Chairperson, as the debate is already unfolding, I want to welcome the DA's shift because all along it has been a believer in a free- market system and now it is indeed embracing aspects of a developmental state. Unfortunately, in their embracing of the developmental state argument, their ingredients are unfortunately incorrect. I think there should be a debate, hon Deputy Minister, just to engage on those fundamentals and theories underpinning that particular debate because theirs are more liberal theories and ideologies. We need to then engage on other democratic ones to ask ourselves as to what exactly is working for South Africa.
I do not understand what exactly hon Stephens is saying. Earlier on, he said that delivering free houses in itself is not developmental. Did he visit the people to whom houses were delivered for the past two to four years, and thus checked the qualitative change that has happened in their lives with electricity and refrigerators in their houses? They are now able to sell some frozen items from their houses. One cannot therefore say that is not developmental in nature. It is developmental! [Applause.] I think he is living in another South Africa that I don't know where it is. [Interjections.] We welcome the shift but the ingredients are wrong. [Interjections.] Am I out of order, Chairperson?