Speaker, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Speaker, I was going to address you before the move took place. But I now have to address you on a point of order in terms of Rule 97(c), by moving a motion without notice to ask you to suspend the First and Second Orders of the Day. The request is on the grounds that we have received very reliable legal advice this morning that the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill is, in fact, incorrectly tagged as a section 76 Bill when it should be tagged as a money Bill and introduced by the Minister of Finance. I so move.
Hon member, can you put your motion again so that we can all hear what it is all about?
Hon Speaker, we received very reliable legal advice this morning, unsolicited, that the tagging of this Bill actually contains clauses that refer to taxation, although such taxation has not been spelled out. Therefore this Bill is incorrectly tagged as section 76 instead of being tagged as a Money Bill. I therefore request you to withdraw the Bill and refer it back to the committee for consideration.
Speaker, I just wanted to ask: Who received this legal opinion, was it just the DA? This Bill has been around for some time. It is Bill 15 of last year. Surely the tagging would have been sorted out before and it is for Parliament to advise, not the DA.
Speaker, can I respond?
Hon member, please take your seat until I recognise you. Two quick points: The tagging has been finalised by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, JTM, and it is final. If the hon member wants to put a motion, he is free to do so, but the tagging is final. We are not discussing the JTM tagging. Do you want us to put your motion to the House, or are you willing to accept that the tagging is final?
Speaker, I have put my motion and you ruled against it, but I would still like my motion to be tabled and reported on.
Speaker, hon Watson is playing games with the House. We don't ... [Interjections.]
Speaker, I object! I object to that remark. I am not playing games. This is not a football field.
You are. You are playing games.
Order hon members! Order! Order! Order! Order members! Order! Order.
Speaker, we have been with hon Watson the whole of this week and he never raised the matter with us. Furthermore, we are not supposed to bring rumours that we gathered from the street into this House. He has to raise the matter on a suitable platform, not now when we are supposed to debate. We object to his motion.
Yes, but he has got the right to put the motion so that you can discuss, debate or object to it. I will now put it to the House for decision. Can I read the motion? [Interjections.]
Speaker!
Let me read the motion. Yes, who wants to speak before I do?
Speaker, me in front of you.
Oh yes.
Speaker, I know it is a motion that he put as a motion without notice. And that can only go through if there is unanimous consent of the House. The Chief Whip has clearly objected, therefore there isn't unanimous consent. I would suggest that the motion be ruled out of order.
The hon member has the right to move the motion. It has been done before. He has moved a motion and it is upon the House to decide whether it accepts it or not.
The motion is as follows:
That, in terms of Rule 97(c), the First and Second Orders of the day be suspended on the grounds that the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill was incorrectly tagged as a section 76 Bill when it should have been tagged as a money Bill and introduced by the Minister of Finance.
Motion negatived.
Declarations of vote:
Mr Speaker, the passage of this Bill has been procedurally questionable from about two weeks ago when the orders, obviously, went out from Luthuli House that it must be passed by the end of this Parliament. From the beginning of this process the ANC has drafted in new members into this committee who were chosen, not for their expertise on mining or on legislation, but for their ability to toe the ideological line of the ANC left-wing kleptocracy against all notions of reason.
These new players have had a huge influence on the proceedings of the committee. We have had a scramble of last minute amendments, suddenly summoned meetings and most recently a confused session where ANC members were effectively allowed to decide on what the DA's objection to this committee report should be.
Let me be clear, the DA stated the reason why it voted against each of the clauses it did vote against in committee sessions and this was not captured in the committee report which is a travesty. This report contains numerous mistakes; we counted at least 17 of them so far. This report even invents a new word which it uses frequently ... [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, may I address you, please? The hon member has cast aspersions on the capacity of the members of the ANC in that committee. He says they were chosen by the ANC, not on the basis of their expertise. We object to that. [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, on what point is the member rising?
Hon member, I haven't given you the right to speak.
Hon Speaker, is it parliamentary for the hon member to refer to members of the ANC as those who have been chosen on the basis of their ability to toe the ideological line on professional kleptocracy. This gentleman is calling us that. He says the members of the ANC have not been chosen on the basis of their expertise but are following an ideological left-wing line. That's not parliamentary. You are casting aspersions on the members, not on the ANC. [Interjections.]
Hon members order! Order! It's difficult to listen with your mouth open. Order! [Laughter.]
We object!
Hon members, there is an objection. I will look into the matter and come back with a ruling on that. But sir, also just mind your language.
Speaker, I go back to my invention in this committee report of a new word and that word is unbribery. Now, if such a word exists, perhaps somebody could one day explain what it means to this English major. Perhaps it stems from the same place as negatived, I don't know.
There is a much bigger problem that you heard about a moment ago. Just a few minutes ago this House ruled against a motion without notice from the Chief Whip of the Opposition to remove this and the next item from the Order Paper, that this Bill had been incorrectly tagged. As we know, this House has defeated that motion and I believe that was a mistake.
