Before answering the question, let me briefly take this opportunity to join the President and the country in congratulating the Springboks. [Applause.] We want to say to them, thank you for bringing the cup home; thank you for unifying us; thank you for lifting our spirits and showing all of us a sense of positivity that we so desire as we tackle all our challenges; and thank you for reminding us that we are still a rainbow nation.
Chair, indeed we acknowledge that our country is currently experiencing enormous energy challenges that have the potential to hinder prospects for new investment and economic growth. However, government has put in place key performance indicators and targets that are outlined in the shareholder compact to ensure that Eskom executes maintenance at its generation, transmission and distribution assets. The shareholder compact is signed by Eskom's board and the Minister of Public Enterprises, and is revised on an annual basis.
The National Development Plan has identified the need for South Africa to invest in a strong network of economic infrastructure, designed to support the country's medium and long-term economic and social objectives. Energy infrastructure is therefore a critical
component that underpins our economic activity and growth in our development trajectory. It is however concerning that Eskom's fleet performance has since deteriorated due to the lack of maintenance refurbishment over the years, greatly compromising the security of electricity supply. This situation is also worsened by, among other things, coal shortages and the supply of substandard coal.
With regard to grid reliability, Eskom has a responsibility to conduct maintenance of its grid assets according to published standards that are benchmarked with international best practices. In the course of time there have been weaknesses in terms of adherence to published standards. However, as government we are working very hard to ensure that Eskom and the power utility reverts back to compliance with these published standards.
With an aging power station fleet, we need for planned midlife refurbishment to increase and meet the life expectations of these power plants. Critical areas that need work have been identified and are being funded and resourced to renew the power plants to a more reliable state. Unfortunately, all these shortfalls have resulted in rotational load shedding being implemented earlier this year and during the past three weeks of October.
With regard to the current generation capacity of the coal power stations, we advise that we are standing at the maximum available power of 36 221 megawatts. Under the leadership of the Minister of Public Enterprises, work is currently underway to ensure that interruptions in the performance of coal power stations are minimised to avoid disruptions and load shedding.
Accelerated economic growth, a rising population, and the expansion of human settlements and industrial development zones must be matched by targeted measures on the side of government to cater for energy security needs. Government remains committed to ensuring that Eskom is supported to address persistent sustainability challenges, including unsustainable levels of debt, underinvestment and the inadequate maintenance of plants, resulting in energy supply interruptions.
To this end, Eskom has developed a detailed turnaround plan to address its structural, operational and financial challenges. This entails a clear focus on improving efficiencies, reducing costs, optimising plant performance and enhancing government systems.
In spite of these difficulties ahead, we believe that policy reforms announced by the President in respect of positioning Eskom will put
Eskom on a sustainable recovery path. Government continues to provide the necessary support to Eskom to ensure that prospects of investment, economic growth and job creation are not negatively impacted.
Last week the Minister of Public Enterprises released a new road map on Eskom, outlining government's plans for the future of Eskom. The road map for Eskom proposes a new business model which will provide reliable, affordable, economically competitive and environmentally sustainable electricity that will drive inclusive economic growth. We therefore urge organised labour, business, energy experts and civil society at large to constructively engage the Minister on this proposed road map, to explore lasting solutions.
Alongside efforts to address Eskom's challenges, Cabinet has since approved the Integrated Resource Plan which seeks to diversify our energy mix through the introduction of alternative sources of energy. While coal continues to play a significant role in electricity generation, new investment will need to be channelled to more efficient coal technologies, including the exploration of other sources of energy like nuclear, gas, wind, hydro and energy storage. In the medium to long term, we should be able to see a steady
improvement in the country's ability to supply reliable energy that will support economic growth. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, hon Chairperson and thanks to you, hon Deputy President, for a comprehensive response to the question.
However, there is one other thing that I need to check. In fact, it's common cause that most of the challenges of Eskom that result in government taking decisions from time to time to bail out Eskom, are as a result of monies that are owed to Eskom by municipalities for the supply of electricity. These municipalities owe Eskom as a result of nonpayment. Government departments do not pay their bills on time. Big businesses also owe municipalities huge sums of money, making it difficult for them to pay.
Lastly, the challenge that our own people have relates to the challenge of the culture of nonpayment, which of course was as a result of the boycotts during the apartheid regime. So, people have not yet gone to that culture. Is there a plan by government to ensure that we encourage those that owe to pay so that we reduce the monies that are spent on funding and recapitalising Eskom?
Lastly, how do we deal with the challenges of cable theft and illegal connections?
Question 7: (Contd.)
Thank you, Chair. On the side of the government I think we have encouraged all government departments and all institutions of government to pay for services consumed, especially to Eskom. There was a concerted effort on the side of Cabinet to ensure that each and every department that owes Eskom it is paying. The challenge remains with the municipalities which is the task before the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, together with the municipalities. Of course, in the main, municipalities have a challenge in terms of their metering. They are not billing citizens correctly. There is always a dispute on the amount that people are owing.
However, you are spot on to say that this culture of our people of nonpayment must be dealt with. We have on a number of occasions in different platforms conveyed this message that the time for resistance is over, we had to resist and fight apartheid but now it is time to turn on reconstruction. It is important for all of us to pay for services that we consume. On illegal connections, it is a responsibility of municipalities to ensure that people don't temper
with their grid and distribution lines. In such a case, the municipality must be able to detect earlier where there is tempering and illegal connections. It is quite clear that municipalities don't have the necessary capacity to detect illegal connections on time and deal with those.
