Chairperson, one of the things that we learnt from the Eastern philosophers is, basically, doing more with less. That is the ingenuity of people. The second aspect of it is winning wars without fighting. I think the Ministers of Finance, globally, have been striving throughout the ages to basically understand this genius of doing more with less. That is one of the things you will see in every budget, because there is never ever enough for everything.
In fact, those of us who have read the Bible, who are of Christian faith, would understand that it is through the miracle of the seven loaves and two pieces of fish that the multitudes were fed. Hence it is called a miracle. Those are some of the things that we should understand. How do we ensure that departments and government entities at different spheres are able to do more with less? Hence there is this issue around value for money.
A number of hon members have raised the whole issue of whether we are spending properly. My colleague from the Western Cape, MEC Brown, basically raised this issue that if we allocate resources to administer or provide services, are we really able to monitor and ensure that the policies of this government are fulfilled through that spending? This is one of the biggest tasks confronting Parliament in general, but specifically the NCOP. As you said earlier on, the NCOP has acquitted itself very well in ensuring that the issue is value for money.
I also want to talk a little bit about the issues around conditional grants. I had the honour and the rare opportunity to serve on two sides of the spectrum. I was MEC of Finance and Economic Affairs in Gauteng for 10 years and now I have the honour of being the Deputy Minister of Finance. The issue of conditional grants has always been an issue that is characterised by a whole range of debates and tension, tension from the provinces that ask why it is that we prescribe around the whole issue of the detail, in terms of administration of spending and also of administering these conditional grants. Because I have had the opportunity of being on the other side of the spectrum, I understand that one of the instruments, as the members of the NCOP have indicated, of ensuring that there is targeted spending is to deal with specific priorities of government at any given period. This is one such instrument to ensure that we are able to earmark certain resources for specific activities and for specific service delivery functions. That is one of the key things of these conditional grants, but the debate and the discussions around the best way of administering these conditional grants is indeed an ongoing matter.
I was quite taken aback by the example mentioned by hon Mchunu around the rural areas. One of the things from her input that clearly indicates that times are changing and that the digital age is upon us, is the whole issue around the importance of connectivity. We should not undermine that. It means people are able to reach family and friends wherever they are, because they move around with this connectivity in their pockets. Hence it becomes a priority to charge that connectivity.
It is one of the challenges that the hon Sogoni also indicated, that the key thing is that there is this competition between fixed lines and wireless connections. It is a big competition that Telkom is confronting. At the end of the day, even with my computer, I no longer need a fixed line to access the Internet. This is a big competition. In fact, in the rural areas you will find that the wireless connections are much more cost- effective than fixed lines. That is one of the things I think our key parastatals are looking at.
I have no quarrel with the issues raised by the hon Ms Robinson. You did, however, raise the important issue of increasing public participation in the Budget process. It is indeed important, but I just want to remind everyone what it is that we do in the National Treasury to increase this public participation: Firstly, there is Tips for Trevor, to ensure that more and more ordinary citizens are able to write to the Minister of Finance about their ideas. We all know that the Minister of Finance draws inspiration and also takes some of these written submissions quite seriously. In all his Budget Speeches he makes specific reference to Tips for Trevor.
Secondly, one of the most important engagements is engaging with the representatives of the people. Those are found in the NA and in the NCOP. Our democracy assumes that Members of Parliament basically represent beyond just themselves. They represent the inspirations, the fears and dreams of our people. Hence, when the Budget is debated in the NA or in the NCOP, it is an important engagement with our people, not just with a few members who sit around on benches. Broadly, they also represent a specific constituency out there. That is an important mechanism.
Thirdly, there is our engagement with Nedlac. Nedlac is a forum where labour and government meet. That is where we engage with a whole range of stakeholders and with the community to deal with Budget matters. Therefore, I would like to ask a question, because it is also in the interests, of government to increase this public participation: What else do we need to do, given the time limitations that we have? That is one of the things that are important to do, so that when we make a recommendation it is also important to come up with possible solutions. We are always open to deal with the issues that are raised. It is through "Siyimbumba". [We are one.]
My colleague from Mpumalanga raised an issue around the fact that too few farms are allocated. That is why I am saying it is an issue of seven loaves. One of the things we should also be raising around the resources is to a large extent an ability to prioritise and also to ensure that the little resources that we have, have the biggest of impacts and also understanding our own specific circumstances. Hence it is our view that, at the provincial level, that is, when we talk about the provincial needs, the provincial sphere is quite important in dealing with some of these very important areas around service delivery.
I would like to thank all the members that have participated for their contributions in this debate. Without any exceptions, the Division of Revenue Bill was supported. Everybody has also supported its provisions, but also important is that that has also been informed by the deliberations in this very House. People did not just come together because they like Treasury or they like the Minister of Finance and therefore we support whatever he says and what he provides. It is because this House has interacted with the different spheres of government and developed an in- depth understanding, through its own oversight, in terms of what needs to be done and what it is in this Division of Revenue Bill that seeks to address the most important question: improving the lives of our people. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.