Please do not do things that are contrary to the Rules of the NA. That is the main reason why this House is having lots of challenges. They emanate from the rulings of the Presiding Officers.
The Rule is very clear here. Let us read it slowly for you so that you can understand it properly. [Interjections.] It says "In the absence of the Minister". [Interjections.] The Minister is here, why is the Deputy Minister speaking when the Minister is here? He is undermining him. [Interjection.]