I have received a legal opinion and it says there is a provision that allows the state to be given a 20% free carried interest and any oil or gas drilling operation amounts to an additional tax. Any Bill that introduces a tax can only be a Money Bill. A Money Bill should be introduced by the Minister of Finance, as required by section 73(2) of the Constitution and should not be tagged a section 76 Bill, as this has been. So, this Bill has been wrongly tagged and introduced and thus it is unconstitutional. [Applause.]
If this committee had been given a chance to do its job properly, it might have discovered this flaw earlier. If the definitions in this Bill had not been constantly changing, if the committee had been allowed to exercise its mind rather than simply being required to parrot the opinions of Luthuli House, this Bill may have gone through properly. As it stands it is doomed and we are wasting our time. [Applause.]
Speaker, in terms of what the DA states as issues that were not discussed in the committee or that were changed, that is pure lies. I would like to add that, even if the tagging had been made a section 75 Bill, they would have objected. As the tagging remains a section 76 Bill, they are still objecting. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members, order! Order!
Speaker, may I address you? Is this the ANC's declaration? I just want clarity on that.
Hon member, please take you seat.
Any old how we tagged the Bill, it wouldn't have been in favour of the DA anyway. The issues which they do not agree with were debated. They wouldn't have agreed with anyway because they don't want this Bill to be passed. For that matter, the final understanding of our democratic government in terms of how we run our committees were such that we ended up voting; and the majority counts when we vote. The Bill must go through. Thank you. [Applause.]
Question put: That the motion by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party for the Report to be adopted be agreed to.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES - 216: Abram, S; Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Beukman, F; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bikani, F C; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T; Borman, G M; Boshigo, D F; Botha, Y R; Botha, T; Bothman, S G; Burgess, C V; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chili, D O; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P N; Davies, R H; Diale, L N; Diemu, B C; Dikgacwi, M M; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Duma, N M; Dunjwa, M L; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gaum, A H; Gcume, N P; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Gololo, C L; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Hajaig, F; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, F E; Khunou, N P; Koornhof, G W; Kota- Fredericks, Z A; Kotsi, C M P; Kwankwa, N L; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Lesoma, R M M; Line-Hendriks, H; Lishivha, T E; Luyenge, Z; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mabuza, M C; Madlala, N M; Madlopha, C Q; Magagula, V V; Magubane, E; Magwanishe, G; Makasi, X C; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, SP; Malale, M I; Malgas, H H; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Manana, M C; Mandela, Z M D; Manganye, J; Mangena, M S; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashiane, L M; Mashigo, R M; Mashishi, A C; Masilo, J M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mbhele, P D; Mdakane, M R; Mfeketo, N C; Mfulo, A; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlambo, E M; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mnisi, N A; Mocumi, P A; Moepeng, J K; Mohai, S J; Mohale, M C; Mohorosi, M M; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Moloto, K A; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motsepe, R M; Motshekga, M S; Mtshali, E; Mufamadi, T A; Mushwana, F F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndebele, J S; Ndude, H N; Nelson, W J; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngonyama, L S; Ngubeni-Maluleka, J P; Ngwenya, W; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhanha, M A; Njikelana, S J; November, N T; Ntapane, S Z; Ntshiqela, P; Ntuli, B M; Nxesi, T W; Nxumalo, M D; Nyalungu, R E; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Petersen Maduna, P; Phaahla, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Pilusa- Mosoane, M E; Pule, D D; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Saal, G; Schneemann, G D; Segale-Diswai, M J; Sekgobela, P S; Selau, G J; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibiya, D; Sindane, G S; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, S C N; Sizani, P S; Sogoni, E M; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Suka, L; Sulliman, E M; Sunduza, T B; Surty, M E; Swanepoel, D W; Thibedi, J D; Thobejane, S G; Tlake, M F; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tshabalala, J; Tshwete, P; Tsotetsi, D R; Turok, B; Twala, N M; van Rooyen, D D ; van Wyk, A; Wayile, Z G; Williams-De Bruyn, S T; Xaba, P P; Xasa, T; Ximbi, D L; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 61: Berend, S R; Boinamo, G G; Bosman, L L; Coetzee, T W; De Freitas, M S F; de Goede, J; Dreyer, A M; Du Toit, N D; Dudley, C; Duncan, P C; Farrow, S B; Ferguson, B D; George, D T; Greyling, L W; Hoosen, M H; Huang, C C; James, W G; Kalyan, S V; Kloppers-Lourens, J C; Kohler-Barnard, D; Koornhof, N J J v R ; Kopane, S P; Lamoela, H; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matiwane, N C; Maynier, D J; McGluwa, J J; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; More, E; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Ollis, I M; Rabie, P J; Ramatlakane, L; Ross, D C; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schafer, D A; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Smalle, J F; Smiles, D C; Smuts, M; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Steyn, A C; Stubbe, D J; Swart, M; Terblanche, J F; Van den Berg, N J; Van Der Linde, N J; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, S M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Waters, M; Watson, A.
ABSTAIN - 11: Cebekhulu, R N; Dikobo, K J; Mackenzie, G P D; Makhuba, H N; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Msweli, H S; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Smith, P F; Van der Merwe, J H.
Question agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.