Chair, I thank hon members for the mostly thoughtful and constructive comments made in this debate. I want to start off with some responses to what the hon Wilmot James said, because, actually, when I was cut off, I was going to address the very subject of trade diversification.
Let me say to him that I think we need to develop a broad, national consensus about the imperatives to strengthen our trade relations with our established trading partners where we can, while recognising that there is not going to be much growth in those relations in future years. This we must do while building new, dynamic trade and investment relations with the new, emerging economies in the world. I would suggest that, at some stage, perhaps the chairperson of the portfolio committee could think about having an engagement on a number of these matters.
Let me say right at the beginning that I would concur with the Deputy Minister that we have an energetic, dynamic, hardworking and capable Deputy Director-General of Trade and Investment South Africa, or Tisa, in Pumla Ncapayi. However, if there are cases where there are officials in Tisa or any other part of the DTI who are not answering requests, or if there are areas that members have identified where we need to strengthen capacity - in the framework of our approach of continuous improvement - we will engage on those matters.
However, I do think that the issues of trade diversification and trade promotion raise some very, very complicated questions. They raise some questions about what government does and what business does and how we interact and relate one to another. Very often, what happens is that government is able to take advantage of political relations, which we enjoy with many of the most dynamic economies, but then the real trick and the real challenge is to turn that into real commercial opportunities. I am very open to trying to have a discussion. I have invited comments from business. How do we make the activities that we engage in much more effective and much more robust?
Let me just say that we are, of course, very fortunate that we applied for and became a member of the Brics bloc. We came in at a time when we were able to contribute towards the shaping of the intra-Brics co-operation programme. I think that has been something very, very valuable to us. Among other things, we are hoping that we can launch the Brics-led Development Bank, when we host Brics next year.
Some of the areas that we are trying to diversify with, in addition to Brics, include Indonesia. I think we have established a very strong rapport with the Indonesian Minister of Trade, Gita Wirjawan, and it is my intention to go to Indonesia in the course of this year. We are also looking at countries in the Gulf - that is a very important part of our work as well.
We are also working with the Department of International Relations and Co- operation and we are trying to share resources. An example of this was that the former Chief Director of Investment Promotion was appointed as the ambassador, under the auspices of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, to Saudi Arabia.
On the questions of African integration, cross-border problems and so on, let me say that we have recognised them. They have been identified. For example, I was at the World Economic Forum on Africa in Addis Ababa last week and the same issues cropped up again. We raised these in the framework of the trade facilitation discussions in the Southern African Development Community. We have also supported the idea that the World Trade Organisation will engage on issues of trade facilitation and binding rules on trade facilitation. This is subject to the recognition of the fact that in many cases, improvements in trade facilitation do also have resource implications. So, we want to follow that approach, and that is embedded in our approach to regional integration.
When we talk about the Tripartite Free Trade Agreement, or the Continental Free Trade Agreement, which is now under discussion in the African Union, we have recognised the fact that there is too little intra-African trade already. A lot of that has nothing to do with tariffs as such. In fact, the biggest barriers, even within SADC, are no longer tariffs, because we have removed tariffs on a very large part of the trade. There are other regulations, if they are regulatory matters. Often, however, there are inadequate infrastructure and underdeveloped production structures as well. If you are a producer and exporter of cotton, if you like - I was going to say copper - you do not have a huge amount to trade with the producer and exporter of platinum. That is the reality.
So, what we have insisted on and what we have put in the Tripartite Free Trade Agreement is that the approach has to be one of development integration, where we work simultaneously on infrastructure development, cross-border infrastructure and also where we work on issues of co- operating on the promotion of industrial development. That is the common endeavour we have on the African continent. So we, as South Africa, are building integration, and the African continent is going to be part of our own efforts to promote exports of industrial products from South Africa. I think we also have to realise that we are part of a common endeavour and we have got to support industrial development elsewhere.
On the question that was raised about the oil and gas and the boat-building sector, let me just stay that we elevated that into Ipap - not this version, but the previous one - precisely because we saw that there were important gains to be made from this and that national government could actually facilitate the process. In addition to that, we have also seen the possibility of oil and gas servicing taking place on the east coast of the country as a result of gas finds on the east coast of the African continent.
It is not correct to say that Transnet is a dinosaur. I think it is a question of transport and port authorities not seeing this kind of business activity as their core business. My experience is not limited to South Africa. In the best cases, port authorities realised that this kind of activity could create significant and substantial numbers of jobs. It is exactly for that reason that we, as a department, have intervened. I had a very good conversation with the CEO of Transnet, who, I think, understands absolutely the importance and significance of that. So, we are quite optimistic that we can move further forward. By the way, we were given credit in the NCOP debate yesterday for the work the department has done to try and reinstate the Universal African Lines investment in Saldanha Bay.
Again, I would be very happy to have a longer engagement with the hon Oriani-Ambrosini, but I think that we are, respectfully, going to have to disagree. You suggested that we needed a pinch of Thatcherism. [Interjections.] Now, as I understand Thatcherism, it was a degree of growth accompanied by de-industrialisation. However, what happened there was that they said it did not matter if they did not have any industries as long as they had other activities in place, and those other activities were ... well, we now know what they were. They were derivative trading and all sorts of other financial services of a rather unsustainable type.
If we look at the United Kingdom today, the Conservative government of the UK, the heirs of Thatcher, are actually now trying to recover industry, because I think they probably realise that they made a mistake in the past. What we need to do is learn from successful peer countries. What have other emerging economies done? What have the Brazils, Indias and Chinas of this world done? I am afraid to say they did not follow policies with a pinch of Thatcherism! [Laughter.] I think we would be happy to come back and discuss that further.
I take the points made by the hon Mabasa on co-operatives. I also take the points made by the hon Gcwabaza on gambling and I thank the portfolio committee and him, personally, for the work he did on the Gambling Review Commission Report.
Regarding the points raised by the hon Hill-Lewis, I want to say that the judgment in the Labour Court on the case taken up by the Consumer Commissioner has only just been handed down, as we have been sitting here. I have not had the opportunity to study its implications, but I do want to say, absolutely upfront, that we never tried to set up the National Consumer Commissioner to fail. I have never had any personal agenda with the NCC. I want to say that we want the NCC. I am not going to comment on all the issues, because we need to look at the judgment along with these issues to see where we go from here.
Allow me, however, to say that we want an NCC that is active, engaged and pursuing the interests of consumers in this country. We want an NCC that can present well-considered interventions and judgments that are sustainable in law in this country. We want an NCC that is able to create an environment that, with regard to its relationships with its employees, encourages those employees to contribute what they can. We want an NCC that is working according to its mandate, but also in a collegial way, as an institution of the Council of Trade and Industry Institutions. We want an NCC that is using its resources in such a way that it creates a basis for us to be able to go to National Treasury and ask for more funding. All of that is our objective. I think perhaps we need to find another opportunity and certainly, when I have looked at the judgment, we will see where we go from there.
Finally, let me just say to the hon Ferguson - I forgot to comment on her point - yes, we are very happy to be building relations with Lusophone countries. As a matter of fact, having lived in Mozambique for 11 years, eu falo portugus [I speak Portuguese]. It is actually a great asset to me in my interactions with my counterparts in Angola, Mozambique and Brazil, among other places. We are working with those countries, not because they are Lusophone countries as such, but because they are important economies in their own right.
Thank you very much, everybody. We look forward to further engagements with the portfolio committee, and I thank everyone for the support given to this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.