Now, the district model in terms of service delivery that is led by the President - of which I am chairing the interministerial committee, IMC, - in the main we seek to support the municipalities to be able to collect money, to put down systems; systems of collections, billing systems and meters. We call upon our people and our law enforcement agencies to deal with those who are stealing the cables and those who are illegally connecting into the grid. The problems that Eskom is facing today are partly from us as citizens. Thank you.
Thank you Chairperson. Deputy President, the biggest problem with Eskom is coal contracts which are expensive and which were signed by the apartheid government. The National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa, says that Eskom must pay R300 per ton but Eskom through its corrupt leadership they go and pay R600 per ton, which is too expensive and costly. Do you agree with the
determination of Nersa that Eskom should go to its original determination of R300 per ton? Thank you.
Thank you very much for that question. Well, this is an agreement that exist between Eskom and the suppliers of coal. Whatever it has happened along the way, for them to agree on higher rates which are not sustainable, those rates are not sustainable. We took a meeting; the Minister of Public Enterprises and the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy, and we decided that this contract must be renegotiated. Eskom can't afford to go on and pay these kinds of rates.
A meeting took place with all the coal suppliers together with the two Ministers. The intention of that meeting was to renegotiate those contracts and also to put on the table the question of the quality of the coal that is being supplied. On the side of the quality of the coal we have inspectors now that are inspecting in all our power stations the quality of the coal that goes into our power stations. I am sure that the negotiations are still underway and there are positive signs that they will be lowered. The companies are prepared to lower down this cost of coal. However, obviously they are raising a lot of issues that involves labour, to
say, that if they reduce this cost they will have to layoff workers, which as government we say, no.
We are looking at an amicable way that will be to the best advantage of both Eskom and the coal suppliers. That matter has been attended to. I don't think that is the only matter that has affected Eskom, yes, coal supply is one of the exorbitant costs of coal but secondly, the leadership in Eskom - we think we need to beef up the management of Eskom so that we get the required skills that can run this power utility. That has been also a major concern.
We are also not very happy in terms of the rising debt and how Eskom is managing its debt, it is not only the municipalities alone that have defaulted but it is also worrying that Eskom over the past 10 years has failed to manage its debt of which now the Minister of Finance is working closely with Eskom to ensure that the money that we give Eskom is correctly utilised. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy President, regarding asset management the horror stories around Eskom and how it has been managed over several years has not yet fully been told. Before we can move forward, we need to know the full extent of what
we are dealing with. There have been reports that the asset registry in Eskom do not really reflect what they have, that there is stuff that's on the books that is not even on any of the power plants. Will the hon Deputy President consider a period for contractors, Eskom employees and whistleblowers to come forward to tell the full story? At the moment there are individuals that walk around fearing for their lives because they had to speak out towards these. So, would you consider putting forward such a period so that people can come forward without fear of retribution so that we can know what the full is and so that we can move forward?
Thank you very much. Well, there has been an attempt on the side of government to explore all avenues that will help us to come close to the truth, especially, on what we call state capture. We have instituted all these commissions to allow our people to come forward and say whatever they say they know, in terms of all these state-owned enterprises, SOEs, we can't say Eskom alone. So, that platform has been created and we still call upon our people to come forward if they know whatever wrong that has been done.
I cannot say that Eskom is not fully aware of its own asset because it is a company that has been operating. On the basis of its asset
register Eskom went out to borrow money. Definitely, they should be aware of the assets they own because they borrowed money against the assets they have. Government came in as a guarantor that these funders that borrowed Eskom money, borrowed them on the basis of their strength of their assets. Assets which in the main are the power stations, the challenge that we see and that we noticed overtime is that these assets of power stations were not well maintained. There were moments when these power stations were pushed too hard because we wanted to avoid load shedding. So, they were pushed beyond their capacity.
Some of these assets are old. There are continuous disruptions and breakages. At times these breakages are not planned and they disrupt the entire power system. So, Eskom failed over time to do planned maintenance. If you do planned maintenance, you switch off a power station knowing the power that you have and you will still supply to your people but maintaining that power station, you know how much energy you are taking out of the grid and how much energy is left out of the grid. That is planned maintenance. However, over the past few years we have been hit by unplanned maintenance. All of a sudden a power station that has been running, for instance, I will take Hendrina Power Station that generates more or less above 3000 megawatts, if that power station can be interrupted we loose the
entire 3000 megawatts. That will definitely result into loads shedding because it was unexpected and unplanned.
I am sure Eskom is aware of its own assets but the problem with these assets is that they were not well kept and well maintained. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Chairperson. We really appreciate the responses that we have been given by the Deputy President. Deputy President, the reason why every time you come here, Eskom question is one of the questions we are asking is because Eskom is very important for our country to fail. The other areas have been covered but the one that I think I would like the Deputy President to speak on is, the areas of partnerships with private sectors so that we are able to enhance the great reliability while at the same time we have a generation of electricity through an environmental friendly method of generation of electricity. Thank you very much ... [Inaudible.]
Thank you very much. I am sure as government we are taking that very same approach to say that let us diversify. The pressure is just too much on Eskom. The failure of Eskom can make the entire country to fail. So, in the process, try and
diversify. We have then allowed independent power producers to come into the space. They are now generating and we will open more for these independent power generators to produce energy which will augment the capacity of Eskom. However the President proposed that we need to restructure Eskom.
