Deputy Chairperson, we support apologies, but with a declaration.
No, the issue will be part of a declaration; the problem is that objection doesn't necessarily mean it's a declaration. You can have ... [Interjections.] I understand what you are now saying, hon Christians. Let us then go to declarations. The DA? Hon members, I really mean that you guys should learn to visit each other in the parks, so that you can speak these things you are saying here. Hon Christians, continue with the declaration?
Declarations of vote:
Deputy Chairperson, South Africa's population is estimated to have increased to 57,73 million in 2018, and 30,4 people are still living in poverty, 43,5% of these people are children who are living below the median income per capita. It is also estimated that social grants will grow to 18,1 million
beneficiaries by the end of March 2022. Social assistance is currently budgeted for 175 billion for 2019-20 and this includes grant for old age, war veterans, disability, foster care, care dependency, child support, grant-in-aid and social relief of distress. While it is commendable that we should look after our vulnerable in society, it remains extremely concerning that so many people depend on this social grants and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel in terms of sustainable jobs.
Furthermore, for many South Africans, the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, grant means the difference between putting food on the table and going hungry, yet over the years there has been technical clichs which have hit many recipients of the grant very hard. While the transition from Cash Paymaster Services, CPS, to the SA Post Office has been implemented, it has not been without problems. Many recipients complained about the distance from post offices in rural areas, where taxi fare is expensive, and many have no choice, but to make use of these services. Where shops have been identified in certain areas to assist with payments, these charges have been extremely high, and many people cannot afford to pay the levy the shops are charging. Adding to this dilemma is the delay in appointing enough doctors to evaluate the disability grants, and
this has meant that many disabled people are still without their grants for months at a time, waiting to be attended to by doctors.
It is imperative that we continue working hard to improve the conditions of South Africans. The DA supports this budget; however, as our country's people remain in social distress, it is extremely concerning. South Africa's unemployment rate stands at 29% as at this morning news report, the worst since 2008. Thank you.
Before we continue, I have noticed that there was a member that entered the House. According to the Rules of this legislature, each province delegates members to participate in the debate. The names from the Western Cape are the hon B Schafer, the hon D Bartman and the hon M Wenga. I would want to be informed whether the member that just entered now is one of three members.
Deputy Chairperson, I had informed our NCOP liaison personnel that due to the length of the sitting, that the hon Schafer would be replaced by the hon Mitchell, the Deputy Chief Whip in the Western Cape Provincial Parliament.
We have not received such correspondence, and that should have been ... [Interjections.]
Chairperson I ...
... and that should have been
... [Interjections.] Can you sit down, hon member. That should have been cleared with the Whips, and the Chief Whip should have informed us about that. We are now setting a very bad precedent because if we now allow this member to sit, we will have other parties wanting to call members just to come in and out of here without ... [Interjections.]
Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order. I would like to stand on a point of order that with regard to correspondence from the NCOP, the DA was asked to send three delegates, and we have three delegates in the House, presently.
Hon member, the Rules are very clear that the province should delegate members to this House, and in terms of the delegation from the Western Cape, it is the three names that I have read out here. We have not received any further correspondence to tell us that there will be another member. If that member is here, he cannot be part of the proceedings in this House. He cannot; he cannot be part.
Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order, the Chief Whip of that particular party delegated the three members, or the members as prescribed.
I don't know why we are debating this thing. [Interjections.] Hon members, there is a right ... [Interjections.] ... and there is a wrong.
We have delegated the three members and in addition
...
Hon member, can you take your seat.
I haven't concluded my point of order ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, can you take your seat. I am just requesting that you take your seat. [Interjections.] I am just requesting that you take your seat. Hon members, it is not because of who you are, but it is because we are a House of Rules and a quorum. Hon Koni, let me conclude before you come with your point of order. If this member is not one of the three names
mentioned, can we request that he either leave or not participate in the deliberations in this House. [Interjections.] The problem is that ... hon Koni, can you sit down, don't worsen the crisis. Yes, please.
No, it is the same. If I am supposed to debate - I am just giving you a typical example that is very close. It is the same issue where if I am supposed to debate and I am not feeling well, it cannot happen that Luthuli jumps in the House, it must be communicated. It is the same issue that it should have been ...
... and anything that changes, the Chief Whip must be consulted, that is very clear in the Rules. So, I don't want the DA to think that they can take advantage of me.
Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order ...
Hon member, can you sit down, you haven't asked for a point of order; you have not asked for anything. Sit down and allow the hon Koni to finish and sit down. Ms H S BOSHOFF: You made an accusation that I was trying to take advantage ...
Sorry, hon member! Sorry.
Deputy Chairperson, I followed the correct procedure as set out between the NCOP and ourselves, and what I have done is that I have in fact emailed our NCOP liaison personnel, hon Shelembe ...
