally?
Why is it that the ANC-led government is unwilling to address this issue head-on and solve it in the interests of service delivery and nation- building? It is obvious that no political will and leadership exist in the ANC government to unite our diverse communities!
These members are not asking for preferential treatment - they are begging for equal treatment! [Interjections.] They are not asking for hand-outs - they are begging for an equal opportunity to make a contribution to a better South Africa. [Interjections.]
Order! Order, please! Hon member, you have two minutes left.
The treatment that these members of Correctional Services receive from their employer constitutes a grave insult to their dignity. This treatment may, in fact, promote notions of racial inferiority and lead to politics of racial hostility among members of Correctional Services.
The DA is the only party that embraces the ideals of Madiba. [Interjections.] The DA has proved itself to be one of the institutions that defends and protects our Constitution and acknowledges the disadvantages that the iniquitous laws of the past created. [Interjections.]
Members, please!
The DA is a party that stands for an open and equal society. We believe the implementation of the Department of Correctional Services' equity plan is against the will and spirit of the Constitution, which in its Preamble states that "South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity". Contrary to ANC practices, the DA believes in one nation, one future, where everybody has an opportunity ...
Agb Voorsitter ... [Hon Chairperson ...]
Order, please. What is your point of order?
Voorsitter, ek wil hoor of die agb lid bereid is om 'n vraag te beantwoord. Dis 'n baie maklike vraag. Ek wil net weet hoekom die DA regstellende aksie ondersteun het. [Chairperson, I would like to know whether the hon member is willing to take a question. It is a very easy question. I would like to know why the DA supported affirmative action.]
Hon Groenewald, ... [Interjections.] Order! Order, please! Why do you want to behave like schoolchildren? Why? Members, why do you want to behave like schoolchildren?
Hon Chair, what I said was that I wanted to know whether the hon member was prepared to take a question. I said that it was an easy, simple question - I wanted to know why his party supported affirmative action, then.
Wait a minute. Hon member, are you prepared to take a question? [Interjections.]
No.
Chairperson, I have a point of order.
Just sit down, please. Just sit down. I haven't allowed you to speak.
Chairperson, I have a point of order.
Oh, no. I am not allowing you to speak. Are you prepared to take a question, hon Max?
No, I am not going to take a question.
Conclude your speech.
I would like to conclude by saying that, contrary to ANC practices, the DA believes in one nation with one future, where everybody has an opportunity, irrespective of race or gender - a nation that is, however, very conscious of past prejudice and deals with it accordingly. [Interjections.] It is an undisputed fact: the ANC divides; the DA unites. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon member. Hon members on my right, listen please. [Interjections.] Order, please! Order! Do you want us to continue with the debate? Hon members on my right, I don't want to call you by name. Please, when I say that I need discipline, I mean it. I am not going to allow you to defy me, comrades. When I say there should be discipline, especially the members on my right, I mean discipline!
Chairperson, the individual, the child of God, is the touchstone of value. Society and the state exist for his or her benefit. In regard to the remission of sentences, practical meaning was given to this principle when the Minister, like a loving, concerned mother, appeared on television screens at one of the correctional centres where those who had been given remission were leaving the centre, greeting them and wishing them a happy, a worthwhile and a productive life outside of prison, simultaneously imploring them not to let her down by reoffending. This was a wonderful sight. I am going to come to the arguments about the so-called impact of this, or the problems that will be confronted in regard to the remission of sentences that was provided to people.
The Minister is a hands-on Minister. She wastes no time when something happens in the centres - any problems or whatever - in coming to the portfolio committee and even to Parliament to make a statement to indicate what has gone wrong and to try to find solutions to correct it. [Interjections.] If you are looking for a perfect society, unblemished, without a problem, thou shalt not find it, not in this world! [Applause.]
I must thank the department at the outset, and I agree with some of the comments made here, especially regarding those officials who are dedicated and who are willing to see that people leaving the centres are properly skilled and adequately rehabilitated. I want to thank them. I would like to tell those who are not playing their part to pull up their socks. There should be no free lunches! If we take the trappings, we must be prepared to draw the coach and do the work. We have several nongovernmental organisations and civil society that are involved. We have the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services and we have the National Council on Correctional Services. All of these organisations deserve our thanks and gratitude for their unflinching commitment to seeing that the conditions of our inmates are humane and that they leave the service one day as better human beings. [Applause.]
I have a problem that I need to put on the table. In terms of the White Paper, the responsibility for this is as follows: It is a societal problem and society should help to reintegrate the people who leave these centres. However, society must be made up not only of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster but of all state departments. Whether it is the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, that of Labour, or that of Trade and Industry, the whole bang shoot should be involved in helping the inmates who leave the service, after having served their time, to be reintegrated into society. The JCPS cluster on its own cannot do that.