I have visited China and I went to their State Grid. China has five generating companies. They are generating electricity, they are sub grid. China has two transmission companies and three distribution companies. I think in that way they have managed in a planned way avoided the risk that might happen in any economy and to ensure that there is continuous supply and sustainability of the supply of energy. As a country, the proposed way that we say we must take - that of restructuring Eskom - we will consider creating one or two companies that will still be involved in generation, we will still consider having two or three companies that will be involved in the transmission of electricity and companies that will be involved in distribution. In this case we are able to isolate and insulate problems. If one company has a problem, the others will be in the position to supply energy. It is unlike in this case, if this one company of ours has problems we all sneeze, we all catch flue. Thank you. [Applause.]
Question 8:
Hon Chairperson, during the oral reply session in this House on the 11 September, we indicated that we will visit Emfuleni Local Municipality to assess progress on government's efforts towards addressing the sewage spillage challenges that are impacting on the Vaal River system pollution. Indeed we took that visit on the 12 September as indicated. I was joined by the Minister of Human settlements, Water and Sanitation, the Deputy Minister, the Gauteng MEC and the mayors of Sedibeng and Emfuleni respectively as well as senior officials from the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and Gauteng province.
Whilst pollution challenges still remain, we were encouraged by the progress that the intervention of the SANDF has made in resolving the sewage spillage, the infrastructure network blockages, the sewage pollution flowing into the Vaal River. There has been significant progress, through the intervention of the Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation. Progress has been made in upgrading waste treatment plant to respond to then growth of the human settlement areas around Emfuleni. Work is currently underway to expedite the commissioning of additional capacity resulting from upgraded infrastructure. In fact, the work that is happening at
Emfuleni is quite inspiring, but of course we must there has been a delay and lack of maintenance of the existing infrastructure.
We had several discussions with the Minister of Human settlements, Water and Sanitation regarding the situation at Emfuleni and the pollution of the Vaal River. In addition, the Presidency and the Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs are currently having an ongoing engagement with the Office of the Premier in Gauteng and the municipalities so that we can increase our support to that situation.
Given the fact that the Vaal River system cuts through and benefits four provinces, it has been agreed that a collaborative intergovernmental approach is required to holistically respond to the pollution challenges across the entire Vaal River system. In this regard, the provinces of Gauteng, Free State, Mpumalanga and Northern Cape will be required to work together to implement coordinated intervention that will drastically reduce the pollution in the Vaal River.
Within a short while, we will be convening a meeting with the premiers of these affected provinces to ensure that we agree on an
implementation of an integrated plan that will respond comprehensively to the challenges of sewage spillage that continues to pollute the Vaal River. Despite progress made to date, it is evident that more urgent work still needs to be done to fully contain the Vaal River system pollution. In the main urgent intervention includes upgrading of ageing bulk sewer and reticulation infrastructure which contributes to the diversion of sewer into the river.
The team led by the Minister led by the Minister of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation has shared with us a comprehensive plan with clear sets of action and required resources. It has been indicated on our visit that R1,1 billion will be required to stop the pollution of the Vaal River. The Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation working with Gauteng Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agency, the SANDF, Ekurhuleni Water Care Company, Emfuleni Local Municipality and Rand Water have developed an intervention plan to stop the pollution into the Vaal River.
The intervention includes 44 pump stations and three waste water treatment plants namely, Sebokeng Leewkuil and Rietspruit. It also includes replacing and repairing gravity raising mains, leak
detection and addressing deficiencies in the network system. The Minister of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation has already Ekurhuleni Water Care Company to attend to the urgent task of unblocking the sewer reticulation system and fixing leakages to ensure that sewer flows into the Vaal River are completely eliminated.
To successfully deal with water pollution and negative environmental impact, we need to mobilise more and more resources to ensure that the Vaal River situation is completely resolved in the short, medium and the long term. The Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation has reprioritised in its own budget an amount of R240 million in its Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grant to support the SA National Defence Force in its work of improving the sewer treatment plant. The Gauteng Provincial Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Department together with Emfuleni Local Municipality have reprioritised an amount of R90 million and R20 million respectively in order to try and support the work done by the Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation.
The Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation has further requested funding from the National Treasury for the shortfall of R750 million. To fast-track the human settlements
development programme and contribute towards economic development in the Emfuleni Local Municipality the capacity of the waste treatment plants in the area should be augmented. It is estimated that the cost of this project when it is fully completed will cost the country R6 billion and the proposal has been submitted to National Treasury to fund this programme.
As the Presidency we will continue to work closely with all the role- players and stakeholders to ensure that we resolve the sewer spillage challenges and restore the integrity of the Vaal River. Thank you very much.
Hon Chair, thank you Deputy President. The Emfuleni Local Municipality has given up. Thank you for your recent visit, it was much appreciated and you pledged the R1,1 billion which I think is necessary. When the NCOP Gauteng visited a few days later, the executive mayor advised us that they needed R6 billion in order to start and only when they got that R6 billion, it will take another year to fix the problem.
Hon Deputy President, the instruction from the erstwhile Water and Sanitation Minister Nkwinti to get the 44 pump stations running has been ignored. As you say that the SANDF has done a fantastic job at
the treatment works but they are under capacity. They cannot commission the treatment works until the pump stations move the raw sewage up to the treatment works in order to treat it.
The municipality is not spending any of their own money on the sewer network. I am not saying that national government must help them, they have given up. They cannot perform the most basic service delivery tasks due a lack of their own funds. The inability to procure diesel for their vehicles, to enable them to get to sites means that residents suffered recently for four days, with no electricity. Councillors are giving the municipality money for diesel out of their own pockets.
The water leaks are left unattended for three or four days at a time, even though the rest of Gauteng has been asked to save water in this time of water scarcity, because of a lack of capacity and diesel. As you mentioned that the sewage continues to flow into the river network and affecting the drinking water. The municipality has been placed on terms by Eskom and was placed under section 139 administration. All that they did was, they appointed the municipal manager as the administrator. So it was just business as usual.
