Mr Chairperson, I will respect that. First of all, I want to thank the hon the Minister for his complete honesty in explaining the problem. I think he is indeed a breath of fresh air. He did not come here to knock us down and say that we have no right to criticise him. In all humility he admitted the faults. I think he really is an asset to his party.
The NCOP should be used as a platform to build positive relationships between provinces, as well as between provinces and the central Government. Such relationships should be driven by a conflation of strategic and economic interests, and a coincidence of values relating to federalism and democracy.
Let us identify and promote our points of conflation of interests instead of using this House merely to highlight our points of conflict.
The Western Cape government has consistently objected at Minmec to the introduction of the IDT as an intermediary between the central Government and provincial governments. We have insisted on provinces being allowed to identify, evaluate and monitor their own projects for poverty alleviation. We have said we do not need an IDT. We have warned against time-wasting and bureaucratic bungling, but it all fell on deaf ears.
The previous Minister for Welfare and Population Development was so centrist in her thinking that she considered herself to have a monopoly on wisdom. Provinces are sometimes treated as though they are under the guardianship of some national Ministers. The time has come for provinces to be trusted as original centres of political power and not mere administrative extensions of national Ministers. [Interjections.]
Minmec should not be used as a tool to dilute provincial powers and whip provinces into line. We are not political spheres of inferior quality and competences. The current Minister's easy-going disposition has greatly contributed to a new era of co-operative governance between his department and the provinces. I think that the hon the Minister is a good listener. His predecessor could not claim such fame. [Interjections.] The eradication of poverty should be a priority on the agenda of each Ministry and in each sphere of government. The main legacy we must leave behind is how effectively we dealt with poverty eradication and empowerment of people. According to the information at hand, 90% of the 1998-99 budget for poverty relief has now been allocated and only 10% is outstanding. But I wonder whether the IDT has paid over this money? This is merely money that has gone to them. What have they done with the 90%? I would like the hon the Minister to tell me, please.
This Government's policy goals are continuously being sabotaged by incompetency at administrative level. We spent too much time and effort talking, consulting and establishing forums, and too little real delivery is taking place. [Interjections.]
My appeal to the hon the Minister is to insist that each province establishes its own poverty desk under a line function ministry, that the money for poverty relief be made part of provincial budgets as a conditional grant, and that local authorities should be co-opted to serve on these poverty desks because they also have a great contribution to make in terms of urban renewal. Provinces have far greater capacity to manage funds for poverty eradication than the IDT will ever have. It will also obviate unnecessary administrative costs. I want to ask the hon the Minister to lay down the necessary guidelines. I believe money should be allocated to provinces for maintaining and improving current housing stock. We are allowing our housing stock to go to the ghettos.
We need urban renewal programmes, we need training and financing of new small entrepreneurs, and we need monitoring of these projects at provincial level. We need to train and finance entrepreneurs and they, in turn, will create job opportunities. The present system whereby the state tries to finance community-driven projects fails, because the profit motive is absent.
We look to the hon the Minister to turbocharge the vehicle to attack poverty and to show greater confidence in the ability of provinces to help him lead the attack.
Lastly, I want to ask the hon the Minister please to amend the laws to do away with the means test in terms of which pensioners, when they get R500 pension, dare not have a side income or spare income because their pensions get taken away or are reduced. We have no right to tell pensioners R500 is their limit of income, and if they earn anything more than that, we shall reduce their pensions.