Thanks, Speaker. In reply to the hon Mnguni, the Department of Public Works, the SA Police Service, SAPS, and the Department of Defence and Military Veterans are meeting on a continuous basis to discuss matters relating to the implementation of security measures at state facilities, including the private and official accommodation of members of the executive. The scheduled meetings are mainly assessing whether the various projects are being executed in accordance with the official risk assessment done by SAPS and the department. Thank you, Speaker.
Thank you, hon Speaker. Will the Minister please indicate whether the building of an underground bunker at a private residence is warranted as a result of any real or perceived imminent threat that South Africans should reasonably be aware of?
Secondly, what will a multitude of bedrooms add to the security of the President at a private residence that is situated on communal property to which neither the President nor the state has any title? Has the Minister considered the implication of this in respect of irregular expenditure for next year's audit?
Mr Speaker, the hon member must not rely on propaganda in the newspapers but rather on what we as the relevant department responsible for this is saying. [Interjections.]
Order! Order, hon members!
In relation to the matter of it being private housing, the Department of Public Works does not engage in that and it has never engaged in that. What I can tell you is that, in relation to the issue of the bunker being part of the security measures, Public Works cannot comment on that! [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr Speaker, the Department of Public Works has spent R230 million on measures like bulletproof windows, an underground bunker and a helipad, for one person, while classrooms, hospitals, and police stations are collapsing! The question, Minister, is why the safety of one person is worth more than the education, health, and safety of millions of ordinary and poor South African citizens.
I do not know where hon Dreyer gets that figure, because Public Works has not given that particular figure. Secondly, the risk assessment is not done by Public Works but by the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, and the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster. We then implement that. It depends on what they recommend in regard to the head of the state.
I wish to know from the Minister whether this kind of security service that he is providing to the incumbent President was also available to the previous Presidents.
In regard to all the first citizens or Presidents, the same assessments are done by the security departments and they come to a conclusion as to what must be implemented. It is very interesting that people have never asked questions in relation to previous Presidents, but they are asking questions about this one. So, a security assessment is done for all of them, and then Public Works has to implement it.
Through you, Mr Speaker, I would like the hon Minister to be kind enough to comment on a report that I have on my desk, which indicates that the function of the design of the complex would enable the President or somebody else to survive a prolonged siege should he be unwilling to surrender himself to somebody wanting to get in there. If that is the design, from a trait point of view, at least in the report I received, it does not seem that it is designed specifically to resist terrorist attack, but it seems to be designed for the purpose of maintaining the long-term sustainability of those living there under conditions of siege. Is that the intent? That is the first thing that I would like you to comment on.
Secondly, we are all very puzzled about this constant resorting to classifying it as secret. We understand that under the existing secrecy laws that is unconstitutional in effect. Be that as it may, while secrecy is an option for government, why not waive the secrecy because it is a matter of public interest? [Time expired.]
With due respect, I do not understand the first question, unless the member is allowed to repeat that question.
On the second question, if you talk about security matters, that is not my province. That is the province of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster. Thank you. [Applause.]
I wish to remind members that a supplementary question may not consist of more than one question - that is Rule 113(7).
Steps to make rural areas sustainable
312. Nkosi Z M D Mandela (ANC) asked the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform:
What steps has he taken to make rural areas sustainable and to stem the continuous increase in urban migration? NO3616E
Hon Speaker, in South Africa the reality of rural-urban migration is a product of many years of economic, social, and spatial neglect, which was driven in a very systematic way. We have to build quality rural livelihoods, and inclusive and equitable growth and development. These depend on thriving rural communities. The Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, CRDP, which was established in 2009, is meant to achieve this.
Recently, the government decided to focus on 23 poverty-stricken districts across the country, particularly in the former homeland areas, so that these could be targeted for development as part of the infrastructure building programme of government.
Finally, as part of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme, we have a special programme called Sustainable Rural Settlements, which includes revitalising villages and rural towns. In this context a number of areas - including the one that is famous or infamous, depending on where one stands - are some of those targeted for this programme. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, let me ask this follow-up question arising out of the Minister's reply. The essence of the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is that people are not targets of development, but rather subjects of their own development. In this context, hon Minister, what opportunities exist for rural communities to develop sustainable communities? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, I thank the hon member very much for the question, because that is the particular experience that the people of Ludondolo and Mvezo are actually going through. It is one of our very important pilot projects in this regard, where we are building a bridge as a catalyst for development in the area.
