House Chairperson, let me thank all the members for their inputs and their support on this Budget Vote.
When I was saying happy birthday to intando yeningi [democracy], I forgot to say happy birthday to Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, who also worked previously to lead this organisation. Happy birthday, Lindi. She did apologise and we will see her later when we meet at the afterparty. [Laughter.]
Let me also thank hon Burgess, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on State Security, for the very kind words to our officers - very hardworking and loyal officers - because it is very rare that they are actually recognised publicly for the work they are committed to in securing our nation. Once again, thank you very much. [Applause.] I have noted your concern about what you call traitors and people who are not patriots, but I know all the members here are very patriotic - that is why they are called "honourable". Honestly, I hope that through your actions and missions, you will not condone the activity which promotes traitors, including your consideration of the legislation.
The hon members of the DA, Mr D J Stubbe, is very well versed in matters pertaining to intelligence. We have noted his input and concern about my busy international schedule which have, at times, caused me to be absent in some meetings of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, JSCI, but I am present at most of them where I am invited. But let me just stress to my colleagues that my absence basically is due to work we are doing in Africa, and it is not a holiday. It is hard work, which is part of the programme of action of this government to ensure a better Africa and a safer world. It is part of that work where we ensure that we reduce the conflicts, because we know that when there are conflicts in Africa, we will get an influx into our country as a result. So, we have to prevent those conflicts and contribute to the creation of a safer Africa.
I now come to the issue of progress reports in the committee and, in particular, the fire which happened in Durban. I understand that the director-general did commit to the JSCI that they will come back to this matter within a month, including those break-ins which happened in some of our offices - it was also raised by other members of the committee. But, in short, regarding the fire in Durban, we have the preliminary report, and we also reported to the JSCI the investigations conducted by the fire department of Durban Metro and the police. All indications are that it was an electrical fault. There was no foul play in this activity, but I will send a team from the department to give a comprehensive report to the JSCI.
He also reminded us that we reported previously on the investigation we were doing in some of the agencies, particularly the Group Life Scheme. If you remember, we were tasked to do an investigation into the extent of the participation of our members in that corruption scheme. The former director- general, Ambassador M J Maqetuka, led that investigation and could not find any substantial things that warrant action beyond just warnings to our members.
The crux of the matter is that the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, and the police are continuing those investigations. I don't think we should therefore interfere with the process of investigation and say, let them rush to court because these fraud cases are quite complicated, people take time to plan them. When you go to court, you must produce evidence, and proper evidence, so that you can have a successful prosecution.
I really sympathise with the hon Koornhof; I know him as a very kind and honourable member. I understand fully that he relies mainly on the media, because he does not participate in the oversight committee. I will also say, as an intelligence community, we don't rely on the media, we rely on facts and true intelligence - verified intelligence - when taking actions, because most of the things which are reported in the media are far from any truth on what the state of affairs in our own environment is. But let me also remind the hon member - because it is fair to raise such concerns - that there is sympathy for some members who are not participating in the JSCI, Cope is allowed to participate in the JSCI. The real problem is that Cope is still fighting. Mr Shilowa was appointed as a member and they have not been able to replace Shilowa in the JSCI. So, if you want the intelligence community to go and assist to resolve this matter, unfortunately we can't because we don't participate in such political parties' political activities.
A number of hon members have raised matters pertaining to the legislation which is before the committees of Parliament, the first one being the Protection of State Information Bill, not the secrecy bill; it is the Protection of State Information Bill which is currently before the NCOP. Some members are still crying about the public interest defence clause. They are just saying this because the opposition is saying so, despite the majority of South Africans and an overwhelming number of members of the National Assembly disagreeing with them on this matter.
I would really like to get into this, because the court is in Parliament and not in the Ministry anymore. We have explained our position as the department and the Ministry and we still say that we are not opposing any amendments that will improve the effectiveness and the constitutionality of the Bill. But we are totally against any measures that will make the Bill unworkable and useless and which will allow the work of foreign spies and espionage peddlers to thrive in South Africa. We remain quite open to any progressive suggestions to improve these other aspects of the Bill.
I won't comment on the General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill; others really are playing very cheap party-political games on this matter. My understanding of this matter is under the National Assembly. We have explained ourselves on several occasions to the committee and now the committee is in the process of considering the Bill. If you want us to go back to the committee and explain further, we will do so as well as debate the Bill in the House again.
A number of members have touched on the fact that we should ensure that our intelligence officers are not partisan and that we don't use the intelligence for party-political processes. I fully agree with you in this regard. To illustrate this fact, I would like to quote for the members what President Zuma said exactly one month ago, when he was addressing all these intelligence officers in our headquarters. I quote:
The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa enjoins the state security agencies to assist government efforts in ensuring that South Africans as individuals and as a nation live as equals in peace and harmony and are free from fear and want ...
This is as Mr Burgess has quoted.
The President continued to say:
Your task is therefore a critical one as it is not about serving narrow personal or partisan interests, but those of the entire nation. The Constitution of the Republic is also very explicit with regards to the mandate of our security services.
It states that the security services must act, teach and require their members to act in accordance with the Constitution and the law, including customary international law and international agreements binding on the Republic. The Constitution also states explicitly that no member of any security service may obey a manifestly illegal order.
In addition, the security services are barred from undertaking any work that may prejudice a legitimate political party or which promotes, in a partisan manner, any interest of a political party.
Our progressive Constitution also directs that there be oversight to ensure transparency and accountability. Multi-party parliamentary committees have oversight of all security services in a manner determined by national legislation or the rules and orders of Parliament.
There are enough checks and balances to ensure that, in undertaking the necessary work of protecting national security and making the population feel and be safe, we uphold the Constitution at all times.
These are the words of President Zuma while addressing us on the National Intelligence Service Day. Thank you very much, House Chairperson. We really plead for the support of our Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.