Hon member, wrap it up.
You gave me seven minutes Chair, I am concluding. Thank you. It is business as usual Deputy President. His first act was to spend R3 million covering up his tracks. When will your government Deputy President get the municipality under full administration?
Thank you very much, well it is one thing to place the municipality under full administration and it is another thing to attend to the problem that is before us. Our intention of visiting there was to try and garner all the support that we can so that all of us can focus to the problem at hand. I am sure, we are going to win.
The urgent task that we said they must report back in two months, we want all the pump stations to be revamped because the problem of the spillage in the township is because of these pumps that are not working. Beyond that, the money that they are requiring is going to made available but will not be made available at a go. We want to see progress. We will move together with the province, the municipality, the Department of Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs so that we derive value for the money that we are going to spend there.
We are going to open the new treatment plants that are there in order to augment, release and relieve the entire system. What is urgent is to unblock the blockages that are there so that sewer can flow and we avoid spillage that goes into the river. I do not think that we should be deterred. Let us be focused, so that we assist the situation there and try and deal with this problem that is affecting the river. The river is a source of life for a number of communities, so it is an urgent situation. Thank you very much.
Question 8 (Continues):
Hon Chairperson, Deputy President, the SA National Defence Force was deployed in Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality to come and assist in the problems of this municipality. The R90 million allocated, that you had just informed the House about it, has been exhausted and they cannot continue now doing what they are supposed to do. Is it true that in the fourth administration there was an allocation of about R3 billion that was allocated to deal with the sewerage problems of Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality? Thank you.
Hon Chairperson, hon member, I am not aware of the money that was allocated in the fourth administration to deal with that problem. The only thing that I am aware of is what is
happening now, in the fifth and the sixth administration where I got closer to the situation. When the defence force was deployed there, money was made available through the Department of Defence and Military Veterans itself. They did the work and they tried to unblock everything and it is better.
I think our soldiers did a very good job there to try and unblock the entire treatment plant that was at standstill. The treatment plant is not working in its full capacity. I can say it is now working more or less at 55%. The problem is that the entire system has blocked and is not bringing sewerage into the treatment plant. They have identified all the pump stations that must pump sewerage in the entire Emfuleni Local Municipality into the system and that has been identified as an urgent step.
In the process, instead of attending to the ageing infrastructure, the municipality was building a new treatment plant. In fact not one treatment plant but two plants adjacent to one another. They could not complete them but the entire system was failing. So, what is happening now is to try and unblock the old system and ensure that it is working because it has been now affecting the Vaal River. Now, beyond that we must open the two new treatment plants so that we can ease the pressure in the entire system. So, yes, I am not aware if
the money was given to this municipality before. I was not really impressed about the management of things in the municipality and I am sure the province will do its best to try and get the municipality to attend to its responsibility.
The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs together with the Department of Human Settlements and Water Sanitation will pull with the municipality to ensure that this project is finished on time. We are going to take another visit early next year to ensure that all the things we have agreed upon have been done. Consistently, we are going to give this House feedback on progress because it is important. The pollution of that river affects the entire the Gauteng, Mpumalanga, Free State and a lot of people. It is a problem that we must attend. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, good afternoon Deputy President, it would appears that the accountability for local government failures just does not exist in the dictionary of our ruling party. Civic organisations like, Save the Environment have on numerous occasions tried to enforce the law by going to court. One of these court cases ensured that the previous Municipal Manager Mr Sam Tshabalala had six warrants against his name and nothing happened.
Mr Deputy President, his transgression was that he did not ensure that the sewerage flowed into the Vaal River. You have now spoken about the pump stations that are working and you have cleaned this and that. If we do not hold officials to account we cannot expect the Vaal River to be cleaned up. What I would like to know from you is when will Mr Sam Tshabalala be arrested and when will the current municipal manager be held accountable for the failures that are currently taking place? Thank you.
Hon member, in terms of the arrest of the municipal manager whoever is there, can you and me allow that to be done by the right institutions that are capable of doing that. I am not sure about the warrant of arrest and what the charge is and all that. So, leave it to them. Your problem, which I understand, the province of Gauteng must attend to the leadership problem in that space. They must attend to it.
Of course what I have noticed at Emfuleni Local Municipality is that also residents there are to be blamed. The municipality cannot have all the money to fix this and that if people are not paying for water and electricity. A municipality is a business; I can only sell you services and you must pay for these services so that I can maintain and continue to provide you services. So, this is a problem
that we were talking about in the first question to say our people must learn to pay for services. If you get water in your house you must know that you must pay for this water and the same as with electricity. This enables whoever is responsible to bring these services can maintain the infrastructure and can continue to supply you with those services. These are some of the weaknesses but that is not to condone the leadership failures. It was supposed to be upon this leadership to ensure that people pay and if people are not paying you have got a right to switch off the services. There is no other way. There is no way where we can get free money to come and fix this infrastructure if people are not paying. That must happen.
With regard to criminal offences and what not, let us allow the police and our justice system to take care of that. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President you have already said in your response but the former Deputy Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Obed Bapela also indicated that if the sewerage system in the Vaal River is left unattended it has a potential of contaminating drinking water to over four provinces which you have mentioned. I would like to know whether the problem has been contained and what long-term plans have been put in place to ensure that we do not experience this challenge again? What
other long-term plans have been put in place so that this challenge affects not water quality but also the environment? Thank you.