As far as activity is concerned, we are lagging behind in regard to providing sufficient workshops and sufficient skills in the centres. This is in order to correct people and skill them - to which the chairperson alluded earlier in his speech. This is an area to which we need to pay attention. At some stage or the other in the portfolio committee meetings, we discussed the possibility of something that exists in other parts of the world, especially in the United States. A utility company is formed, and the articles of inmates, who produce durable articles, are then sold and marketed through the utility. At the end of the day there is a stipend for those inmates, so that on the day when they are released there is at least something they can take back with them.
There is another side; an interesting side. There is a certain young lady. A deep love affair had contributed to her acting and doing something that was totally untoward, and I agree with the hon Selfe that she needs to pay for her deeds. Whatever happened in her life, while paying for her deeds she took the trouble to qualify herself by acquiring another degree, and she is apparently at the top of her class in prison. She already had a degree in education, and she is making her services available for the betterment of other inmates in prison. [Applause.] I say that there are such model prisoners and they need to be congratulated and given the necessary support to do better.
I also need to put the following on record. I am sorry for this particular individual, aged 26.
Sy is oud genoeg om dalk my kleinkind te wees ... [She is young enough to have been my grandchild ...]
... and is from the same prison as the inmate I referred to. This was her comment: "I am not excited about leaving prison, because I don't know what is waiting out there, but when the time comes I will have to be ready."
Now, what I am saying, hon members, is that this debate - actually, this Budget Vote - is extremely important. It can either help to make people, or it can help to break them, so that they would start to reoffend. Therefore, I would like to refer briefly to some of the things that hon members have said here today.
The Minister asked what role society played. I want to place on record my deep gratitude, not only to all of those I have mentioned but also to those I have seen who visit these facilities over weekends and spend their leisure time providing pastoral counselling to the many inmates in our service. I say South Africa owes you a great deal for the role that you are trying to play to make better human beings of those who are there.
The hon Selfe said that he would like to see the Minister leading. I think she is doing a good job! [Applause.] What we need to do is to give her the necessary support and backup, so that at the end of this chain we can see better human beings coming out of the service. [Applause.]
The challenge in our country is to create a climate where people do not find it necessary to offend. However, as it has been since time immemorial, these things are going to happen, but that does not mean we must lose hope.
The hon Selfe said that a blanket remission was sending the wrong message. The hon Selfe is a good friend of mine. I love you all, everybody here in the House! I love you all! [Laughter.] I have no enemies - we only have political competitors. To the hon Selfe, for whom I have a great deal of respect, I would like to say that this was not a blanket remission. It was a remission in respect of certain categories of crime. [Interjections.] Six months? Fine, sir. If any one of us had to lose six months of our lives, what would we lose? A great deal! [Interjections.] Schabir Shaik is not the issue here. The issue is the remission, where approximately 12 000 inmates will benefit. What we should be doing here is to do ...
Order, please! Hon speaker, you have two minutes left.
Is that all? Well, in any case, today I was a preacher. I preached, and let me preach for the last few moments too! I want to tell hon members that there is something we call ubuntu. Let us listen to our hearts, and let us understand the circumstances of those individuals. If you go into these facilities - and hon Selfe and I went to one of them - and you listen to these inmates, yes, some of them will tell you a lot of "spekstories" [lies] - they are angels; they never did anything wrong! Maar laat ek dit vir daardie mense vandag s - die ouens wat nog in die tjoekie sit, want ek weet hulle kyk na hierdie debat, of hulle sal dit sien - en dit is dat hier vir julle nou 'n voorbeeld is. Sorg dat julle julself regruk. Sorg dat julle julself voorberei vir die toekoms. Ek wil net vir daai outjies in Ceres se tronk s: Ek was daar. Ek het die ergste kru taal op hul arms getatoeer gesien. Ek durf nie oorvertel wat ek daar gehoor het nie. Dit beteken daardie ouens is so vrot in hul koppe dat as hulle uit die tronk kom - en goddank hulle is nie in die vrygestelde groepe nie - hulle die eerste vrou wat hul in die straat sien, sal gaan verkrag. Sulke erge kru taal het ek op hulle gesien. My boodskap aan hulle is: Maak 'n belydenis. Kom reg, kinders. Julle is ons kinders. Julle het die pad byster geraak. Om hemelsnaam, ruk julle reg en gaan die toekoms met moed en vertroue in. [Tyd verstreke.] Baie dankie, Voorsitter. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[But allow me to say this to those people today - the people who are still behind bars, because I know they are watching this debate, or they will still see it - and here is an example for you. See to it that you pull yourselves together. See to it that you prepare yourselves for the future. I just want to tell those chaps in Ceres's prison: I was there. I saw the worst kind of crude language tattooed on their arms. I dare not repeat what I heard there. It means those guys have such rotten minds that when they are released from prison - and thank God they are not part of the freed groups - they will rape the first woman they come across in the street. Such is the vulgar language that I saw tattooed on them. My message to them is: Confess. Come right, children. You are our children. You have lost your way. For Heaven's sake, pull yourself together and meet the future with courage and confidence. [Time expired.] Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]]
I see the hon Minister of Correctional Services. Unfortunately, you have only five minutes.
