I shall now put the question. I shall therefore move on to ask hon Shaik to make a declaration. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, hon members of this august House, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, Amendment Bill
emanates from a Constitutional Court judgement. On 6 September 2016, the Constitutional Court held that sections 6(3)(a) and 6(6) of the IPID Act which allowed for the suspension, disciplinary action and removal of the Executive Director by the Minister of Police, were invalid and inconsistent with section 206(6) of the Constitution which refers to an independent police complaints body.
The Portfolio Committee on Police in the National Assembly initiated the committee Bill in order to give effect to the Constitutional Court judgment. The Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill contains three clauses and the amendments aim to:
Cure the constitutional defects identified by the Constitutional Court; and provide for greater independence of the Executive Director in fulfilling his obligations and mandate; and to create legal certainty on the process for suspension and removal of the Executive Director.
The Bill was referred to the fifth Parliament Select Committee on Security and Justice on 4 September 2018. The fifth Parliament select committee advertised the Bill for public comment and received seven submissions on the Bill. During its deliberations on the Bill and the submissions, it became clear to the committee that most of
the submissions refer to a process that is broader than the amendments contained in the current Bill before the Committee. The organisations, including IPID, wished to have the entire IPID Act reviewed which fell outside the ambit of the current amendments to the Bill before the committee.
The committee therefore noted that while there was a need for a broader review of the IPID Act, the broader policy discussion would be better placed at the departmental level. Due to the fact that the IPID Amendment Bill before the committee only sought to remedy the constitutional provisions of the IPID Act, the committee adopted the Bill without any amendments.
The committee is of the view that the constitutional amendments to the IPID Bill, will contribute to ensuring IPID's independence as an institution capable of fulfilling its important role of being a watchdog over SAPS. The Select Committee on Security and Justice recommends that the NCOP adopts the report and the Bill with no amendments. Thank you Chairperson.
It does appear as if the hon Shaik has been dealing with the Second Order on the Order Paper and not the
First Order as required. So can I please request her to please come back to the podium and deal with the First Order?
Hon Chairperson, my apologies. It has been a long day. But once again, hon Chairperson and members of this august House, the Child Justice Amendment Bill's primary objective is to amend the Child Justice Act, 2008, Act No 75 of 2008, in order to:
Increase the minimum age of criminal capacity of a child, to remove the requirement to prove criminal capacity for purposes of diversion and preliminary inquiries and to provide for consequential amendments.
One of the key features of the Child Justice Act is that it provides for a minimum age of criminal capacity of children. The age of criminal capacity is defined as the age children are presumed to know the difference between right and wrong and to act in accordance with that knowledge. The key aim therefore of the Child Justice Amendment Bill is to increase the age of criminal capacity of children from 10 to 12 years as this would also be in line with South Africa's international obligations.
South Africa ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the African Charter, and thereby incurred various obligations regarding the treatment of children, including children in conflict with the law. States parties, like South Africa, were encouraged to increase their minimum age of criminal capacity to 12 years as an absolute minimum and to continue to increase it to a higher age level. It is in line with this obligation that the committee agreed to increase the age of criminal capacity from 10 years to 12 years and noted that the department would review the age within five years again.
The fifth Parliament Select Committee on Security and Justice advertised the Bill for public comment. Two submissions were received; one from the Centre for Child Law and the second one from Mr Marius Redelinghuys. During its deliberations on the Bill and the submissions, the department noted that the Centre for Child Law submission was largely catered for by the Portfolio Committee on Justice amendments made to the Bill and the department replied in detail to Mr Redelinghuys' submission.
In light of this, the committee determined that no amendments were required to the Bill and proceeded to adopt the Bill without amendments. The Select Committee on Security and Justice recommends
that the NCOP approves the report and the Bill without amendments. I thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you very much hon Shaikh. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. But before we move on, with accordance to Rule 63, I shall now allow the political parties to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. No declarations? The Bill that we are looking at is the First Order, Child Justice Amendment Bill.
Declaration of vote:
Chairperson, the social development and assistance to the wellbeing of the children in this country is not enough. For instance, it has been reported that there is rapid escalation of a number of children headed household in the country. These children are then more vulnerable to be drawn into criminal activities, drug abuse and dropping out of school at an early age. Criminal capacity meets an appreciation of a wrongfulness of an act and reconciling oneself to that wrongfulness.
In the presence of all social illness facing the development of children in this country, can we, for certain, reconcile ourselves with a 12 year old having a criminal capacity? Why should be seek to
criminalise children for failure of the state to provide good enough foundation for the proper development of our children?
Children do not choose to be born in informal settlements where at times the only way out of poverty is through criminal activity. It is rather the government that sustains those conditions through promoting unequal distribution of wealth. We support the spirit of the Bill in raising the age of criminal capacity but we would have liked the Bill to have gone further than it has now. We therefore reject the Bill in its current format. Thank you Chairperson.
There being no other declarations, can those in favour say yes, those against say no and those abstaining say, abstain? We shall now proceed to voting and this should be done electronically. Delegates will vote by pressing in favour, against and the abstain button. Are we ready hon members? [Interjections.] Voting will now ... [Interjections.] Yes Du Toit
Thank you Chair, its hon Du Toit. Could you just open the vote please?
That's what I am going to do in the next few seconds. Please proceed and assist the member at the
back. Okay, hon member at the back, are you sorted out? I am told that one of the ways in which we can really proceed so that we avoid difficulties is, members who are experiencing problems must just raise their hands and they will be assisted. [Interjections.]
It does seem that we have a problem with the system. [Interjections.] If that is the case, then can we request the Whips to assist because we will do it manually? [Interjections.] We will look at this situation. I am sure it requires the [Inaudible.] attention.
Chairperson!
Yes. Do you want to comment?
Sorry Chairperson, it seems like everyone's buttons are fixed, so ...
Are we ready? [Interjections.] Can the people who are ready please raise their hands so that I can see - people who are ready to vote electronically. Okay, please put your hands down. Can those people who are not ready - who have problems - raise their hands? [Interjections.] We seem to be ready.
Voting
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.