Well, since my visit there, I can account for what I have seen on the ground and the briefing that I had and the workings of the treatment plants that I have seen. The bigger treatment plant that is there is now working because of the efforts of the SA National Defence Force to unblock it. It is working at a rate of more or else 55-60%. Remember this treatment plant is receiving the sewerage in the entire Emfuleni Local Municipality. Now, if they say it is working up to 60% and there are still blockages that mean the problem has not been resolved 100%. There are still some spillages along the way that cannot reach the treatment plant. So, that is the work that must be done urgently to try and replace the pump stations so that sewerage can reach the treatment plant. We must commend the intervention by the SA National Defence Force on the work that they have done. It has to a large extent, eased the burden from the community and from the people in and around the Emfuleni Local Municipality. Of course the intervention led by the Human Settlements and Water Sanitation, Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the province, I am confident standing here that it will yield good results. Going
forward, it is the municipality's responsibility to maintain whatever will be left behind. Thank you very much.
Question 9:
Chairperson, we can confirm that indeed we are prioritising certain provinces in terms of stimulating and supporting rural and township economies, especially those that are mostly rural and underserviced.
As we indicated recently in this very House, our objective as this administration is to transform our townships and villages from their current state of labour and consumption reserves into thriving, productive investment hubs.
As government, we are prioritising a spatial approach and bringing a greater subnational focus to our development strategy through the district- based model. This is not only about provincial convergence but also about the relationship between rural and urban spaces, between the poor and the rich municipalities, and between townships and villages to achieve a truly integrated form of development that fosters economic inclusion and job- creation.
At the core of our efforts to revitalise the rural and township economies is creating linkages with national interventions that inform our industrial strategy. The focus is on the expansion of manufacturing, mining, agriculture, and the automotive and other sectors.
As indicated before, an important pillar of this industrial strategy is to develop new economic centres through our spatial economic zones, revitalise industrial sites and develop business and digital hubs. For example, we currently have 10 spatial economic zones that are located and spread across various provinces in our country. These are also based on the comparative advantages of each province and location. Our government efforts in supporting the citrus industry are targeted at the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and the Western Cape, while agroprocessing can support the Free State and Mpumalanga.
The promotion of the beneficiation of our minerals will support mining in the Northern Cape and the North West, as well as expand industrial activities in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal. More importantly, a focus on the beneficiation of raw materials and products will diversify the composition of South Africa's exports to global markets.
The provinces of Gauteng, the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal have the automotive sector, which will support existing and new township and rural businesses in the automotive sector to enter global value chains through the manufacturing of car components. The other intervention by our government is the establishment of additional incubators through the Small Enterprise Development Agency in the provinces of the Free State, Mpumalanga, Limpopo, the Northern Cape and the North West.
Therefore, in co-ordinating all these efforts our primary objective is to build on the existing national efforts that are already under way, expand access and ensure that the development models we introduce assist us in achieving economic inclusion. As government, we endeavour to utilise public- sector procurement in order to leverage the development and growth of rural and township enterprises. On a daily basis, government procures a huge volume of goods and services for consumption in public facilities.
The Office of the Deputy President has already convened technical- level consultations with all provinces to present interventions that are currently being implemented in various provinces. Provinces are already implementing workable models that need upscaling and consolidation to achieve a maximum impact across the country. The
emerging picture is that these empowerment models can best support agricultural production and the local manufacturing of construction material for infrastructure and the built environment projects. These interventions are best placed to support the development of rural and township economies, given their pervasive nature across the country.
As government we have a responsibility to provide the necessary infrastructure, financial and mentorship support to township and rural enterprises. We believe that government has the relevant policies and relevant strategies in place in that ours is to fast- track this work towards efficient and sustainable delivery in the right quality for all South Africans. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, Chairperson. Let me thank the Deputy President for the response to the question tabled. What I would like to know from the Deputy President is the following. In line with the support that you have referred to for rural communities and township communities, what progress are we making - with greater speed - in distributing land to our people, especially for agriculture and for creating a business centre for small, medium
and micro enterprises, SMMEs, in rural areas and townships? Thank you.
Chair, in the near future we will be announcing the parcels of land that will be redistributed to our people, especially new entrants, your people and women. We are currently working on the redistribution policy, the criteria that will be used to identify these young people and to identify women that will benefit from this land redistribution.
The intention of distributing this land is to expand the scope and scale of our production capacity as a country. We are allowing new entrants into the agricultural sector so that we can produce more food for our own domestic consumption and for export purposes. In this area, this sector of our work, we are expecting more and more small and medium enterprises that will be supported by government.
We are also tabling a new support model that will work and be shaped around the district model on how best we are going to support farmers - small-, medium-sized and commercial farmers - located in a district in order to produce. This support model should have all the support mechanisms that government can use to support small farmers, like your crops, your mechanisation. Everything we can do to support
small farmers will be found in the support hub which is located at a district level.
In this way, we want to make use of every space in our land, to cultivate the land, to produce more food, to fight hunger and to export this food. But, in the main, we are also encouraging provinces to support these SMMEs by availing their procurement processes, by availing their buying power as provinces as a market to support these small and medium enterprises - offer them a market for their produce. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, Chair, and my appreciation, Deputy President, for correctly characterising the township economy. The question that I want to pose, Deputy President, is as follows: Has the government also considered reviewing the framework on local economic development, particularly given the fact that the township and rural economies, by their nature, are survivalist and also characterised by low-income households? You have also indicated that technical support will be put in place to drive the district model.
Would the Deputy President also consider putting in place the political infrastructure in the form of political champions to drive this technical support? This is given the fact that at a technical
level we would expect the director-general in the Deputy President's office - or the directors-general in the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs' office, particularly Ministers - to champion these township and rural economies.