No! There were three minutes left. Please, before I even start, Chairperson, do not start counting. There has been consultation with the DA on the three minutes that were left, and they have agreed to this. So I have eight minutes. Thank you very much.
You have only five minutes, hon Minister. I don't know where you got the other three from!
Chairperson, I want to thank all members of the portfolio committee who participated in this debate this afternoon. I welcome the comments that have been made and the constructive criticism that has come from the opposition parties. I think that is the way to go. However, we have to engage with a few matters.
I agree with the committee chair and hon Selfe that in South Africa we need to go the route of alternative sentences and consider diversion rather than custodial services. However, as you know, this is a matter that is being discussed by the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster so that we can indeed minimise the numbers of people who go and serve custodial sentences.
It is also important for us to earn the respect and confidence of the judiciary in promoting alternative sentences and diversion. We need to earn the respect of the judiciary, so that they appreciate that we have strong Community Corrections services. What we are trying to do, and what we reported this morning, is, among other things, to set up a Community Corrections Branch, precisely because we realise the need to get the support of the judiciary in order for them to divert some of the inmates.
We welcome the idea of partnership. Obviously we do have partnerships with both the private sector and the nongovernmental organisations. However, it is an area that needs strengthening.
I don't think reoffending should be attributed to rehabilitation programmes that are not effective and not working. Some of the people come out highly skilled, but they are rejected by the communities they live in and the job market itself is not open to them. There is discrimination towards them on the basis of the criminal record. We need to do something about that. Again, this is a matter that the cluster is seized with - seeing what we can do to expunge the criminal records, from which categories and after how long. It is something that is being done.
With regard to the special remissions, we should be very honest on this matter. I heard people saying that there was no consultation on the matter. Perhaps there was very limited consultation. But I want to remind you that this is a constitutional provision and there was wide consultation in the Constitution-making process. If the opposition feels strongly that the government or the President should not use this special remission provision, I think they have a right to go the route of a constitutional amendment. I challenge them on this, because this is in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and none of us opposed it at the time when all of us were drafting the Constitution. [Applause.]
I want to say to the hon Mnguni that he has a very selective memory. In spite of the fact that this is a constitutional provision and a prerogative of the President, I did come to the portfolio committee. I informed the committee behind closed doors that this was what was going to happen and it was not a way of dealing with overcrowding. We did this because it was a provision that we had not used during this administration. Of course, it has impacted positively on the levels of overcrowding, to a certain extent. So, please, let's be honest. [Interjections.] Niyandiphazamisa. [You are disturbing me.]
With regard to the matter of Sifiso Zulu, yes, I welcome the comment. I also want to know. I received a report last night that Sifiso Zulu was in a hospital, and we have called on the department to give us details of the circumstances that led to his being booked into the hospital. It is not so much whether he is there or not, but the circumstances.
I want to say, colleagues, that South Africa is a unitary state. We fought very hard to make sure that it was a unitary state. Whatever we do in our little corners will never do away with the fact that it is a unitary and not a federal state. Whatever programmes we put together in a corner should be replicated elsewhere in the country, because we serve the people of South Africa and we have one government that is unitary. It will never be a federal state. So, the Western Cape is not an island.
This goes back to the Western Cape equity plan issues. I did say in my speech, and in the media briefing this morning, that I had called for an investigation into the matter, precisely because I do not want to stand here and speak to you or defend my position or ourselves against litigation - in the event that there is litigation - without getting the facts right.
I don't know if you have even had sight of the policy you are referring to! So, the investigation that I have directed should also investigate whether, in fact, that policy exists and what it says. Therefore, allow me to investigate the matter and come back to give you a report.
Long political speeches that people make are not going to solve the problems we have on hand. We are talking about correctional issues here. Yes, there will be time for campaigning to attract all the people to the DA because the DA suddenly believes in unity and the ANC believes in division!
Hon Minister, I am afraid your time has expired. [Interjections.]
I do want to remind you that we taught you the words "diversity", "transparency" and "democracy".
Your time has expired, hon Minister.
It is the ANC that did that! [Applause.]
Lastly ... [Interjections.] ... with due respect, with due respect ... [Interjections.]
Your time has expired, hon Minister.
I do have respect. I am not like you.
Hon Minister, please!
I am not like you. Young man, I am not like you, honourable Waters! [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, please, your time has expired.
Yes, you are right, Chair. This is the list of the people we have redeployed and I will attach it to the speech, even though it has not been presented here. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
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