Hon member, I will explain for the last time. Whatever you have agreed with your members should have been clarified with the Table and the Chief Whip who is responsible for drawing up the list for us. It has not been done. I don't know what makes you stand while I am speaking! I don't know what makes you stand while I am speaking! So, what I am saying is that ... [Interjections.] ... no, there is order in this House. We will allow the Chief Whip, I didn't see him standing. We will allow the Chief Whip because ... [Interjections.] ... hon Nhanha, ah,ah, ah! You are a grown up and you are an elder. [Interjections.]
Chairperson! [Interjections.] Chairperson!
You are the one that will be ... can you sit down!
Chairperson, the only thing I would ... [Interjections.] Your Chief has been standing whilst you were talking.
I don't have eyes here!
I am telling ... I know! I know!
Hon Nhanha, you want to shout at me!
Do not be sarcastic; I am just saying to you that you must be even-handed.
Don't point your finger!
I am pointing at you. I am pointing at you. I am just saying to you that you must be even-handed. [Interjections.] That is all what I am asking from you. You can't be treating this lady so badly and you think that you can get away with it. [Interjections.]
Hon Chief Whip, we will now allow you to speak.
I think I must put it on record, I stood up in a disciplined manner and waited to be recognised at the right time. I have never called for the attention of the Deputy Chairperson, I just stood up and waited for the moment to be recognised. Deputy Chair, I am standing on a point of order that no member in the House is allowed to engage in an endless dialogue with the Chair. The Chair has made a ruling and any member of the party should follow the right procedure in raising their matters and we should not be brought down here by people who want to operate in shifts. Let's continue to be working here and consider matters that are at hand.
Hon members, since we don't know the name of the member that entered here, can we request the foreigner to excuse us. [Interjections.] No, it is ...So, I don't know what else to say. He is a foreigner to me; I don't know him. [Interjections.] I don't know him. [Interjections.] I don't know him. [Interjections.] I don't know him and I have not been informed that he will be in this House. I have ruled and if he doesn't leave this House now, I will request that he to be removed from the House. [Interjections.]. Can you continue with the business of the day, and we will request the ANC if they have a declaration on Vote No 17. [Interjections.]. Yes. [Interjections.] We were busy with
declarations. We were busy with declarations; the DA was the only party that made a declaration. [Interjections.]. No, we have finalised that matter. We have finalised. You were sleeping, wena! We have finalised that matter. Can we request the ANC if they have a declaration to continue.
Deputy Chair,
IsiXhosa:
Lungu elihloniphekileyo u-Koni, ndiqinisekile ukuba ixesha lide, ubufanele ukuba udlala nabanye abantwana, ngoku awuseva nangeendlebe, uxolo nana. Uxolo nanana uyeva! Ungafi, uxolo!
English:
I didn't hear what she said. [Interjections.] Hon Ndongeni, I don't know ...
No, I am apologising. I am apologising.
No, she is apologising.
I am apologising. [Interjections.] I withdraw.
Hon Koni, you are very much out of order! [Interjections.] You are the one who is always calling for order all the time, but you are very much out of order now! Hon Ndongeni?
The ANC rises in support of Vote No 17 on Social Development. We do so because of the significant and strategic role that the Portfolio Committee on Social Development has to do in social transformation of our people's lives for the better. The primary goal is to uplift our people and empower them - to lift them out of poverty. This means that we are agreeing that our social development narrative must transcends from being perceived as an engine of disbursing social grants but one of development. Our people must see and use grants as instruments of entering the economy.
We have to boldly state that despite the sentiments expressed by the opposition to the budget of the department, there is a general consensus that we have, that is to work together, to take social development to where it should be. It can be that the opposition is continuously raising challenges, but we have to be collective and ensure that this sector, through this budget, not only achieve its target but that see meaningful impact and transformation in the
lives of our people when conducting oversight. If the DA really care about the wellbeing and empowerment of our people as they allege, we as the ANC do not understand the opposition and rejection to this budget.
The budget will ensure amongst others the following, the social assistance programme which provides social assistance remaining the main spending focus. [Interjections.] The finalisation of the finance strategy of early childhood centres, ECDs, will ensure a long-term approach to finding quality improvements and increasing coverage across a group, using different approaches such as learning playgrounds, toy libraries and home visiting programmes for parents. It will ensure that payments are transferred for the national development agents - we will ensure that sustainable community- driven projects are implemented to support nonprofit organisation working on ECDs - and also ensure the implementation of the White Paper on the right of persons with disabilities. Upon implementation, this is important as a measure to ensure reasonable accommodation support measures are available in all social development services for persons with disabilities. The ANC support the Budget Vote. Thank you.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Vote No 18 - Correctional Services - Put
Declarations of votes made on behalf of the African National Congress.
Division demanded.
The Council divided.