In addition, let me also take this opportunity to express gratitude on behalf of the eight senior traditional leaders in John Talao Gaetsewe in Kuruman, Northern Cape, where you were able to provide them with an intervention particularly to boost farming interventions, but also the people of Seoding that you were able to ... [Inaudible.] Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Chair, as government we are insisting on prioritising SMMEs. This importance that we attach to SMMEs can be traced back, can be seen, in our efforts of placing SMME development right at the centre. We even moved further to create the Department of Small Business Development. The Minister of Small Business Development remains the champion. She must champion the development of small businesses. Our understanding is that there cannot be any economy that will drive any big economy. A growing economy has its basis, has its foundation, in small- and medium-sized enterprises. These small enterprises that hire 10, 15, 20 people form a very strong foundation of a thriving economy.
Our attitude of opening up spatial economic zones is to try and take infrastructure into these townships. Our efforts in revitalising the industrial parks are trying to bring infrastructure and services to those forbidden townships and villages where there is poverty. We want to encourage our SMMEs to stay in their rural areas, to stay in their villages, and we will bring the infrastructure that will support them to do business.
You would be aware that in a number of villages and townships there are already these big malls, retail businesses, that have, in a way, undermined these general dealers that were there that we know in the past used to thrive in our townships and our villages. The advent of these big chain stores and malls tended to affect those small general dealers and whatnot.
Our intention is to try and open up and deal with competition models so that these small and medium-sized enterprises - whatever they are producing - should be tested in terms of quality. If they are of a good standard, government must present a platform for them to buy these products. These products can also be sold in those big retail stores.
It is, though, for government to ensure that we intervene. There is no reason why a small farmer who is farming there can't bring his or her produce into these malls. These malls are taking produce from elsewhere and not supporting the farmers close by. There is no reason why a small farmer can't be supported by a department of education that is feeding children. There is no reason why a small farmer cannot be supported by the Department of Correctional Services that is feeding your prisoners ... by the Department of Health that is feeding patients in hospitals. This just needs the intervention of government to ensure that these small enterprises are supported and mentored so that we reduce the rate of their failing.
Some start their businesses and fail. Part of the problem is that these small enterprises - as much as they strive very hard to enter into business and provide services - are not paid on time. Some of the culprits that are not paying these SMMEs on time are our municipalities, our provincial governments and our national government. And that is going to come to an end. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, Chair.
Xitsonga:
Xandla xa Presidente, varimi lavatsongo na vamaki lavatsongo va humesa swimakiwa kambe a va nyikiwi nkarhi wo xavisa swilo swa vona eka timolo letikulu. Tanihi mfumo xana hi tihi tindlela leti mi ti endlaka ku hatlisisa leswaku van'wamabimdzu lavatsongo va kota ku xavisa eka timolo letikulu?
English:
First of all, we must make it a point that these small farmers - these SMMEs - are supported financially and are supported in terms of the relevant skills. If you are in farming, you must know how best to farm so that your produce is of a good quality. It's not like you are just fighting to sell the produce, but that it is of good quality. You are not imposing yourself; you are selling something that is of good quality.
So, government's intervention is to ensure that the production that is happening in those townships and villages is of good quality and supported financially. However, the next step is to ensure that we break this monopoly of the chain stores. We need to ensure that our small and medium- sized enterprises are also given a platform to sell their produce. As government, we must lead by example, because, on a daily basis, we procure goods and services. So why aren't we
offering these SMMEs the platform? We are also bad payers: we buy from SMMEs and take 90 days to pay. This person is employing five or 10 people. If you don't pay this person for 90 days, you are killing his or her business.
So, as much as we are working hard, that the President is working hard to attract foreign investment, that we are working hard as government to support SMMEs, the attitude of government must change - pay services on time. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy President, thank you for the answer that you gave. There is, however, a concern that we hear about projects and interventions year after year, but the majority of them don't always make the impact that we would have hoped that they would make. Quite often it feels like we are throwing good money after these projects and not necessarily getting out what we should.
Isn't it time that we start rolling out such programmes and interventions in conjunction with stakeholders that have a proven track record of delivering? I am going to use one such example and it is a bit tongue-in- cheek, but the Western Cape doesn't just consist of the City of Cape Town. There are rural municipalities in this province as well.
One of those municipalities is called Mossel Bay. That municipality has worked extremely well with a very limited budget to stimulate and support their rural communities in places like Brandwag, Ruiterbos and Friemersheim. With the little funds that they have they have achieved tremendous success. Just last year they were rewarded as one of the best- run municipalities in South Africa by Good Governance Africa. Just imagine what those municipalities can do with financial backing and support by the national government to successfully establish best practices and then roll those out to other municipalities. Isn't it time that we start rewarding good behaviour of municipalities with a proven track record, and not just keep on chasing those that have scandal upon scandal upon scandal and which don't deliver what we expect?
So would you be filling to take hands with municipalities like Mossel Bay and give them financial backing on the basis of their good track records of good governance and then establish best practices that we can roll out to the rest of the country?
Well, thank you very much. We would like to visit this municipality of Mossel Bay so that we can learn the good things that they doing. It's always important to learn from those people who are excelling at what they do, but the difference is that
those who are failing should not be abandoned. We are not going to abandon those that are failing. We are going to assist them until they succeed. We are going to learn from those that are doing well and we are going to replicate those good models, because this is just a question of party politics in our case. I don't think South Africans really entertain our party-political differences. South Africans want progress.