We have done an impact assessment in the villages around there because of the work that is being done. We also have young people working there, who are being trained in enterprises such as brick-making and paving roads in the area. That bridge is also meant to create access for people from Mqanduli and Elliotdale. I am using this example particularly because it is very familiar to the hon member, but elsewhere we do the same. Thank you. [Applause.]
I have on my list the following people who have requested the floor: the hon Trollip followed by hon Cebekhulu and hon Njobe.
Hon Speaker and hon Minister, the CRDP is a fine programme aimed at reducing rural spatial inequalities and stimulating the rural economy. It was launched with much fanfare at Muyexe.
The portfolio committee has, however, found that after the fanfare most of the CRDP targets are behind schedule, and accelerated urbanisation is characterised by an ever increasing incidence of rural men seeking work opportunities in other provinces and cities. The latest census shows that the Eastern Cape has the highest rate of outward migration. The fact that the majority of the Marikana victims came from the rural areas of the Eastern Cape is testimony to the failure of these initiatives.
This is a headline written in the Farmer's Weekly: "A lifetime of waiting - in vain". In an open letter to Minister Gugile Nkwinti, farmer Gideon Morule argues that the government land policy aimed at blacks is as oppressive as apartheid laws.
What steps, Minister, are you going to take to improve the impact of the CRDP, the household profiling, and the establishment of agriparks and village agricultural industries, and to ensure the sustainable success and production outcomes of the recapitalisation programme, which at the moment has very limited outcomes as far as improved agricultural production, food security and poverty alleviation are concerned?
Hon Speaker, I invite the hon member to wake up at 05:30 in the morning every day, Monday to Friday. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! [Interjections.] How do you know he does? [Laughter.]
Hon Speaker, it is actually worrying the hon members - they did not expect that!
At half past five every morning, we actually reflect on what we are doing, whether it is infrastructure being built, or crop production, or the recap programme.
Part of what the hon members will have noticed or observed is that Grain SA had a Farmer of the Year contest just a couple of weeks ago. One of the points that Grain SA is making is that the gap between commercial and emerging farmers is closing up because of the success of the recap programme. It is not we who are saying that, but Grain SA. If you watch the farmers themselves, you will see that they say that, and we actually agree because it is true, we have a partnership between emerging farmers and commercial farmers that is working very well. It is working very well.
Marikana cannot be ascribed only to the failure of the recap of the CRDP. It is an old story - it is centuries old - where those who own mines have exploited those who do not own them. At Lonmin about 5% of the people living there are employed in the mines and the rest are brought in from outside. This is a recipe for black-on-black violence, perhaps deliberate, so it cannot be attributed to that.
Lastly, hon Speaker, the CRDP is not really falling behind; it is actually moving ahead quite substantially. What is really happening is that in some areas there is a lot of unevenness. In some areas it is moving faster. Look at the agripark in Dutywa. [Interjections.] It is fine, but look at the coverage. Look at the coverage. There is one more at Alice, which is operating and functioning very well, and others are coming up. So, there is unevenness because of resources and skills. Thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, my questions to the Minister are: How much input and involvement are sourced from the community members to ensure that they are part of the solution in bringing development in their areas? Secondly, what efforts are being made to identify and replace provincial MECs that have shown themselves to be incompetent in helping to bring about development in rural areas? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, we are actually working very, very closely with communities and we have councils of stakeholders there. Firstly, we have just had a conference and at that conference there were 800 people - 400 of them were councils of stakeholders. They are, in other words, representatives of the people there where we work, and they are the ones who determine what has to be done there. When we had the conference, it was very significant to note that these were the people who were making us accountable. They said to us: "We asked you to do fencing. You came and did the road!" or vice versa. These are the people who actually determine this.
