Madam Chairperson, that's a question not relevant to this debate and, really, I would expect the DA to come up with something a little more creative than that. [Interjections.] Let's come back to the fiscal soundness of what we do.
We can give the assurance to Mr Sogoni, as he has given to the public, that we run a reliable ship that ensures that we have stability and certainty within our environment. He's also absolutely correct that unemployment is a crucial issue in South Africa and that the balance we need to get right over the next five years or so years, if not more, is the balance between what we do for social security purposes and what we do to ensure that people have jobs in this country and the dignity that goes with jobs.
We thank Mr Sogoni and his committee's commitment to oversight, monitoring and evaluation, although there is a lot more room for us to do better, to examine a lot more carefully where exactly the public and taxpayers' money is being spent and whether our bureaucracy of about one million people are committed to ensuring value for money, which all sides of the House want and are committed to.
The hon Ramatlakane also emphasised the "value for money" issue. Again, it's the ANC that has provided leadership in this regard, particularly after the recession hit us. We must all ensure that committees in Parliament do not compromise on the issue of value for money; that Parliament in fact acquires the appropriate capability, skill, energy and perhaps even the sense of urgency that is required to ensure that money is in fact being spent on what we expect it to be spent on. More importantly, all departments must ensure that we do get reliable outputs and the value for money that we want. Mr Ramatlakane, the developmental state is built, it is developing itself and it is, I can assure you, in action.
There is no doubt that all of us around this room will agree that this state can do better. There is no doubt that we can improve performance in a number of areas. But to suggest, as hon Swart does, that we are on the precipice and about to face an apocalypse in this country is not quite in keeping with the character I know the hon Swart to be. I know him as a glass half-full guy and not as a glass half-empty guy, but I can understand that the party line is important and has to be taken and projected. So, he finds and gives us 15 reasons as to why, regrettably, the DA can't agree on a budget of R889 billion.
When we go through the numbers, what we have is a set of numbers that gives us at most R5 billion. Where is the other R884 billion that is, I think, reasonably well spent? Even if we say R20 billion is not well spent in the state, there is still over R800 billion that we are spending every day, paying public servants - some of whom must definitely do better than they are doing - delivering services to people - because our schools and hospitals work, although they don't work adequately. Yes, we want better quality but we've certainly over the last 10 to 12 years improved access to all of the public services that we offer the South African public.
So, Mr Swart, I trust that you'll be able to bring some influence to bear on your party. Get them to forget their party line by the end of this process and concur with us that the Appropriation Bill takes South Africa in the right direction. Our spending, broadly, is moving in the right way. Let's look for reasons to support rather than reject the Appropriation Bill. But what we have is the opposite process. We've tried to look for all the reasons why we can't support. Any fair reading of the arguments that have been put forward certainly doesn't bear out the conclusion that you've come to.
Hon Singh, thank you very much for your support of the Bill. We would agree with you that the establishment of the Budget Office is something that will certainly assist Parliament. We would think that that resource should be well equipped both in terms of personnel and other technical resources. We believe that that would enrich the process of interrogating the budget, getting better accountability to Parliament and getting parliamentarians more involved in this process as well.
We agree that there are areas of concern, which you share with the hon Swart as well, around mud schools, money not being spent and outstanding land claims. We agree with you on all of those issues as well, but the problem is not to just point a finger in that direction. We should rather ask ourselves how we can collectively work together to solve these problems, rather than merely pointing them out.
My colleague the hon Mkhulusi from the ANC has clearly done extensive work in the education area and the concern she raises is a valid one which all of us share. Having emphasised access over the last 10 years to both education and health and, in her case, education, can we now for the next five years focus on quality? Minister Motshekga, among other colleagues on the government side, is fully committed to ensuring that the focus on quality is what we will receive over the next few years.
Yes, we have all the diagnostics right about what doesn't work in education but repeating the diagnostics doesn't really help. Let's focus on what we are going to do, what each of us is going to deliver and how do we, in the shortest possible time and with the greatest sense of urgency, address the concerns that all of us have in rebuilding an education system that can do justice to the millions of learners that we need to serve, but more importantly, improve the skills of our teachers so that they can deliver education more effectively.
The hon Swart from the ACDP raises a valid question. Are we getting the balance right between productive investment and expenditure on consumption? This is something, an imbalance, that has entered our system not because of our doing. It's because of the recession that came in from the United States and government wants to ensure over the next few years that we get consumption or, if you like, the productive investment balance absolutely right and to move more in the direction of investing in productive infrastructure, issues and projects that will give us more jobs. We would fully agree with you in this regard as well.
The hon Matladi raises questions about the mismanagement of funds, procurement and qualified audit reports. Again, we agree with all of these issues. I'm not sure whether your diagnosis is entirely correct - that we can blame everything on officials. Procurement often goes wrong not because of what officials do but also because of what business does, wherever that business comes from. For a long time we've been saying that we want the right partnership between the business sector and the public sector so that we can cure the improper procurement practises that we face in this country.
The hon Mashigo has focused on education, health and rural development. One can only agree with her appeal to open your hearts, share your resources and focus on the real concerns that will make South Africa a much better country for all of us to live in. If we do so, then we can actually ensure that even in the next three years of this Parliament we can show more results to our people about how we've improved their lives.
Finally, the Appropriation Bill should receive the support of even the DA because this is about a Bill which says that we are supplying resources to all parts of the country, including the Western Cape. You can't have this situation where on the one hand you support the Division of Revenue Bill, which allocates the equitable share to the provinces, but we don't support the Appropriation Bill which has conditional grants that will go to the Western Cape as well. I hope that this schizophrenia ends at some stage and we cordially invite the DA to join us in supporting this Bill. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded
Question put.