No3369E

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Deputy Speaker, the planning for Programme 4 to implement 15 performance indicators was overambitious: hence in the 2013-14 financial year this was corrected. The annual performance plan used a smart principle to ensure that we had indicators that were measurable and that we were going to implement.

The main cost drivers for the expenditure include the National Disability Machinery consultative meetings, which comprised mostly disabled people's organisations; national, provincial and local government departments; reporting on international obligations; educational and awareness programmes, particularly during disability month on International Day of Persons with Disabilities; and provincial road shows where meetings are held with provincial executive councils of various provinces to highlight the concerns and the gaps in regard to implementing policy and the rights of persons with disabilities.

We have also travelled all over the country visiting universities, higher education institutions and FET colleges, where we have deliberated and ensured that students or learners with disabilities are accommodated. We have spent money on implementing those projects and activities that have assisted us in looking at reasonable accommodation for disabled persons, doing surveys in the workplace, and looking at the concerns of persons with disabilities who are employed, and the gaps in policy. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Order! Thank you, hon Minister. I am told that the hon Kekana is going to ask a supplementary question on behalf of the hon Ramodibe.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, with regard to the consultations that took place for people with disabilities nationally and in provinces, and those that included civilian organisations for people with disabilities, are we at the stage where we can say what the outcomes of those consultations were? Were reasonable conditions for people with disabilities created so that these people could participate? Lastly, in regard to your good projects for rural women in agriculture, are these rural agricultural self-employment projects, which have involved Japanese companies supplying irrigation schemes, good projects for self-employment and sustainability, and do they involve people with disabilities? I hope that you are not excluding them there. Thank you. [Applause.] The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, most of those consultations were to assist the department in developing policies and programmes.

Firstly, the hon Kekane asked about reasonable conditions for people to participate in. Members know that most of our people with disabilities need personal assistance, sign language interpreters and accessible accommodation. All this had to be taken into consideration in regard to venues and accommodation and also in ensuring that we engaged people who would be able to interpret for deaf people. Hon members, that has budgetary implications, because if you are wheelchair-bound, you need someone to accompany you to the meeting. We had to take that into consideration.

In regard to the outcomes of these consultations, the most important thing to benefit people with disabilities is the National Disability Rights Policy that is under discussion right now. We have worked very closely with the Department of Public Service and Administration in developing a reasonable accommodation policy for civil servants and that is almost in its final stages. We believe that it will benefit people with disabilities, because it will ensure that they have the instruments they require in their workplaces, as well as accommodation and access.

We have also been working with the Department of Social Development through these consultations and the disability sector, in which we have been able to develop the universal access to early childhood development programme of action that is being implemented now in 2013.

Hon Minister, your time is up. I am sure you will complete your answer in reply to other questions.

Through you, Deputy Speaker, I thank the Minister for the answer. Minister, you said that it was overambitious of your department to set 15 targets and then meet only five. Was it overambitious of your department to spend 85% of the budget, yet reach only five targets, though they were planned for? Could the Minister also explain to us how the missed targets will impact on this financial year's targets? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Deputy Speaker, those targets have been accommodated. There was a problem with the drafting of the targets, which ended up being 15.

As I said, we have a tiny budget in this department to ensure that we reach out as we are at this stage of developing policy. We have to consult extensively, as we all know people with disabilities have the slogan: "Nothing about us without us." It was mostly through these consultations that a lot of the budget was spent. However, I am happy that the outcome, particularly the policy that is being developed - not only through my department but through other departments as well - will ensure that the rights of persons with disabilities in our country are realised. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, with regard to your international obligations, which you have just mentioned, how many of the articles that form part of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which we are signatories to, are we actually fully complying with?

I say this because a brief look at, for example, Article 9 will show that it states that the state shall take appropriate measures to "provide in buildings ... open to the public signage in Braille" - we certainly don't fully comply with that everywhere - and to provide forms of assistance, guides, and sign language interpreters at state facilities. We certainly don't comply with that. Many deaf people can't access government services.

This then raises the question, hon Minister: Are taxpayers getting value for the R9,9 million which is spent on travel, for example, to report on developments for disabled communities? And by when do you think we will be able to fully comply with all the charters in this UN Convention? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to emphasise that very little of this budget was spent on international travel. Most of the budget was spent here in South Africa.

Secondly, a lot has been done by the ANC government to ensure that we train sign language interpreters, that we have Braille material and that our buildings are accessible. The Minister of Public Works has a special budget that ensures that we implement the UN convention and comply with accessibility in government buildings.

Our municipalities have also started with this. We know that the municipal buses and buildings in eThekwini, for instance, are accessible. The Rea Vaya bus system in Johannesburg is accessible. The Gautrain in Gauteng is also accessible. I am not saying we have done everything. We have started, yes, but a lot more needs to be done.

We also commend the Minister of Basic Education who published the sign language curriculum now in 2013, and it will be introduced in our schools next year. That means we will have more sign language interpreters who can go to our courts, clinics and hospitals to ensure that deaf people have access to government services.

Production of Braille learning materials has also been accomplished in 2013. We also have the universal access to early childhood development programme, through Social Development, that I referred to. The Minister of Higher Education and Training is also ensuring that students with disabilities have access to FET colleges and higher learning. I thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

Proposed steps against municipal managers and senior managers who have not obtained necessary qualifications

299. Mr J H Steenhuisen (DA) asked the Minister for Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

What steps does he intend to take against (a) municipal managers and (b) senior managers who have not met the 1 January 2013 deadline, or the extension, to obtain the necessary qualifications as set out in Treasury Circular 60?