Secondly, in regard to people who fail to actually do the work, one of the important things that is related to failure is that in the department we do not have experienced people who have been working on rural development. We are building that capacity in the department, together with communities. The ability of communities to make us account for things all the time when we meet with them is one very important aspect of building that capacity, because that is building accountability on the part of government. Thank you.
Hon Speaker and hon Minister, on the ground the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme is not actually helping to achieve vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural communities.
I would like to know what incentives the department will provide for companies such as Foodcorp, which is the third largest food company in South Africa and the largest employer in the impoverished town of Molteno in the Eastern Cape - it employs 250 full-time staff. What incentive will the department give to the company for its decision to remain and reinvest in Molteno rather than relocate to Johannesburg, where it could make more money? It intends to build a new plant for the production of Ouma Rusks, and will thus be able to create more jobs. I thank you.
Speaker, I wish the hon member had spoken to me about it, because I was not aware of that. If the hon member comes to see me, we will discuss the matter and find a solution to that. Thank you. Intentions regarding investigation into reasons for cancellation of road- building budgets
354. Mr I M Ollis (DA) asked the Minister of Transport:
Whether he intends to investigate why budgets for building roads in areas other than in Nkandla were cancelled; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details in each case? NO3668E
Speaker, the answer is no. The KwaZulu-Natal provincial department of transport is responsible for budgeting with regard to planning, designing, constructing, upgrading, maintaining and managing roads under its jurisdiction.
Thank you, Speaker. Minister, you know we are all quite sure that the roads to Nkandla are paved with good intentions! [Laughter.]
Our problem is, however, why those roads were prioritised when there are many other roads in South Africa and in KwaZulu-Natal that have not been upgraded. My colleague sitting here, for example, lives in Ventersdorp. The roads there are in a shocking condition, and we do not see the department rushing there to resurface those roads. There are roads all over KwaZulu- Natal, where children have to cross rivers because the bridge has not been built, but those roads are not prioritised.
Yet, the Minister stands here today and tells us he will not investigate what criteria KwaZulu-Natal used to prioritise the roads to the doorstep of the President's private home. Will the Minister tell us why he will not even investigate why those roads to Nkandla were built?
We have a structure that is composed of the Ministry at national level and MECs at provincial level. Two months ago, we had a meeting with the MECs from the nine provinces. They laid out their own priorities. As I said when I began, it is a provincial competence - they decide on their priority projects. Thank you. [Applause.]
I have on my shortlist the hon Dreyer, followed by the hon Kganare. [Interjections.] Do we have several Dreyers today? [Laughter.]
I would love to be the hon Dreyer, but unfortunately I am not!
Speaker, given the fact that the security measures at the national security point close by already include a security bunker, bulletproof windows, and a helipad, I want to know why it was necessary to also upgrade the roads leading to this national security point. Was it part of the security measures already in place there? [Interjections.]
Speaker, our priority as government is to ensure that there is infrastructure development throughout the country - that means in all our provinces - and the upgrades with regard to the roads in KwaZulu-Natal are part and parcel of that programme.
Speaker, my question is this ... Minister, look, all of us are not stupid. [Interjections.] I mean, it is obvious to everybody why this road is being prioritised. [Interjections.] Is the message that you are sending out that all the rural areas must first have a President or a Minister living there for them to get a road properly developed? [Applause.] [Interjections.] I ask particularly because the impression I have is that for you to prioritise areas, you roll the dice, and wherever it lands is where you prioritise. [Interjections.]
Speaker, facts are facts, and facts are stubborn things. [Interjections.] What we have to remember is that we have a constitutional democracy and there are spheres of government - national, provincial and local. In terms of the prescripts of the Constitution, provincial governments have responsibilities and their programmes are carried out in terms of the Constitution. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to find out from the Minister if any conditional grant is given by his department to upgrade roads in KwaZulu-Natal, generally, and in Nkandla in particular. [Interjections.]
None. [Laughter.]
Government's plans for fostering collaboration between big businesses and SMMEs in peri-urban and rural areas
315. Mr N E Gcwabaza (ANC) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry:
In light of the Incubation Support Programme that his department has made available to small, micro and medium enterprises (SMMEs), how will the Government attract big businesses, which are mainly located in urban centres, to work together with SMMEs in (a) peri-urban and (b) rural communities?