Now, as you can see and hear outside here, South Africans are happy about the achievement of the Springboks. They are not worried about our party- political differences. They are happy about an achievement. [Applause.]
So, as much as we do our work, let's see what is working, let's replicate what is working, and let's try and attend to what is not working and correct it. I'm open to visiting that municipality. It is my responsibility; it's government. So, I can't say, "No, I can't visit this municipality because it's run by the DA." No. I am going to visit that municipality, learn what I can learn, replicate good practices and assist those that are not doing very well. This is because if you assist those municipalities, you are assisting the population and the communities around those municipalities around those municipalities. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Question 10:
Chair, our primary role in leading government business in Parliament involves the following key responsibilities :Monitoring the affairs of the National Executive in Parliament, ensuring programming of parliamentary business initiated by the National Executive within the time allocated for that purpose, ensuring that cabinet members attend their parliamentary responsibility, performing any other function provided for by the joint rules or a resolution of the National Assembly or NCOP or resolutions adopted in both Houses. In this regard we constantly remind members of the executive to prioritise their parliamentary responsibilities, including responding to parliamentary questions timeously, both oral and written. Furthermore as leader of government business in Parliament, we are required to present in every cabinet meeting a status report of all outstanding written replies in both Houses of Parliament and the roster of attendance of all ministers and deputy ministers.
According to the latest, leader of government business report that was presented to cabinet on 30 October 2019. The Minister of Public Enterprises was asked a total of five written questions from the NCOP and all of them have since been responded to. We have also been advised that in the Fifth Parliament, Fifth administration, the
Minister received a total of 54 questions from the EFF of which out of the 54, 53 were answered and only one question remained unanswered or it lapsed. It is against this backdrop that we equally encouraged all members of Executive to fulfil their obligation as imposed upon them by the constitution and the joint rules of Parliament by not only responding to parliamentary questions but through participation in all legislative processes and appearing before relevant committees to give effect to their accountability role. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, Deputy President law makers of the EFF wrote letters to Minister Gordhan. The first letter was to ask about his relationship with Werkmans Attorneys, the same letter was to ask about why he didn't disclose his UK trip, paid by Werkmans Attorneys. The third letter was to ask why his interference in the appointment of Mango Chief Executive Officer, CEO, Nico Buizendenhout who does not even have the entry level matric. The fourth letter was to ask about the appointment of the incompetent Eskom Chair, Jabu Mabuza. Now, Minister Gordhan keeps on ignoring law makers of the EFF, he acts as if he is above the law, he acts as if he is above Parliament itself. Now to you this type of conduct, doesn't this amount to a constitutional delinquent?
I am sure, the relationship that we have here in Parliament, members of Parliament and the Executive, there is a defined relationship that is governed by our rules, governed by the law of our country, the Constitution. Today, I am standing in front of you not because I want to; it's because of the rules that govern these Houses. [Appluase.] I can not come here as I wish, it's compulsory for me to stand in front of you and to respond to your question, I am not making you a favour it's a responsibility that I must fulfil, so I will encourage that we stay within the confines of the law, I can't say anything if you a written private letters to each other. [Appluase.] You see, I am compelled to answer your question, because your question has been processed the right way through this House and the question has come me and I am answering it, I don't have a choice. [Appluase.] If write to one another outside realm of this House, how will I know? How will I know? I can go and ask the Minister and say the hon members of EFF in the NCOP have written to you and the Minister might say "No, they have not; I have not received the letter". So the best way to ensure that any communication from yourself gets to the members of Executive is through your systems in the House. Thank you very much.
The point are you rising on, hon member?
On a point of order.
Yes, what is the point of order?
Law makers, both in Parliament and the NCOP have got no reason at all to write private letters to ministers. We wrote official letters and we have got proof...
...but what is your point of order?
... as a Deputy President, we are asking, does that type of attitude not amounting to constitutional delinquency? You did not answer the question.
Thank you very much. That's not a point order, hon Nyambi.
Chair, thanks Deputy President for your detailed response. We view this arrangement that we are in today as an important session for oversight, but one thing for sure we can't turn question session to Deputy President to a complain platform for members of Parliament, who should be well aware of processes that should be followed when raising conduct
about executive members. My question to you Deputy President is; has there been any formal complain raised with you as leader of government business or Deputy President by any member of Parliament or political party or even through leadership of Parliament, particularly presiding officers about the alleged persistent ignorance of correspondences and questions by the Minister of Public Enterprises? Thank you.
Chair, thanks hon member, I am not aware of any written request that came to my office to say there is this problem. I am not aware, the position of a leader of government business it's a very important position, so that if there are problem between the executive, Parliament and the NCOP that position remains a conduit to resolve these problems. So we must use it, because the intention is to get the Minister concern to respond. The intention is not just to make a statement; we want the response, so we are here. You can formally write to the office of the leader of government business and raised that concern, but from time to time I am working with these institutions, the NCOP, I am working with the National Assembly, I am following all questions for written reply, all questions for oral reply, I am looking at all of them. I know which minister has not answered this question and that question and I follow up on your behalf, that's what I do. [Appluase.] To say
minister, you have not responded to this question, it's now almost
12 days, what is the problem, respond to this question, why are you not responding, why are not giving a written reply? So, that's my role, probably next time let's formalise the complaining system. Thank you.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, Mhlonishwa Sekela Mongameli uma ngempela ziyiqiniso lezi zinto zokuthi oNgqongqoshe bayaqhubeka nokushaya indiva imibuzo evela kumalungu, lolu daba olubucayi loMthethosisekelo esingeke siluthathe kalula. Ngakho ke kubalulekile ukuthi le Ndlu nabantu baseNingizimu Afrika bahlomule ngokuthi bazi izinto ezimbili njengoba ubusuchazile. Manje umbuzo wami Sekela Mongameli uthi: Ngabe uSekela Mongameli usetsheliwe ngenqubo emisiwe yemibuzo? Ingabe le mibuzo yathunyelwa ngendlela ehambisana nenqubo yokuthunyelwa nokuphendulwa kwemibuzo ngendlela ehambisana nemithetho esunguliwe kule Ndlu? Ingabe le mibuzo iyavela uma ibekwa ephepheni lemibuzo? Kuyisiphakamiso ke sami ukuthi uma uSekela Mongameli engenayo le mibuzo, sikuhlehlise ukuphendulwa kwayo bese sibuya sithola impendulo kungekudala.
