Madam Chairperson, NCOP Chair, MECs, comrades and friends, this debate is particularly welcome and I congratulate you on organising it. I bring to you the very good wishes of Minister Shiceka. As most of you will know, he was a member of this House not so long ago, and so the NCOP is very close to his heart.
Indeed, the NCOP is very close to the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, because if we are going to work on the new, emerging model of co-operative governance, the NCOP is a very, very crucial partner for us, more so than the National Assembly. And it seems to me that this debate should not just be about the NCOP, of course. It should also be about the NA. The NA should be looking at and reviewing its role, so that it is more effective and efficient in accelerating service delivery and development, to which we are all committed. In fact, Parliament as a whole should be doing this sort of introspection, and I congratulate you once again.
Parliament is ultimately the tribune of the people. It is the organ of people's power. It is Parliament that holds the executive to account. It is Parliament that represents the people to the executive. It is Parliament that puts pressure on the executive to ensure that we deliver on our mandate, as it does on both Houses -not least the NCOP - to ensure that the work we do contributes to service delivery and development. A crucial measure of the quality of a democracy is the vibrancy and effectiveness of its Parliament. In our case, we have two equally important Houses and we have huge developmental tasks, which means that these two Houses also have to work together and engage with the executive much more stridently than what I, for what it is worth, think is currently the case.
When it comes to co-operative government and intergovernmental relations, friends, the NCOP has a very, very crucial role to play. After all, as has been said repeatedly today, you are the legislature in which all three spheres converge. You are unique, in fact. If I am correct, NCOP Chair, I think this is one of the only national legislatures anywhere in the world in which local government is represented.
While I am on the subject, I think it is about time we considered looking into the possibility of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, actually having a vote in the National Council of Provinces. It is something we need to debate. In the same way, we need to consider what Councillor Johnson just said, which is that when the NCOP is deciding on interventions, Salga should be allowed to address the House. Why not, in my view? Let us look into those sorts of things.
It strikes me that Mr Harris is actually remarkably narrow-minded. Presumably it reflects the party he comes from. It is a minority party and it is difficult for them to go beyond a minority perspective. However, it is a remarkably technocratic, elitist, and narrow understanding of the Constitution. Indeed, the references he makes to the Constitution are abysmally crude. This is out of context with the overall system of the need for co-operative governance that is conveyed in the Constitution as a whole.
And for a member of the legislature, it is remarkable, too, that he would want to say that the role of intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance resides primarily in the executive. Why? Why should Parliament not take responsibility? If you like, there are two dimensions to intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance, if he has not worked it out yet. One is an executive and the other is the legislature, and really, the power should reside in the legislature.
None of the structures we have - Minmecs, Munimecs, the President's Co- ordinating Council and the premiers' co-ordinating forums - can substitute for the role of the NCOP; by no means. In fact, your very rationale for existing, surely, is partly the role you play in co-operative governance and intergovernmental relations. Partly, if not, substantially, the reason Salga is here is precisely because you have a crucial role to play in co- operative governance.
I could reply, if there was time. The whole 15 minutes would be consumed by it, but there are three quick things I want to say: firstly, he essentially conflates the role of the executive in Parliament; secondly, he does not seem to understand that Parliament is located in the people, and whatever the executive does is irrelevant to the extent that you represent the people more than we in the executive do; and thirdly, he is offering technical solutions. I will skip that. It will take me too long to explain.
I think I will move on to say that if you look at the topic, in fact, maybe, just maybe, it should have been the role of the NCOP in co-operative governance, not just government. So, that links both the sense in which you represent the people and civil society out there and the sense in which you relate to the other two spheres in so far as we are speaking of the NCOP as a national sphere.
You will be pleased to know that I will not be repeating what has been said many, many times today - what the role in the Constitution is for the NCOP. I will skip that, for which I hope I will get some applause, because you have heard it so many times. [Applause.] And if you do not applaud me, I will read it word for word and that will really bore you. And there is nothing wrong with being bored in Parliament. What is wrong with that? We are all human, and in a three-hour debate, obviously one's mind drifts, and so, really ...
Coming back to the point, though, I think there is a sense in which we must understand too, that since 1996, there has been no major intergovernmental dispute that has been taken to a court for settlement. It is partly because the NCOP is here, and partly that the three spheres have some scope to address those issues through a structure like this and fulfil what Chapter 3 of the Constitution requires of us in the three spheres - that we do not use the courts and we settle disputes through intergovernmental mechanisms and processes, one of which is, of course, the NCOP.
Chairperson of the NCOP, I welcome your proposal that the NCOP should set up specific committees, as I understood you to say, to have scrutiny and oversight over how intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance is working. We think that is a wonderful idea. We also think that with the National Planning Commission and the developmental role that we all have to play, the NCOP is again reinforced in the need for it to play an active role in intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance.
I will skip some of these very ... I want to quote to you how we should never write in government. What does this actually mean? The person who helped me with the speech - and I have taken only chunks of it, mercifully - reminds us that the 2007 guide says that "IGR is all about complex and interdependent relations amongst three spheres of government as well as the co-ordination of public policies amongst national, provincial and local government". This is very wordy. Basically, it was far more clearly set out, I think, by many members of the House.
In the 1999 audit we speak of the following:
... an interacting network of institutions at national, provincial and local levels, created and refined to enable the various parts of government to cohere in a manner which is appropriate to its institutional arrangements... It is an evolving system of institutional co-operation that seeks to address the relations and quality ...
These are many words, actually. It can be easily simplified by explaining - and especially to our friend, Mr Harris - that intergovernmental relations are evolving all the time. I think the NCOP is poised now, more than ever before, to play a very effective role. [Interjections.] Has my time expired?