How did we organise the NUM? James Motlatsi, Elijah Barayi and a number of others, Paul Nkuna, bear testimony to this. We went into the mines, started trying to organise, and mineworkers would not join the union. They said: You are insurance agents and why should we join the union? The question they kept on asking, hon Malema, was: Have you got permission from management to come and organise us? We said, no. They said: We don't want to get fired, so we are not going to join your union, and in any event, we think it is an insurance company.