I will give the opportunity to the Deputy President to make his comment, of course the questions are
somewhat similar, but there maybe an angle or two that makes them slightly different.
Thank you very to the question and the comment. The procedure that you are using as this House, to channel questions to Ministers, all of us, to the President and to the Deputy President is the procedure that we are all acquainted to. I am not aware of any other procedure and it would be very difficult for me to find out, if anything can happen outside these known procedures. I said I am responding to these questions because they came from yourself through your processes and finally they reached my office. I took the trouble to sit down and respond to these questions, I was not there when you were asking these questions, but the questions finally arrived at my desk, through the processes that we set in place ourselves. That is why I am here today to respond. So I can only account as a leader of government for all the questions that were put in system, either for written responses or for oral responses, but I am not going to just dismiss the hon members. Beyond this I want all copies of these letters that were written so that we can assist them. Thank you.
Chair, I am visiting today from the Gauteng Provincial Legislature. [Applause.] My name is Micheal Shackleton as
introduced by the Chair, thank you. Hon Deputy President, the problem of unanswered...
...order hon members, hon Micheal Shackleton is speaking in this House for the first time, so let's give him space to raise the question.
Yes, thank very much Chair for your protection. Hon Deputy President the problem of unanswered written questions does not just lie with the Minister of Public Enterprises; most of the Cabinet Ministers are equally guilty of failure to reply to DA, NCOP written questions. A total of between 70 to 80 written questions have been left unanswered by various ministers. The top offenders include the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs with nine, the Minister of Police with eight and Minister of Telecommunication and Postal Services with five. As the leader of government business what will you do to compel ministers to abide by the obligation of being accountable to Parliament and thus answer their written questions? Thank you.
Like I said every time in Cabinet, we present a report that takes into account all the questions that are submitted by members in both Houses and we check with the offices of
the different ministers, whether they have responded and we are aware even on the number of questions that remained unanswered, we are aware of the number of questions that were answered, so we start to have a problem with the minister if the number of questions that remain unanswered goes beyond 10. Ten is an acceptable number, they can work on it but we also put the timeline, to say these questions can not go beyond this timeline, they must be answered to. We don't accept the all minister's...as I speak no one has got more than 20 questions outstanding. All of them rove around some two or three, around 12 but the rest it's three, and four, five they are all within the acceptable limit. When they go overboard, then I step in and demand that these questions must be answered. So, there is no extraordinary situation, we all fine. This question I think it arises because the letters and the questions that we talk about have not fallowed the normal parliamentary procedure. It was a communication between minister and the members but not through the process of Parliament. Thank you
What's the point of order?
Chair, I want to bring to the attention of the Deputy President that he must not be surprised whilst members are hackling Mike a non-permanent delegate, we are not used to it. Most non-
permanent delegates come and warm these benches and leave afterwards. Thanks Mike for coming to...[Applause.]
Thank you very much, we will proceed to
...yes, is that a point of order hon Nyambi?
Chair, I never wanted to disturb the Deputy President, but it's a point of order, in relation to a previous speaker. Coming to the House making statement that is misleading the House, on Tuesday this week here in the House, when we were dealing with the economic cluster, we happen to have three departments, three ministers and as a NCOP we have a rule that punishes those who are not responding to questions and he mentioning ministers who were here to account, deliberately misleading the House, so I am making a point of that make a ruling that probably in the next sitting about that statement made by that hon member, because he is deliberately misleading this House.[Applause.]
Hon Nyambi, let's not have a dialogue in the House, we will look at the stats and the details and at the next meeting make a ruling a on the matter, but for now let's leave the situation as is. Thank you very much.
Question 11:
Chairperson, Chapter 2 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, provides for the Bill of Rights that sets out the fundamental rights of all South Africans, including the right to dignity and the right to equality. This Bill of Rights is a cornerstone of our democracy and individual rights. It enshrines that the rights of all people in our country and affirms the democratic values of human dignity, equality and freedom. Furthermore, section 9 (3) of the Bill of Rights refers to equality and provides as follows:
The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.
Not withstanding our constitutional provision. The hon member should note that our laws should not be in violation of international law that we are signatories to. Under international law, the sovereignty of the state and the right to exercise their independence including their own laws without the interference of other states it guaranteed. In this regard, our government upholds the international
principle of non interference in the internal affairs of other states. South Africa only intervenes in situation where parties in conflict officially, request our assistance or intervention.
Similarly, South Africa respects the sovereignty of the republic of Uganda and any other nation. In cases where our positions, our values and approaches are in conflict with those of other countries, South Africa is of the view that such matters are best resolved at multilateral forums as provided for by our international conventions. In light with our constitutional provision, we condemn any form of Human Rights violation and abuses, especially when it's perpetrated by any state, including those directed to lesbians, gays and transgender persons, otherwise known as